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Gowator

What is wrong with Linux?

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Sarissi,

Surely you could use a Mac for this stuff ???

 

but that brings me back to the attitude....

 

If it can run on OS-X then it should be easy to port to linux...

 

neither does opensource need to be free as in beer.... I presume you'd pay a reasonable amount for the software under linux... just not design studio prices!

 

So when we talk about say drivers they are not free as such ...that is they are pretty useless without the hardware and the hardware is paid for.

 

And home users (like me) run there own web server/email server etc. not to mention 1001 other hobbies people have....

 

its interesting to make a multimedia box like Movix or FreeVo but hardly a real use for a PC that can do so much more!!!

 

There are a lot of misconceptions about linux users. They are all unwashed geeks in Sandles who spend time trying to break into Pentagon computers to play war games... etc.

in reality most script kiddie idiots are WinBlows users....

 

there isnt much warez in linux becuase its pointless!

 

etc. etc.

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Now what I wanna see is noobies being able to try different distros and at least feeling at home when they need to use a CLI or config tool. these skills should be transferable across distro's and not just for experts.....
How do you get win_converts to not see the cli as not user friendly? They didn't need it in win. Now they do? Yes they do. Why? Linux is translucent. Good thing? Yes, but only to those that want it and care to have it. It takes time and a willingness to learn. Most users do not want that. They want click-and-run ;) But, we all knew that.

 

If it can run on OS-X then it should be easy to port to linux...
sure but I don't want $1, I want $1000. Got to change humanity to be able to get there from here.

 

If there was 'One' BIG MAJOR 'LINUX' that anyone could install and use, that came with all the software you could possibly want or need (8-10 cd's -dvd, mp3, design/art/devel/3d cgi...everything!), and cost $400+ would ppl buy it? Oh yeah. This is not to say that there shouldn't be different distros. I don't need all that. I'd be quite happy with a $60 do it all yourself distro. All the bigger friendlier distros need to stop allowing free iso's! But I think many would pay $400+ for that 'One Linux'. The One and only One that will overcome M$. Ppl view this idea as some plague/ani-linux or United Linux that'll ruin linux. I don't see how it could do anything but help linux. If something like this was backed by 3 or 4 big dogs the software developers would run to get their app in it, there's no doubt....because there'd be $ in it.

...back to the bottom line.

...because until there's $ in it.....

Edited by bvc

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How do you get win_converts to not see the cli as not user friendly?

Dress it up a bit like a word processor?

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BTW, if what I wrote above is so wacked out, then what are all these new $distros attempting? I'd hate to think they just want money and I have some hope that they believe that it's good for linux.

Edited by bvc

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The CLI, Ahh remember barbie linux.... you just need to package it right :D

 

more seriously, some people will wanna point and click but not so many as people think.... of course there is inertia tochange but even back in Win3.1 I remember DOS always being more efficient for certain tasks and editing win.ini and system.ini in edit ... now being honest is it really any easier using the GUI in regedit :D

 

plenty of people who grew up on DOS quite miss it and not just geeks... now we have a generation of people who never knew anything but point and click the CLI is largely scary but once people get exposure the the basics like cd and ls they can quickly learn somethings are simpler...

what would really help is distro's showing HOW this can be done instead of pushing their own config tools.... its difficult to write a general book simply becuase all the distros do it different ... but thats what I think is wrong...

 

setting up a network card should be possible the same way in ANY distro...im not saying the only way just it should be possible to follow the same basic recipee for a noobie....

 

 

 

 

But nope seriously.... Im more or less with ya on a M$ killing distro....

Linspire is pretty damned good for those with no interest i how it works and like I said before the more people not using MS the more drivers/progs for the rest of us.

 

If a major (say 20% of PC's sold) linux distro existed then the others (whuich might be technically better) would all benefit....

 

Even if you wanna keep your files in /opt not /usr (like suse do) you could have conversion from United Linux or whatever ... in fact this would be simple if say ALL RPMs put a app in /usr/share/apps/ then its relatively simple to move the files after install..... (although quite why distro's want to is beyond me)

 

Onbce again I wish the distro's could stop trying to take each others market share and go for the M$ market share..

 

80% of 5% (5% being the total linux market) is still a lot less than 10% of 90% (90% being MS market) (in fact is 2.25x more :D)

 

Even if OS-X went from 5%-10% at the expense of MS would help linux... becuase the $$$ needed to port are much less and 10%+5% is better than 5% and 5% .....

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Onbce again I wish the distro's could stop trying to take each others market share and go for the M$ market share..

 

80% of 5% (5% being the total linux market) is still a lot less than 10% of 90% (90% being MS market) (in fact is 2.25x more :D)

 

Even if OS-X went from 5%-10% at the expense of MS would help linux... becuase the $$$ needed to port are much less and 10%+5% is better than 5% and 5% .....

amen :thumbs:

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Even if you wanna keep your files in /opt not /usr (like suse do) you could have conversion from United Linux or whatever ...  in fact this would be simple if say ALL RPMs put a app in /usr/share/apps/ then its relatively simple to move the files after install..... (although quite why distro's want to is beyond me)

mac used to do that....you could upgrade via a clean install, which is best, then copy over your .ext and app and were done. They've now gone backwards and you can no longer do this, but must reinstall everything :screwy:

 

OT, BTW-- Tiger is coming

Edited by bvc

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My perception is that now the vast majority of computer users started using Windows and Mac with either Win98SE or even WinXP and have probably never heard of DOS or command lines, and would still be frightened by them if they heard about it for Linux.

 

And although I've learned a lot about CLI, coming from a point and click world and am not afraid of them now, the people I mentioned above just want something that is pre-configured and ready to use "right out of the box"), so they can surf the web, write e-mails and simple documents, play music CD's, DVD's, home videos, store pictures and the like. I must politely disagree with GoWator that it is "not as many as people think".

 

It appears that Linspire (i.e. Lindows) has hit it on the mark, as they now include the license and software to play DVD's and probably MP3's (not sure), and although they want revenue, revenue, revenue for each piece of their OS, it is a lot cheaper than $400 US (as they can unsubscribe from ClicknRun when they feel like it).

 

Xandros is well on its way with this at a cheap price (with no subscription, except for payment of third party sofware such as StarOffice, Win4Liln, etc. at a discount), and the Deluxe already includes Crossover Office and Crossover Plugin. (I personally think their windows decorations and fonts are very "tired" looking compared to SUSE, Mandrake, etc. They still have some work to do in their GUI department).

 

These are the kinds of distros what Win Converts will be looking for.

 

There may also be a future for MDK and SUSE, if they include things mentioned above and charge a little more for their personal editions (say 49.00 USD) licensed software and built-ins for DVD and MP3, Nvidia drivers,etc. And they'll need to be more stable. I have both MDK 10 OE and SUSE 9.1 and they both have really bad problems with NVIDIA drivers on both my Desktop PC and my laptop, along with numerous other problems.

 

As you can see, it looks like the two that are most ready are Debian based, but that doesn't have to be the case necessarily.

 

Just my two American cents worth.

 

A great day to all.

 

Richard L.

Edited by lawsonrc

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Gowater, unfortunately the programs are Closed Source:

 

Poser (mostly for posing human figures and what most of the stuff is available for)

Carrara Studio 3 + Transposer (import Poser scenes for rendering via Transposer)

Bryce (3D Landscape program. Formerly Corel, now owned by Daz3D.com)

Terragen (another 3D Landscape app)

MojoWorld (generates entire planets)

Daz Studio (currently in public Beta)

Various utilities (Windows only)

 

None of these are going to be in a Linux version. If I could afford to get a Mac, I could get Maya Complete for Linux, or Houdini, or Lightwave (no linux version that I know of).

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MojoWorld (generates entire planets)

How can anyone compete with that?! :D

:lol: ...really! What would that cost? :o

Edited by bvc

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OT but its my thread ... LOL did you see the site which mousematt recommended http://gallery.artofgregmartin.com/

 

Im thinking of trying at least some stuff in GIMP and see what I can do....

 

lawsonrc.....

i know what your saying but I think many people will be surprised....

Ive taught a few people things on the CLI like over the phone its easier) and now they love it.... I was surprised myself...

 

of course its not for everyone but I think once people discover it they can quickly realise lots of things are quicker/easier from a CLI...

 

But I do agree on Linspire/Xandros etc. Lycoris isnt bad in that area either and its RPM based ....

 

but to me to many distros are trying to be too many things....

Is mandrake bleeding edge or is it a noobie distro....

 

Linspire has got it pretty much defined... they are certainly not bleedingedge and KDe looks very tired but you can do almost everything point and click,....

 

Last time i trreied Xandros it was very good but more office based (IMHO) as opposed to home for linspire.

 

but this ease of use and total clickability comes at a cost....

stcik to click n run and the gui tools and its almost impossible to break Linspire... but try deviating and installing something else and the damage you cause can be much harder to fix than a straight Debian.

 

Mandrake needs to stop giving away the family jewels....

 

the problem is the OE and CE are both either FREE or expensive (at least the powerpack)

 

To me CE is a development version and should be FREE and impossible to buy (except repro costs) whereas the OE should be a reasonable price and not available for download.....

 

but they should make great incentives to buy....sure you could rip off on p2p but they could offer club memebership for 6 months (real membership not bronze) etc. that has some real benefits...

 

Its good they branched Mandrake Move ... it provides a good model and the included USB key you can buy makes it worthwhile to buy....

 

I havent tried OE but my CE 10.0 is rock solid wuith the nvidia drivers (first time in ages tho....) and my Suse 9.1 64 bit is stable too.....

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Gowator,

 

Hi. By going to the weekly HLUG workshops in Houston, I've learned the same as the people you have helped...to learn and love command lines and not be intimidated...so yes...there will be some slightly above average Windows users you will venture, i.e. discover, with glee the joys of CLI. AND these will be the first eager ones to convert to Linux.

 

Yet the vast majority use their computers mainly for e-mail, IM's, the internet, photos, home videos, and simple word processing at home ( nothing work-related)...i.e. mainly for amusement. If they get a simple, straightforward all GUI distro like Linspire,and although most of them will not "branch off" and screw things up, there are, as you say, some who will. This is where good and very thorough documentation comes in handy in the distro box as a hard copy (like SUSE, but needs to add lots more "troubleshooting"), and which is part of the price, along with printed gudelines of helpful, polite user forums, along with -- of course -- *reasonably* priced tech support.

 

Anyway, your optimism will probably turn out to be true, as my nature (as I become more of an "old fart") has turned me into a more cautious, slight pessiimist when it comes to predicitions about the future.

 

OFF TOPIC: Have you put SUSE9.1 on your Toshiba 5205-S704 laptop. I installed it but YAST2 and YOU get screwed up and are unusable, and it won't recognized my Linksys WPC11 ver. 3 card like Mandrake 9.2 and 10 O E. I've installed SUSE 9.1 on the lappy about 6 times. I really like booting into all partitions with its beautiful, GUI GRUB.

 

You can PM me so this thread stays on topic, if you can, please.

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Richard

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Huh. About CLI. Remember the person I helped installing LimeWire? In the end I decided to explain all steps to him from CLI.

 

Download with widget. Type this, type that, do this. Finished.

 

That way he figured it out easier than from GUI. One of the reasons, I suspect, is that you do everything from one interface. While with GUI, you can have very different GUI paradigms so people get confused.

 

E.g. for his download, he did not know where the browser put them. I can't guess that either.

 

With cli, I knew he would start out in his home dir, or at least that with wget the file would be in the same directory. Plus Cli usually gives more feedback if something goes wrong. I bet a lot of you probably also started Xine/Mplayer from CLI when it crashed GUI-wise to know why.

Edited by Darkelve

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