Pierre Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 One of the first things you want your computer do is to connect to the internet. If you live outside Europe or US that meams you need a working modem/dial-up connection. The available hardware for such a connection is a so called "Winmodem" or an external modem,however most new computers are delivered with "Winmodems" not external modems. Linux/Mandrake acts like "Winmodems" does not exist and no drivers are enclosed in the distribution CD's. The available drivers you can get through a patchwork of support sites on the web. How to reach them without an internet connection? When you finally find them it is still no straight forward installation. Most of the time you are required to do alterations to all sorts of configuration files. I have a MDK 9.2 with a working "Winmodem" setup, which I think took a week to sort out and I was looking forward to the new Mandrake 10.0. After 2 weeks of hard trying, despite fantastic help from the "Ltmodem" community I am still without a working internet connection on my Mandrake 10.0! Anybody said Windows? Yes, any day...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 sad.....I know ......BUT....linux is ready for the de.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixthusdan Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 Well, I can't fault you for your disappointment. You are, however, doing exactly what Microsoft wants you to do. You see, winmodem producers generally have no interest whatsoever in working under linux. If they will not share their communications secrets, then linux drivers cannot be built. They won't share because Microsoft will cut them off from running in windows if they do. That's right. A winmodem is a device designed to trap you, the user. Manufacturers use them for cost reduction. It is a real sad situation, to see a monopolistic giant like Microsoft make you think their way. But blame linux? You are looking at the wrong side of the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Posted June 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 What secrets?? The "communication secrets" was known to my MDK 9.2. So you mean somebody went into my old winmodem to change the "communication secrets" so it would not to work with MDK 10.0? Sorry, I am sure you have a point. However if Linux/Mandrake can not work with the most common internet hardware (for whatever reason) it will unfortunately not become an OS for the masses and a lot of people will never be bothered to have a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoopy Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 After 2 weeks of hard trying, despite fantastic help from the "Ltmodem" community I am still without a working internet connection on my Mandrake 10.0! You have tried our hardware forum too ? Right ? Lots of people willing to try and get you up and running there. A winmodem is a device designed to trap you, the user. Next I suppose they are gonna try and make me use IE, MediaPlayer, and try and lock my box with a certain key, where it could even be hell to replace my winmodem ? Oh that's right --- they already do that shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixthusdan Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 The way I see it, manufacturers that use real hardware get my money. When I upgraded my computer to Windows XP Professional, it gave me a list of software programs that would no longer work in xp. No big deal. What it neglected to tell me was that the scanner would no longer work. It was a "winscanner". Oh, and Umax was not going top write a driver for it. But they offered me a 10$ coupon on a new Umax scanner! :D No, this is not a unique to linux issue, but it is about dealing with a business entity that is contolling the tech environment. By the way, do think I bought a Umax product again? B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeeDubb Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 I'm fealing a bit grumpy here, so i hope no one is personaly offended, you shouldn't be. It seems to me that this is all exactly the kind of brain washed debate MS would love to know about. I know this may seem uncaring, which is somewhat against my usualy character, but I have to say: Now this is the cold part, but you should know, that when i switched to linux I was still on dial-up and had the EXACT same issues with at that time mandrake 9.0 (not to mention earlier failures with other distros). GET OVER IT. yup, we all think it on some level but I'm saying it. Your computer, even if it's a piece of old garbage from good-willl, cost you at least $100.00 Windows is another $199.95. That means that your computer and windows, was $300, likely much much more, add up all the software that is needed to make windows usefull, and you're looking at $400-$600 for a computer that can't do any more than word processing and can't do that well. And people get on here and elsewhere and gripe because they have to spend $50.00 on a modem that will work better anyway. I've been there. I've been a starving college student, but lets face reality. If you can afford an internet connection and your own computer, you CAN find a way to scrounge together $50 for a one time purchase. I know it's hard, you might have to stop eating funions and drining mountain dew for a week or two, of maybe eat ramen noodles more often, but you CAN do it. Add it up folks: windowsXP $200 MS office $150-$800 existing winmodem free total for a glorified typerwriter = $350-$1000 Mandrake linux 4CD set from cheapbytes.com $12 shipped a modem that will work better anyway $50 thousands of office and productivity programs free thousands of games ranging from solitaire to advanced 3d first person shooters free stability free totaly imunity to computer viruses free total= $62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 Actually there are multiple issues.... 1) Not all internal modems are Winmodems 2) Some Winmodems do work but Mandrake ONLY sticks the drivers in the powerpack and the elusive extra disk.... This is like NVIDIA drivers.... the claim its because they are not GPL yet you can have it with the powerpack?? The logic of this is lost on me unless its meant as a randsom ....to make people pay.. kinda like making mandrake move DL edition crippleware.... Ahh you say you can get it working with the USB key... but thats not really the point, anymore than the Linmodem drivers Pierre needs or the NVIDIA... However the point with the Modem is if it doesnt work then getting online is impossible. I spent 3-4 months when I first got to France with no telephone line and no modem and Mandrake really is a dog without internet access. Its easy to forget when you do have it and a simple urpmi lame means you can rip mp3's (presuming the plf sources are set) or libdvdcss etc. So many 64kb or there abouts things need dloading and things fixing with updates etc. Ive often said this but most people here (sorry RamFree17) have DSL or at least ISDN (seems probs with MDK 10 and ISDN have pulled them outa the woodwork) but most of the world has just got electricity and telephones let alone DSL. Some people might have PC's picked up 2nd hand etc. and if they are left with the option of running ripped off win98 and having internet access or mandrake without internet access many will perhaps not see the truths of VeeDubbs statement. The point is if you have expensive dial-up those thousands of games etc are not free. In many parts of the world $50 is a months salary. Its easy to forget this for us...Americans and Europeans but its a reality in most of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 (edited) The question is: is Mandrake 10.0 for the masses ? The masses have Winmodem. If Mandrake 10.0 don't support Winmodem it's not for masses. Ok, better have a hardware modem, it's cheap etc.. but the masses don't change there modem. They got an illegal copy of Win98 instead. That's sad but its like that. I started with a Winmodem too, back to Red Hat 7.0 or 7.1. It's as if that was easier at this time than now. At least the conexan drivers were free if not GPL. Everything is improving on the Linux world but it's as if Winmodem is the only exception... Well to be fair, as the driver for Winmodem were kernel dependant, each time a new kernel was out, I had to wait a few weeks if not month that the Winmodem driver be release too. That's perhaps what may happen for 10.0 witch had a major kernel change: 2.6. So that can take more time... Also, if you have a Winmodem, you have no choice but start with Linux with dual boot with Windows so you can go on the internet where the drivers are. Once you have Linux work with Winmodem, you can delete Windows but better be sure a new version of the kernel is supported and download the driver before changing anything. Edited June 17, 2004 by roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelve Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 (edited) You think before I got to know Linux I even cared about what hardware was inside? I knew a little about them and I just went to the shop buying one that was powerful and affordable enough for my purposes. I know I have been REALLY lucky that all of my hardware works, although I did not check that before I bought it, because I had not heard of Linux at that time. But you can bet on it that when I will buy another computer in the future, I will check each and every part of it so I know it's compatible. And that's why pre-loaded PC's are that important: so you do not HAVE to check each and every part of it. Only then can the OS be judged fairly, based on its strengths and weaknesses. I will tell you what Microsoft loves to hear: it's not this discussion, it's the fact that when hardware does not work (or does not work well) the blame is put on the (Linux) OS. Linux has plenty of advantages to hold its own against Win2000, or XP, or MacOSX, or whatever. And yes, I do mean as a desktop OS. Edited June 17, 2004 by Darkelve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero0w Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 My latest hardware purchases are done after I have researched for Linux compatible hardware. It's a little work but I don't think it's too much to ask for the stability, productivity, and cost benefit I gained in return. It's not done yet, but it's not hard to purchase Linux capable hardware if you have done your homework. Granted, the masses are not likely to do homework - but the OEM retailer should. That's why a lot of people still believe OEM channel is THE force behind widespread adoption; and that's how Microsoft became so successful by controlling OEM in the desktop PC market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage47 Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 The question I have is why not just go on Ebay. Plunk down $10-$15 and pick up an external 56k? I did and it works fine. It all comes to how much do you want to get rid of Windows. If you are committed to making the change you would have no problem shelling out a few bucks for real hardware, now windoze crap. Or contributing to the distro itself and purchasing the powerpack to get the drivers. After all Mandrake IS a company and any company's goal is to make a profit. If you don't want to cough up for the support you shouldn't complain about what's lacking in the free version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 Well its not that simple.... It might be $10-15 to you but you presumably dont live in the 3rd world. just go on ebay.... where? Do you know any internet cafe's in Rwanda/Port Harcort or Luanda or for that matter anyone selling a modem? [quick ps. if anyone does know anywhere in PHC Ill be there sometime this year] but the bottom line is Mandrake cant be bothered to say what they provide if you pay...... Indeed they have a pay first then well tell you what you were buying attitude. If they are going to cripple download versions they should make it clear! I agree that their goal is to make a profit but the way to do this long term is by keeping happy customers while gaining more. Mandrake completely pissed me off as a customer on more than one occaison, its only the technical merit that keeps me with Mandrake at all. Mandrake DESERVES to go bust... they are trying their best marketing wise to go bust! They might have a great technical product but their marketing SUCKS.. not a bit.... completely, they cant do anything marketing wise without alienating customers - which is exactly what they dont need to survive long term. Even their good marketing ideas always seem crippled by some detail.... My guess is the Linmodem is an oversite of sorts...I bet some technical guy was saying yep but it will be useless without it... and the marketing guy (who probably doesnt use a PC ) is Oh good that'll make em buy the full product!!! _no_it_will_not_ it will either turn them against linux or make them use a different distro that _says_ it supports limmodems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmc77 Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 (edited) Not trying to be too simplistic here, but if you have MDK 9.2 with everything working, why don't you just use it untill the correct winmodem drivers are out for 10.0? I'm doing that right now. I have 2 computers, one with DSL connection (my 10.0 OE computer) and one I use for running a sound system at my church. Since my sound system computer only has dial up, with winmodem, I have left 9.2 on it. I mean, I enjoy 10.0 and all, but I'm not going to get all pissed off, because I can't use it on both computers. I believe the point was brought up that most of these drivers are kernel specific. It takes a little time to get them out. MDK 9.2 is an excellent OS, keep using it and check for new drivers every couple of weeks. Simple enough. BTW Ixthusdan, I had a vissioneer scanner (nice one too I might add) that didn't get any XP support either. That $10 offer is almost insulting isn't it? Gave it away. Edited June 17, 2004 by kmc77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 how about ML-10-OE with the 2.4 kernel? :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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