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Linux future


ilia_kr
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Side note. Try wiping your computer and installing XP from scratch with a real XP CD from the store. Its not so easy either, especially if you have unusual hardware that isnt supported on disk.

 

Windows is 'easy' because it comes preinstalled.

 

Linux is getting easier.

 

why dont you go out and contribute to a project and help make it easier? much more productive than whining on a forum.

 

iphitus.

Edited by iphitus
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Very good point there iphitus. Another thing that comes to mind is, if you use windows you genenerally don't learn crap about your computer. I have a friend that calls himself a computer geek, but he can't even tell what brand of processor her has. He uses windows. Windows keeps things hidden, not allowing you to take the full wiff of the problem.

 

I just think that by using Linux you learn a lot more about yoru system, and how it works. Right now I'm picking up to program with python. If I was on windows I don't think that I could ever see mysel learning a programming language. Linux is very educational. Because it opens up a lot of things for you to view and watch.

 

I don't know, but I can't be without my Linux box. It's part of my life almost. Everywhere I go and there is computers I ask if they use Linux. lol, I guess it has just been such a great experience for me.

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For this discussion, I think you need to get out of the US and European centric point of view. Linux is doing well in other nations. In fact, I've seen Linux preinstalled computers, be it laptops or desktops in local computer stores and supermarkets in Indonesia. I have never seen this happened in the States. Why? For the US$ 100 you spend just for Windows, you can either upgrade the computer to almost 150% the capacity (double the HD, memory, or add a DVDRW) or live comfortably for 2-3 weeks.

 

Of course, Indonesia is piracy heaven, so if you go to a local computer mall, you will see tons of pirated Windows preinstalled, even though there is a huge sticker in front saying "We only install genuine Microsoft products" :)

 

So I believe that Linux will make headways faster in the have-nots nations, which outnumber the haves nations in terms of number and populations.

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people confuse me. they complain about a difficult one-time install /configuration process, but would put up with daily adware/virus/trojan scans that would take up to maybe 2 hours.

 

i personally think the spyware/virus scans take much more effort. seriously, maintaining windows is too difficult for me. I get embarassed too many times when people approach me for windows maintenance advice, when i can only say, "I have absolutely no idea. I use linux, and I don't have to do that."

 

Then they ask, "what do you do to maintain linux then? Virus scanners? disk defragmenting? registry optimization?" I answer, "er, nothing."

Edited by arthur
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DragonMage:

 

Hehe that seems like a good thing that is happenening over there.

 

Anyhow the U.S is also changing, like I said the U.S Health Department just started switching computers to Linux. Not to mention the CDC , Center for Disease Control. They are huge, and them using Linux is even bigger. I don't know if this guy lives on a private island of Nicaragua or what, but you need to catch up on some Open Source news before you make such statements. You are however entitled to your opinion, which I think no one agrees and has proven you wrong.

Edited by Jet2k5
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Install-wise, Mandy and Ubuntu have been easier (and quicker) than Windows. I'll agree that its more difficult to configure than Windows, but the difference (for me, as a non-techie type) is being able to configure without going for dodgy 3rd party applications. Change the taskbar? Change window decorations? You rarely see a desktop that is exactly the same with KDE/GNOME, but look at 'desktop' thread on a non-linux site and 90% of the time, people haven't dared to bother changing anything aside from their wallpaper. It would be nice if Easy Urpmi had a really simple configuration client for Mandy (so noobs could just choose 'the nearest mirror') but thats just a matter of time I guess..and as the Windows equivalent only lets you download updates for MS software...

 

Other people have said this but XP is not 'eye-catching' - the only thing I miss is the option to 'hide' the system tray icons easily (though thats probably because people have too many!). Windows decorations are horrible (kinda lumpy with big ugly buttons), Start button is ugly (and difficult to change), clock looks 80's, Menu's take up too much screen estate (first thing I used to change) and the 'grid' which the icons can be set to is way too near the border etc.

 

Change screen resolutions? How is that more difficult? In Mandy: Config Computer-> Hardware-> Change Screen Res. In Windows (off the top of my head): Control Panel->Display->Appearance(?).

 

Can't say I use XMMS (I like the jukeboxes on Amarok and Rhythmbox), but Firefox has been beautifully stable for me whether using the mandrake versions or the Moz binaries . I used to be able to crash IE at least once a session, but Firefox is boring - I can count the number of times its buggered up on me on two hands in 5-6 months.

 

Don't get me wrong, Mandy has made me foam-at-the-mouth mad loads of times (enough to try MS again), but Windows irritates me from the first second and just gets worse. I may miss some of the great applications on Windows, but its that or straight-jacketed, defragging, virus-scanning, spyware-scanning, randomly-crashing hell for me.

 

*nods to all the helpful people on here*

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I'm going to share my expierence with my new computer! Also this was a pc that came with "Made for windows XP"

 

First off windows, i install a fresh (pirated) version of windows xp professional with SP2.

 

During the install there was a weird blinking, and it ended up crashing half way through it for some reason. So i stuck in my old monitor from my last pc to get the install done, once the installation was done i'm going to want some drivers right? Wrong, windows xp didn't even detect my ethernet card, sooo i go through to my sisters room to use her pc and download drivers. It took me 5 hours to find the drivers! So i install them, turn off the computer unplug the old monitor and plug in the new one. Boot up everything is ok now.

 

I then download Debian sarge net install, everything is going fine until it doesn't detect my ethernet card. So i hop on into #debian on freenode and i met a nice guy called Mayhem and he told me to "modprobe forcedeth" i did so and my ethernet card is now working and the net install worked very well! That's what i love about linux if something doesn't work there usually is a way to get it working. I had no sound on first boot, i ran alsaconf sound card wasn't detected. I then upgraded my kernel to 2.6.11 then ran alsaconf, sound card now detected. I downloaded the nvidia drivers installed them fine thanks to a great guide http://home.comcast.net/~andrex/Debian-nVidia/debian.html .

 

So i would say linux was easier to install. If you don't mind borrowing someone elses pc and searching for drivers for 5 hours then i guess windows would be easier. I mean what would i have done if i never had another monitor or pc? Linux has a very bright future if you ask me, slowely more and more companys are making drivers available for linux, it's only a matter of time. Oh and it took me about 20mins to peel that "made for windows xp" sticker off too. :angry:

Edited by Lowe
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people confuse me. they complain about a difficult one-time install /configuration process, but would put up with daily adware/virus/trojan scans that would take up to maybe 2 hours.

 

i personally think the spyware/virus scans take much more effort. seriously, maintaining windows is too difficult for me.  I get embarassed too many times when people approach me for windows maintenance advice, when i can only say, "I have absolutely no idea. I use linux, and I don't have to do that."

 

Then they ask, "what do you do to maintain linux then? Virus scanners? disk defragmenting? registry optimization?" I answer, "er, nothing."

 

Exactly my point.

 

I like the configuration process the way it is. I remember installing Redhat 7.1 and believe me that took some configuration. Mandrake 10.2 found and installed everything on my system correctly. Even my HP all in one. Linux is perfect these days. I am afraid the easier we make it the more insecure it will become. The new users just get upset when they have to learn something new. Like how to unzip or unrar a file from command line instead of double click.

 

Dakota

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This thread has received faaaar more attention than it warrants IMHO.

 

It's simple: if you don't like Linux, don't use it! Nobody is forcing you. If you like having to worry about viruses, security issues, spyware, interfaces that look like they were designed by Fisher Price, then use Windows. It's perfect for you.

 

Linux has a future on the desktop. Look at all the government agencies around the world that have switched to it. Look at the large companies like IBM, Novell and HP that are pushing it. Look at the amount of developers, a huge number that shadow the amount of MS developers, working on it.

 

It's not perhaps going to take over - it's inevitable. It might not be in the form we're used to (think OSX, as example), but it has been proven to be the best approach to an operating system by people who know far more about the subject than you or I.

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i think we have talked enough about the install-procedure... what about this one?

For everyday routine people need fast, easy to operate and eye catchy OS such as WinXP.

is windows so much faster than linux? is the windows-desktop more eye-catchy and easy to use than one of the dozen linux desktops (kde, gnome, windowmaker, fluxbox, xfce, fvwm,...)? i think this is the most important point for ilia.

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Well one of the many reasons i switched to linux was for speed, and it is indeed faster for me at least. The most important thing is to have a decent amount of ram, when i had 256mb ram i'll admit gnome was quite slow, however xfce on the otherhand was like lightning. I now have 1GB ram, and i now find xfce slow and gnome to be really fast! WinXP has a horrible interface, yet another reason i left the windows world, those jaggy looking icons and fisher price interface just don't cut it for me. I let my mum use my pc and she really likes gnome, she finds it really easy to use and she loves firefox! The only bit she had a problem with was finding the files she downloaded, so i put a link to her home folder on the desktop so she could easily browse her files and she still can't believe debian is completely free. :cheesy:

 

My sisters computer is now completely linux aswell, since last night and she really is loving how fast it is. Since it's my old computer i installed xfce for her because like i said gnome was a tad slow with 256mb ram, the only problem she is having with it is not being able to view peoples webcams on MSN but im sure something will pop up one day. If my mum and sister can use debian, anyone can. (My sister is 14 btw.)

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My friend switched to Linux for Speed, Stability and Appearance.

 

I didnt try and persuade him, he just got sick of windows, he couldnt leave his computer on overnight without it crashing, and had to reboot every few hours because of memory leaks. He isnt a foolish user either, spyware wasnt an issue and his virus software was up to date. He has reformatted multiple times, but it began to annoy him that he had to reformat often.

 

He hasnt looked back. He has what he wants, Linux runs faster, is more interactive, is definitely more stable, and he is able to theme it without worrying about a decline in the past two criteria.

 

A second friend of mine has also asked the same of me, he is sick of windows.

 

On an interesting note, about this time last year, in a class at school, I did a presentation on Linux with two of my friends to the class. I left the teacher with a copy of PCLinuxOS.

 

Two weeks ago, I got word from a friend of mine in a lower yearlevel, that he has offered to install Linux on anyone in that year level's laptop becaue it is 'more stable and more secure'. I have yet to see the email that he sent, but I'm quite frankly rapt that he has gone ahead and played with Linux, seen the light and is now trying to spread it.

 

iphitus

Edited by iphitus
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First: Nice troll.

Second... No, there's no second. If you want to fight, go to a boxing club. If you want an argument, go to Law school. This is a forum where we give help.

 

I'm not here to satisfy your sense of entitlement about what Linux can or cannot do. If you think it's difficult, fine. I find Windows more difficult, having had at least ten years to learn to use it. But to each its own. If mandriva is difficult for you, well, tough. Shame you don't tell us what was the problem with it. We might have been able to solve it.

 

First: i'm not tring to offend anyone;

Second: i think it is legal to express my own opinion

 

Though i had some problems with Mandriva, i eventually managed to solve them with or withuot forum's help (thank again for all who helped me). I said, that i'm using linux at home too, so there is no reason for you to feel offended.

Are we cool now?

 

You guys took it really personally, well maybe it is my foult. All i wanted to say is that Linux differs from more familiar OSes like WinXP. The topic is about it's usability at home, not at any other places. More ower, i study computer science, i know a bit about computers and i'm open towards new ideas.

 

The main problem with Linux, as i see it, is a huge number of distros and the lack of organized support for them. Every distro works a little bit different from another, the help that you can get from the web isn't allways what you are looking for and not necessarily suits your own distro. Some times the help is not written so good or even professional, that is why you should know what are you going to do.

 

I have a little brother who learns in a school. He cant use Linux system as i can, and he does not want. Why would he? Everything he needs runs pretty good at XP.

 

May be in future all that is going to be changed, and that is good. In my opinion Linux needs standatization, so it will be easy to develop for or operate different distros.

In order to gain that, you need a strong financial support, and we all know where all that leads (Microsoft).

 

What do you think?

Edited by ilia_kr
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Guest Adriano1

... I'm no attorney-at-law, I won't sue you for your opinions. But there are ways of saying them that don't exactly endear people. If you ask something, as you did, in a defiant "prove me wrong" way, I'll tell you, as I did, "I don't need to". I don't feel offended. I feel "yet another aggressive question".

 

We're cool by me. And I notice that the people of the board have turned what could have been a (short lived, we do have mods) flamewar into a useful account of experiences. A cheer to you all :)

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