Linux future

[ilia_kr]

I really dougt the bright future of linux as a home desktop, let me explain why:

inspite of being very powerfull OS, it is very hard to configure. Only true enthuziasts and pros have enough nerves and time to make it work as they need, while most people haven't. For everyday routine people need fust, easy to operate and eye catchy OS such as WinXP. Thay don't need to spent several hours learning and tring to change Linux' desktop resolution from 640x460 to something else from the command line; the same about enabling folder sharing with samba and plenty of other annoing malfunctions with simple programs like XMMS, FireFox ect'.

 

I say this because i have a little experience with linux (Mandriva, Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora) and i like playing it as a hobby (i'm still so noob!!!).

 

Prove me that i'm wrong...

[Guest Adriano1]

First: Nice troll.

Second... No, there's no second. If you want to fight, go to a boxing club. If you want an argument, go to Law school. This is a forum where we give help.

 

I'm not here to satisfy your sense of entitlement about what Linux can or cannot do. If you think it's difficult, fine. I find Windows more difficult, having had at least ten years to learn to use it. But to each its own. If mandriva is difficult for you, well, tough. Shame you don't tell us what was the problem with it. We might have been able to solve it.

[Ixthusdan]

Proving you are wrong is not necessary, sense you have not proven that you are right! You are, however, entitled to your opinion.

 

The xp desktop is reasonably easy to work with. In my opinion, it is still not as nice as win98SE. But the incident of reported errors is still there, as in any desktop. And if it is noetworked, even with server 2003 (designed for it) there are numerous problems that just pop up and need resolving. Of course, xp users call me, a technoid, to solve them. From the perspective you state, I see no difference.

 

Where there is a difference is what linux is up to vs what microsoft is up to. Take Trusted Computing, a microsoft bauble. It sounds like it is a good way to standardize an industry and lock down virus attacks. But what it actually means is that Microsoft will controll all hardware and software, and the internet. Now, I would be really stupid to let a company like microsoft take over like that. Linux? Well, we have a new idea. It's called "standards" People need to agree. Viruses? Don't run a computer like a house without walls! Microsoft looks toward trapping users. Linux looks towards freeing users. From my perspective, there is just no comparison.

[arctic]

okay... i prove you wrong. :D

 

i agree that linux systems are not heaven, but they aren't hell either. just like mac and windows, they do have their strengths and weaknesses. and it very much depends on three things if linux will be a pleasure or a frustration for the average computer user:

 

1. the hardware you are using. some hardware combination will not give you any problems at all (like my desktop computers e.g. (laptops are a different thing)) and other combinations will result in certain disaster. but you never know exactly which hardware will make your linux-journey a horror-trip. but then, the same can happen in windows and mac. i do know of some hardware that does not work with my mac and other hardware that does not work with my windows boxes but with linux.

 

2. what do you want the system to do? it very much depends on what you want to achieve with your box. some things can be done without a problem in linux, some are more of a hassle. but then, server administration is e.g. easier and more secure with linux systems than with microsoft systems imho.

 

3. what distro are you using? different distros behave differently. mandriva has e.g. an installer that is way better than the windows installers since win3.1 and its partitioning tool is definitely one of the best. but a gentoo or debian install is a totally different thing. then there are system administration tools. some distros ship with good tools, some, like slackware want you to configure all the stuff editing scripts and using the command line. i agree, not all distros are suiteable for the non-geeks every day use but there are distros that definitely are playing in the same league as win xp or mac osx (if it were not so, i wouldn't do all my important work in linux).

 

oh... and about changing screen resolutions: almost every distro has an easy tool for that these days.

 

but calling win xp an eye-catchy operating system is imho an insult to aesthetics. it still looks like fisher-price.

[AussieJohn]

Well said Adriano.

We can do without this kind of discussion. It certainly does NOT contribute to the future Of Mandriva or Linux or to members of this MUB.

 

John.

[sellis]

Adriano, I don't believe that ilia is a troll, as such. I too find the same frustrations with configuration. No "average windows user" would have put up with 2 evenings worth of work just to get his new printer to work.

 

However, I'm also not as pessimistic about the future as ilia. The progress in the last couple of years has been astounding. The remaining configuration problems are exactly the kind of thing that would not be a problem in a coporate/government environment, as your IT department would solve them once and roll them out office-wide.

 

Plus, with major people like IBM in the Linux camp, and governments like Brazil getting involved, I think we will continue to see the pace of improvement ramp up.

 

Of course, none of this helps you, now, so I'll shut up at this point...

[arctic]

First: Nice troll.

Second... No, there's no second. If you want to fight, go to a boxing club. If you want an argument, go to Law school. This is a forum where we give help.

nah,, that is no trolling. just a personal point of view that we can/should talk about in a friendly way. calling someone a troll only because he wants to discuss the weaknesses of linux is imho a bit unfair. ;)

[scarecrow]

Things are simple. Linux IS easy, unless you expect a silly face grabbing your hand and guiding you doing silly things whenever you want to install nonsence AAA. If you DO need such guidance, then Linux is not for you, plain and simple.

But anyone with vague knowledge about computing who has tried Linux, has used Windows again because he has not found "easy" substitutes for a few windows programs, and nothing more than that.

The only windows programs I really miss under Linux are Visio (it runs OK under Wine, anyway...) and Quark Xpress (Scribus is at first sight a good alternative, but it doesn't work well with UTF-8, and unlike Quark it's not pluggable- yet). Unfortunately Quark does not work well either under Wine or Crossover Office, and VMWare is expensive...

[Guest Adriano1]

I didn't mean to say he's a troll, just that his question is trolling (or flamebait, as one wishes). It's almost the same, yes. If /when I want to discuss Linux weaknesses constructively I try to make coherent points. This wasn't it.

Edited June 11, 2005 by Adriano

[linux_learner]

i take it you've never struggled with windows. everything just worked. thats nice. what about times when you install a driver that supposed to work and it causes a BSOD? what about drivers becomming corrupt? driver conflicts? no? never had any of these? must be nice indeed.

 

linux isnt any more difficult than windows, but it is different. do not confuse difference with difficulty.

[arctic]

I didn't mean to say he's a troll, just that his question is trolling (or flamebait, as one wishes). It's almost the same, yes. If /when I want to discuss Linux weaknesses constructively I try to make coherent points. This wasn't it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

okay. :) then we wait for ilia to add some information, pointing out the weaknesses and we have a nice discussion.

[Jet2k5]

First of all who ever said that Linux would not be on Desktop systems in completely wrong. I'm sorry to say, but someday your going to knocked off that cloud that you are on.

 

Have you not been paying attention to current news? PS3 is going to be shipping an hdd with Linux PRE-INSTALLED. That is P-R-E I-N-S-T-A-L-L-E-D. Linux has been making outstanding improvements in the world. Goverments are starting to look more into Linux for their computers. The U.S Health department recently made a HUGE multi-billion deal with Novell ( Makers of SUSE ). Linux is starting to be known to the world. Micheal Dell ( Owner and founder of Dell systems) Recently bought a crapload I think 11 million dollars worth of Red-Hat stock. Linux is going to be on desktops. Wether it's 1 year from now, 2 years from now or 20 years from now. I know that Linux is going to be a HUGE threat to microsoft in the future. Starting now, with this whole ps3 deal.

 

To me and I mean this in no offence, I feel like you haven't been able to really get Linux working on your box. This is really obsurd. I know a lot of people believe that Linux won't make it, but those are people that have no hope :) I would love to be able to see where Linux might take MS off the market, which can be possible. But I don't know if it will.

 

I personally had a few issues with Windows. I remember when the Blaster Virus came out, when I tried to conect to the internet it would not last me more than 30 seconds of a connection before my computer restarted. Do you know how frustrating it is to see something like that? Just because of some * no offence to ANYBODY * fat-lonely geek who got bored? I don't know but Linux is a great desktop. The point of Linux not having wild viruses and spyware solves most of my problems.

 

Another thing, yes some hardware doesn't work with Linux. But please remember that Linux is OPEN SOURCE so that means that it's up to good developers to make the Linux kernel work with certain hardware. They don't go out and buy every single mobo in the world and make it work on Linux. They write the kernel to stuff that comes to them, and occationally probably doing what I just mentioned. But I'm probably wrong on this.

 

Open source is young, it's up to people to write programs for us ( unless you know how to ). The number one reason that people go back to windows after using linux is because they don't find an equivalent to aim. Which I was able to find within 3 minutes of ever having my first Linux desktop.

 

I think what I'm trying to say is that people are scared of Linux because they aren't being told what to do, which is what windows does. They see Linux and they can't gasp the freedom it has. The freedom to download just about every program out there for FREE instead of having to buy a monthly membership? I don't know but this for some reason really pissed me off. I'm sorry I think I should get off now.

 

If I don't make any sence I am deeply sorry, but there is soo much information out there that shows Linux as an on going improvement. It's a moving train, that sooner or later Microsoft is going to have to face dead on. If not the world :)

 

 

 

Oh yeah about the configuration being hard. Hmm look at Linspire. Everyday more and more scripts are enhaced/made to improve this, and make this easier on the user. And for gentoo, dude they are coming out with a freaking GUI install. What the heck can be sweeter than that? ArchLinux is another once that you configure from a command line. They now have a live cd that does it pretty much for you.

Edited June 11, 2005 by Jet2k5

[Guest Adriano1]

I personally had a few issues with Windows. I remember when the Blaster Virus came out, when I tried to conect to the internet it would not last me more than 30 seconds of a connection before my computer restarted. Do you know how frustrating it is to see something like that? Just because of some * no offence to ANYBODY * fat-lonely geek who got bored?

 

Oh, offend the fat (or skinny) bored bstrds who did that all you like. I'll cheer! I really, really despise that kind of people. "Experimenting", yeah, sure.

[Jet2k5]

Lol, he was crying his butt of when he got sent to court. There is no point of writing viruses really, the flash they show their colors and within a week or so they are tamed , distroyed and it's history. The only thing that is not history is the FBI chasing you.

[fangbite]

Since I run and maintain computers for a living right now, I'd have to say that windows causes as much problems as linux does. The only difference is that windows has a more renowned IT support than linux. This means that an old lady who can't figure out how to run their program only has to go as far as little timmy next door to get the solution. Then she's happy. With linux however, little timmy don't know so it seems that Linux is so full of problems that its not worth taking.

 

"Funny" thing happened the other day.

 

I have this guy at work who everyday comes to me with yet another problem to fix. Spyware, internet explorer crashing, disk not being read etc etc etc. So I set him up with a live cd of freeduc linux (work at a school) to see what he thinks. After a day of using it, he's only come up with one problem. He couldn't see his favorite website (I didn't properly configure something). That was enough for him to tell me to pack it up and give him back windows. I fixed the problem but he said "No I want my old windows back". A few days later I asked him if he had any problems with anything else. He told me no.

 

So the thing I want to know is why he can sit through hours of headaches with windows, but with one problem which was my fault in linux he can't forgive. People have comfort zones. If you've been codled with windows for all your life, then even if there are 100 problems you face everyday, then who cares, its your comfort zone. However if you leave that comfort zone and a problem occurs, then you go back to your old problems knowing that its your comfort zone. Now if that made any sense, I should go into politics right now.