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CarlJF

This one is an ugly bug with 2009.1!

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Hi guys!

 

I just want to warn you of an ugly bug I got into a few hours ago with 2009.1. Mandriva tells me that there are some new updates available and ask me if I want to install them (the usual stuff..). I install the updates and everything is fine. However, in the end, Mandriva tells me that I should run the command urpme --auto-orphans to remove some unneeded rpm. :unsure: Unfortunately, I've done that and this transform my system in an almost total wreck! :woot:

 

This command not only do a cleanup but also removes a lot of things you don't want to delete: KDE4 got flushed, Amarok, fglrx, and many other applications and modules! :wall::furious3: I will try to fix thing but it may be easier to reinstall everything from scratch.

 

There's nothing on this in the errata. And what really makes me mad is that I would never had done this if Mandriva would not have given the message in the first place! They really should removed the message telling you to run this command from hell!

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I agree that auto-orphans is evil but when you run it the default option is "N/y"

To me that's like saying "If you do this you'll break something or everything."

 

Ken

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didn't you see the program list it displayed before you could hit Y/N???there should have been the KDE4 packages....

I've used urpmi --auto-orphans every time I do an Update and never happened before (2009.0, 2008.1, 2008.0, (learning and begining)2007.1)

 

if you lost your KDE4 packages just install them again

urpmi task-kde4

this will install your KDE4 again, if you got X problem...well that would be a little more complicated :pc::ninja:

Edited by demonseth17

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urpme --auto-orphans seems to have been fixed in 2009.1 I have just used it and it correctly identified the uneeded libs. 2009.0 it was broken like you said, however the first time I used it I simply examined the list of items it was going to remove and immediately hit the N. There was a few posts on this dangerous action shortly after 2009.0 was launched.

Edited by SilverSurfer60

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KDE4 got flushed

 

Maybe it wasn't a bug afterall... ;)

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

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Two days ago I used the orphan delete thing and I first checked the list to make sure that no application was listed. None were listed so gave the OK and all was OK even after a later reboot (Went back temporarily to my faithful 2008-Spring).

 

Perhaps a reminder to look before you leap. :D

 

All part of the fun of learning Mandriva. :D

 

Cheers. John.

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I'm hesitating a guess at task-kde being missing, when because it wasn't there it decided that all the packages that were a dependency to task-kde got removed. That's the only thing I can think of that's a possibility.

 

Previously, task-kde never existed so it could be a symptom of an upgrade from a previous version. Although saying that it has been in the last couple of versions, but then we don't know which version you upgraded from. Just a thought, it may not be that, but you never know. The only real way of knowing would have been to check that list before you agreed and said yes to the removal - as it would have given a hint to the package that was missing that caused the remainder of removals.

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I'm hesitating a guess at task-kde being missing, when because it wasn't there it decided that all the packages that were a dependency to task-kde got removed.
I can confirm that. I installed task-kde3 and it pulled in a boatload of packages. Then I removed kdetoys, which required removing task-kde3 because it depended on it. So now all the other boatload of packages were considered "orphans". I didn't run the command which it suggested though :)

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Sure, it may have been a good idea to be more cautious before typing the command. But, he problem isn't the command itself, it's the message given after the update. No message from the updater = no command = no problem. It's not like if I decided by myself: "OK, let's try this command line and see what happens". If the system ask you to run a command, it normally should be reliable...

 

Yes, their was a lot of package in the list before the y/n. But it was the first update after the upgrade from 2009.0. Thus, I was thinking that was package from 2009.0 that was not needed anymore.

 

So, to be clear, for me the bug isn't the "urpme --auto-orphans" command but rather that the updater gives you a message telling you to run this command. It's then really easy to get caught by trusting the system and then do something that you would not even have think to do otherwise... I'm quite sure I will not be the only one on earth to have this problem.

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So, to be clear, for me the bug isn't the "urpme --auto-orphans" command but rather that the updater gives you a message telling you to run this command. It's then really easy to get caught by trusting the system and then do something that you would not even have think to do otherwise... I'm quite sure I will not be the only one on earth to have this problem.

 

From the first time I read that...I thought...it is an advice nothing else, the problem is if the packages were really updated or not? and for what you said you didn't log out/in after the update if they were important (something like X, kde, gnome,..) that is what I always do to make sure updates get applied (pardon my english :unsure: ) so could give an advice, let it get updated B) ...in the other hand you should check the list like everyone here is telling you...

 

I think mandriva gives you that advice because you should be root and that means that you know what are you doing...even if you don't...

 

my advice be more careful

 

learn the lesson :thumbs:

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I disagree that the package orphans message is a bug. It's designed to remove any left over packages that are no longer required. After all, they are taking up space and you're not even using them. More care should be taken when using it to verify that certain packages aren't being removed that you need.

 

Debian and Ubuntu do remove dependencies that were installed and not required, although not always all - I expect Mandriva will be the same. As you see from neddie's post above, he confirmed what I thought was the problem. You were missing task-kde and because of this, it figured that all the other packages were orphans and so it removed them. Of course, it didn't do it without you pressing Y to accept that this was correct so it did want confirmation that what you were about to do was what you really wanted to do. Now, next time if you see such a list, you'll see from the results that it'll probably say that task-kde is missing and so it's going to remove this list of dependencies. At that point, you can choose N and then install task-kde and run the orphan command again. This time your list will be much smaller and you wouldn't have had this problem.

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Mandriva intends to be newbie friendly. As such it shouldn't give advices which requires more than basic knowledge such as understanding a long list of package names which can be criptic to some new users. Even I rely heavily on rpmdrake because after all these years there are still a lot of packages I don't know what they are for.

Now that I think of it a user friendly distro shouldn't give any console commands as advice. Advices like this are perfect on Arch or Gentoo etc but not on Ubuntu or Mandriva or OpenSuse etc.

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After all, they are taking up space and you're not even using them.
Well, not quite true! The packages are needed, and are being used, they just haven't been explicitly installed. I agree with CarlJF, the message does imply that the command should be run, and there are lots of valid cases where it definitely shouldn't. Maybe the wording of the advice should be more cautious.

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Personally I think when one uses such a command and it returns a whopping great list of things it is going to remove should be a blaring warning to newbies/guru's or whoever that something is amiss and the ONLY action to take is press N until such lists have been examined more closely. As much as it hurts the result should be marked down as experience. Been there, done it, got the T shirt etc. :D

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I had an orphan notice shortly after a nearly flawless upgrade from 2009.0 to 2009.1. There was a menu entry for Helix player (or maybe it was Totem) which would not run so I used MCC to remove it and upon completion it gave me a very long list of orphans. A quick perusal of the list showed an awful lot of important looking 2009.1 packages so I saved a copy for later examination.

 

Having previously been bitten in the ass by long dependency lists when removing things has made me cautious.

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