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Gowator

What is wrong with Linux?

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MojoWorld (generates entire planets)

How can anyone compete with that?! :D

:lol: ...really! What would that cost? :o

MojoWorld costs around $250 US.

 

A friend I got looking at Blender3D and it looks like a full blown 3D CGI app now. I originally thought it was for doing morphs (morph A into B sort of thing). The Python scripts are making it look very interesting, indeed. It does polygon meshes, NURBS, animation, and much, much more. Current version is 2.33a, and not only has its own internal render engine, but can export to Yafray and Renderman (Pixar) among others. The linux version has both Static (no hardware OpenGL), and Dynamic (hardware OpenGL). I have the dynamic build running in Mandrake 10.0 CE Powerpack just as sweet as can be.

 

The 'fun' will be to see if we can port the Poser stuff to Blender, and I am talking about figures, conforming clothing, sets/scenes, props, etc., and make them work properly.

 

The reason I brought up this 3D CGI thing in here, is that those companies' attitudes do have bearing on this topic.

 

As much as I would truly love to be able to do all of this in Linux, it is impossible for now (at least for me).

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good stuff

sarissi.... music mixing (semi professional) is the same.... I hate doing it but I keep having to use winBlows machines for friends who are recording...

 

darkelve> yep exactly .... thats what Roland said earlier...

 

wget xxxxxx

rpm blah blah

cat qwerrty /etc/yourconfig.conf

/etc/init.d/yourservice start

 

its consistent, gives feedback if it doesnt work etc...

thats why CLI must always be an option and why conf files in plain text are best etc.

 

lawsonrc....

Bah you sound like John Irving....talk about a pessimist... but thats what we mean... people might hate it, be suspicous then like Roland and darkelve say this magically gives feedback and there problem is fixed...

 

one of the newer members was asking today how us old timers do it....

well 50% of the time the answer to the problem is right in front of you if you use the CLI.... It might be a little hard to work out but then thats where experience comes in.... but most errors are right in front of you....

 

thats why sometimes its hard getting info out of people with problems...but we persist saying type this!!!!

 

also the fact every command has a CLI equivalent is why linux all fits together...

 

you can type

lame wav.wav wav.mp3 and rip a wave to mp3 or oggenc or bladeenc or....

OR you can use a choice of GUI app that makes these commands for you...

 

same to extract from the CD and burn to the CD....

ALL of this can be done from the CLI so I could make a script, send it you and it would repeat the job....

 

this is the very flexibility of linux... thats why it needs a CLI alternative so other programs can use it...

 

in windows for instance you need each program to be complete ... it duplicates the functionality of other programs, its called a monolithic model...

in nix its lots of small parts that can be strung together.... the only thing changing is the interface and auto choices etc...

 

this is whats RIGHT with linux.... and what I wanna keep.... not loose becuase of divergence and fancy file formats in suse....

 

 

erm on the IOT no my laptop is a fujitsu seimens and still running linspire!

This is coming from suse Pro 9.1 64 bit .... its probably closer to the people who just want intenet and wordproc but linspire would be as good for them.... maybe better becuase they have the option to install more from click n run (which FUD apart is 90% FREE)

personally if this is what people want Id say get a Mac!

if you want to learn and play a bit deeper start with Mandrake or Deb stable installed fron kanotix ... and progresss to gentoo/deb sid/slack at your own pace ...

 

now where did I put that dragonfly CD ....

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what's wrong with linux? that's simple!

 

it doesn't ask me if it's ok if it crashes!

 

:jester:

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My perception is that now the vast majority of computer users started using Windows and Mac with either Win98SE or even WinXP and have probably never heard of DOS or command lines, and would still be frightened by them if they heard about it for Linux.

 

I think you guys forget just how recent the advent of desktop computers is and underestimate how it is changing the workplace. It's becoming an all pervasive tool that everybody needs and needs to be familiar with, even the guy stacking the shelves is using one instead of writing up stock sheets. (I do not mean anything disparaging by that just the simple observation that instead of writing out sheets the info is now entered on a hand held computer) its only recently that such technology has been viable.

 

Microsoft was the first and undoubtedly the success of the pc is down to them but they will pay the price of being the first as they take their market for granted. They used to think about the end user saw a potential market and went after it. Now they see their customers as a cash cow and try to prevent them having a choice rather thinking about what they want.

 

What is wrong with Linux is that they are not planning ahead to who the likely end user is likely to be. For a distribution to be commercially successful it has to look at the end user.

 

Business users are everything from large coprporations to one or two man businesses. The biggest growth sector -at least in the U.K. is the small to medium enterprise who start out using, guess what desk top computers and then get to the point where they need a server, networking, mobile computing and so it goes. If you don't believe me have a look at the smaller companies indexes not just the footsie 100. (or the american equivalent).

 

It's the same with games, catch the kids and you have a customer for life. If linux is no good for games then they are ignoring a large part of the market and more importantly future users and decision makers.

 

Ten to fifteen years ago a lot of now senior executives were still at school or college and would be vaguely aware of computers leaving them to the nerds, go back another ten or fifteen years and you are talking about people who remember black and white televisions. Even five years ago doing business on line was so frustrating that most people wouldn't bother.

 

I think its the same for business users, the big boys are already sown up and its a moot point whether it is worth the time and effort going after their business, go for the smaller guy and grow with them.

 

I suppose the real problem is how do you do that and still retain that which makes linux special.

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Gmac, you have hit most right on the head. Microsoft wrote the OS and probably BASIC interpreters and such for the TRS-80 models 1, 2, 3, and 4. That goes back before the IBM Personal Computer (so-called, since it was never intended by IBM for Individuals. Just Small Businesses.).

 

I remember drooling over advertisements for the Imsai Altair 8080 (see War Games, with Matthew Broderick), when it was in Kit form and very new on the market. I also remember drooling over the TRS-80 Models 1, 3, 4, 4P, Commodore Executive Portable (C64), Heathkit H8, DEC PDP-11 in Kit form, and many others.

 

IBM and Microsoft actually brought some order out of the 'personal' and home computer markets' Chaos of propietary systems with the PC's popularity. Not all that far back. Heck MS-DOS only goes back to the late 1980s at best, if my recollection is anywhere near corect.

 

Be thankfull that Linux is not stuck in a text connsole, and maybe we will get a more unified method for installation of software and drivers across distros.

 

Remember that if Linux were only a single Distro, then Microsoft would have destroyed it by now. The seeming 'Chaos' of Distros and such, is the great Strength of Linux, cause everyone has different needs.

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Microsoft saw a potential market and grabbed it now they are trying to keep it except now they have competition, they more they knock linux the more people will ask what it is.

 

There is nothing wrong with linux but I think those who would see it mainstream and want to make a living out of selling their services need to think more about who would use and will be likely to buy in the future. Take a lesson from microsoft and go for fresh markets rather than head butt the big guys. It's not about Linux its about what you want the computer to do and what potential customers want.

 

Most of the IT professionals I came across never ask how do you use your computer, they concentrate on what they want to sell and forget who they are talking to. Prattling on about thin client servers and wireless networking means nothing to someone who wants his or her half dozen computers to be able to talk to each other and have the rep at the other end of the country being able to get his e-mail, its also patronizing. Tailor your language to the audience, they are not stupid just not as interested in computers as you are.

 

Remember that if Linux were only a single Distro, then Microsoft would have destroyed it by now. The seeming 'Chaos' of Distros and such, is the great Strength of Linux, cause everyone has different needs

 

That's very true I think. Microsoft wants everybody to adapt to them rather than adapting to their customer. Bad business strategy.

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excuse me here, but can we get back on the subject? This has nothing to do with peoples needs, as far as what an OS offers :zzz: That convo is old and there has been enough threads/discussions about that already.

 

This is about how it works, and what linux can/should do to get better in configuration standards/tools. Or, am I wrong Gowator? It's your thread.

 

Remember that if Linux were only a single Distro, then Microsoft would have destroyed it by now. The seeming 'Chaos' of Distros and such, is the great Strength of Linux, cause everyone has different needs
Completely wrong! Linux is what it is because of the people, because it is OpenSource. M$ could not, and can not destroy the people. As pointed out earlier in the thread, it was when people started thinking they could/should sell linux is when the chaos started (sell as in personalized/distro/tools so to charge $)

 

It is not a strength but a weakness. Look at PCLOS. Have you used it next to an updated ML-9.2? Puts it to shame. What does a mandrake based distro that actually works, tools and all media and other goodies at install, do for mandrake? ;) What did Mandrake do for Red Hat? ;) Oh yeah, we have Fedora Core 2 now ;)

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bvc, I agree with a lot of your points on this topic but you can't put the "money" geni back in the bottle. It just isn't going to happen, and as many governments, the U.S. judiciary and many companies start looking at Linux there will be those looking to profit because of it. And when you look at what Red Hat (5% total earning dedicated to OSS projects), IBM (countless contributions), HP (Mandrake desktops, they gave Bruce Perens a job for a while, dirty hippy that he is) and many others have contributed I think it becomes clear that it's not all bad. If what Linux really needs to succeed is users then the corporate desktop is the key. And companies who support corporate computing are profit driven. It's up to us to keep them honest and push for them to comply to standards.

 

There isn't going to be a sudden shift to a purely "free and open" Linux distro for the corporate space, so we should all just settle in to the routine that on occaision the "profit-driven" distros are going to need a slapping about the head. I'm up for, who's with me :headbang:

 

:afro::afro: sick of the man keeping us down :afro::afro:

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I may be way out of whack here, but my perception is that when MS used smart marketing strategies in the late '80's and '90's to bamboozle the coporate world, they knew that that would filter down to the home user.

 

So when the "profit-driven" distros start making a headway into corporate, that will give great awareness that Linux exists and also will filter down to home use--PROVIDED that its features for home use are as easy as MAC's and WinXP's. They'll have to included easy 3D graphics support that really works well, better Games, easy use of Digicams, Cameras, MP3's, etc. and do like Turbolinux has just done, which is to include PowerDVD for Linux in their distro.

Let's hope Mandrake will get into the act and include something like PowerDVD (which is great...much smoother than libdvdcss), and some of the other commercial software that is needed, or freeware equivalents that are just as good.

 

I love the ease of K3B even better than Roxio and Ahead Nero..as an example of freeware.

 

So I say this for the distros:

 

 

The Race is ON!

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bvc, I agree with a lot of your points on this topic but you can't put the "money" geni back in the bottle. It just isn't going to happen, and as many governments, the U.S. judiciary and many companies start looking at Linux there will be those looking to profit because of it...........If what Linux really needs to succeed is users then the corporate desktop is the key.  And companies who support corporate computing are profit driven. It's up to us to keep them honest and push for them to comply to standards.

 

There isn't going to be a sudden shift to a purely "free and open" Linux distro for the corporate space

I totally agree, and never said any different. All I'm saying is that all these small camps with different visions isn't going to get the job done. If they were, Novell wouldn't have joined in a losing battle. The small camps combined would be unstoppable.

 

Everything in our world is moving to 'One'....like it or not. One currency, one gov....it's a world view that was created, maintained, and driven by those that have all the control and money. Looking into the future a large portion of that control is going to be by and through computers....like it or not. So we have software patents and drm on the rampage....like it or not. All the goverments and edu systems moving to linux isn't going to change that worldview. So if linux is to be the one left standing on top. It must and will settle in, or it'll lose because there is another OS with the $ and will to do whatever it takes to be the one left on top.

Edited by bvc

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I think people need to understand that RH/Suse and now MDK didn't set out to rule the world and crush M$. The linux distro's just have a supeior OS and people are starting to see that in the corprate world. Someday crushing M$ in the server room is just an after affect. Heck, the Big Linux supporters don't even care about M$ in the server world, There eyes are on the big *nix's. (funny thing is the Big *nix are supporting them.) IBM, HP, SGI, Sun (a little) SCO <---- :lol2:

 

employee vs. boss conversation

 

E: Hey boss, have you heard of Linux.

 

B: Yeah, i have there air conditoner at my house.

 

E: No Sir, I'm talking the Operating System.

 

B: Oh, I heard something about it not getting virus and worms like what we currently use from those jerks at M$. But its some type of hackers os that is illegal. How does it compare to our mission critical OS's like Sun, HP, AIX?

 

E: Sir, that is the thing. It is basically built on the same foundation. Rock solid Stable, fast, secure, blah blah blah Linux is Great. Did I mention it runs on all these nice fancy mid-range and large scale servers like the Big 3 *nix?

 

B: Welll, how much is it going to cost? Will it support our Oracle DB's, E-Commerce, Mail & Home space servers?

 

E: Yes sir, talk to IBM, RH, Novel, HP, Oracle. They support it, in fact IBM, Novel & HP have contributed BILLIONS of dollars to the "Open Source Project". Did I mention that TCO is a lot CHEAPER. (boss ears perk up)

 

B: Open Source, what the heck does that mean. A lot cheaper?

 

E: Sir, it allows you to go inside and do what ever you want to the OS and software. In fact, they SHOW you the code! Yes sir, the total cost of ownership is a lot cheaper. Just ask different TOP analyst and Goverments that are switching to Linux and giving M$ the boot. (I'm not talking daily reboots to keep the server running either)

 

B: You mean to tell me that I can get an OS, faster, stable and more secure for cheaper and these big companys are supporitng it? Not only that, but IBM and HP who have there own Unix systems are pushing Linux???? That doesn't make sence at all.

 

E: DAMN SKIPPY Sir, welcome to the future! The big guys see promise and proven record and they LOVE it.

 

B: Thanks for the heads up kid, i see a bright future for you and our company.

 

B: (Calls Secretary) Mrs Johnson get IBM, HP, RedHat and Novel on the phone right away. I want a confence and I want to know what they can do for me.

 

MJ: Right away sir, Sir?

 

B: Yes Mrs Johnson.

 

MJ: Are you going to start using Linux?

 

B: What, you know about Linux?

 

MJ: Yes sir, my husband is a NUT about it. They moved all there Sun and M$ servers over to it and they have saved so much money it's scary. Also, I use it at home to check my e-mail, surf the net and get stock quotes.

 

B: Thank you, (boss hangs the phone up)

 

B: Holy Crap, :furious3: were have i been, my secretary uses Linux. She's not even running a server. What else can i do with this thing? :huh:

 

/me thinks i'm half way to as many words as my buddy Gowtar!

 

:cheeky:

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ROTFL

...have you finished the book yet? :thumbs:

 

oh, I don't recall anyone saying they did set out to crush M$....just make $.....I could be wrong though...there's a lot of words in here........ :unsure:

Edited by bvc

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:lol2:

 

I don't remember it all, i just started right and couldn't stop.

 

:lol2:

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ROTFL

...have you finished the book yet? :thumbs:

 

oh, I don't recall anyone saying they did set out to crush M$....just make $.....I could be wrong though...there's a lot of words in here........ :unsure:

Linus Torvalds on Microsoft

 

From:

 

Linus Torvalds on Microsoft 01/07/2004 02:15

 

From the New York Times, 28 Sept 03 "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect."...

 

:D

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:lol2:

 

I don't remember it all, i just started right and couldn't stop.

 

:lol2:

LOL....

 

this is actually proving a great thread....

We all know whats right about linux, hence why we use it but when we try and put our fingers on whats holding it back its not so much.

 

I think the difference is I dont think just because we have many different distros that its a bad thing ... in fact i think its good. Lots of innovation in different directions have given linux a dynamism not seen in other OSs like BSDs

 

However I feel what does need to happen is more mix n match.

Most distros are a philosophy not just a bunch of progs.

From the Gentoo choice philosophy to the Debian social contract....

 

but IMHO what we need is a common base for these distros to branch from.

 

What people want at work is different to home. Like I said before suse might be ideal for work because it locks down easily and provides a functional environment ... Mandrake is more fun at home. Mandrake has few massive leads except for urpmi but this makes it an RPM distro of choice IMHO for noobies at home who wanna try more than comes on the CDs.

 

Linspire etal all have a place. Linspire is great for those who wanna turn a key and just drive and might wanna try a restricted set of extra software.

$15 gives lifetime DVD playback license! legally!!!

 

For meddlers like lots of us then slack, LFS Gentoo are ideal.

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