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hokah

Why are people afraid of Linux?

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Hi,

I have decided to use Linux Mandrive on my home computer and Im very happy with that, but becouse of that I have understood what makes Linux non attractive for "normal" users.

 

1. Installation - easier than in Windows, everything have installed automaticly without problems.

2. Day to day use - now is where the problem lays. Thanks to to Mandriva URPMI system it was so easy to install programs (if I would have to compile anything I would format the linux partition and put windows instead).

I was unable to install Lexmark multifunctional device what makes me little bit angry.

I have installed mythtv, great app but so difficult in management for normal user (for example editing channels with SQL language ...), I could handle it, but tell my girlfirend to go to shell if she wants to edit channel list.

Why when I install patch in windows i do not have to edit source code becouse everything normally goes ok, in linux when I wanted install patch for mythtv i recived many errors and got advice to edit source code but it is not what I want to do on my home computer ?

 

My question is:

Is there any chance to make linux more user friendly, I understand that linux is stable and secure, but for home users we except something really easy in use. Mandriva is doing well but there is still a lot to do in shell when something is wrong.

But for now I use Mandriva in home anyway ...

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I think a good way to look at this is from a different direction :D so i will just answer the quesitons from a different perspective... not because I disagree but just as a different way to see the same thing.

 

2. Day to day use - now is where the problem lays. Thanks to to Mandriva URPMI system it was so easy to install programs (if I would have to compile anything I would format the linux partition and put windows instead).

 

So you are not using the nvidia accelerated driver? You compile this you probably just don't realise anymore than in Windows 3.1 changing the keyboard layout made a recompile of win.com

 

I was unable to install Lexmark multifunctional device what makes me little bit angry.

Yes, this is a major problem, however who are you angry at? The problem is people go out and buy peripherals to work with windows and then are surprised when they don't work with linux. The truth is several hundred thousand peripherals do work in linux thanks to volunteers and probably a few hundred work because of the manufactuerers releasing drivers.

 

When you start using linux you tend to only buy linux friendly devices so I haven't had anythiong of mine not work for a long time but that is because I only buy stuff that will.

 

Why when I install patch in windows i do not have to edit source code becouse everything normally goes ok, in linux when I wanted install patch for mythtv i recived many errors and got advice to edit source code but it is not what I want to do on my home computer ?

Mythtv is an application, not linux.... there are plenty of freeware apps in Windows where you also need to tweak source code... equally there are many that you cannot and if it doesn't work with your version of windows you are screwed.. Often an app for XP won't install in 98 for instance and there is no good reason except perhaps the version of the installer .. then you are screwed wheras in linux you always have the opportunity to install it some way or another.

 

Is there any chance to make linux more user friendly, I understand that linux is stable and secure, but for home users we except something really easy in use.

I think the best answer to that is look at how linux has changed over the last 5-10 yrs. 10 yrs ago it wasn't friendly at all and even getting X windows running was optional... 5 yrs ago it was just getting friendlier with GUI installers etc. and today most things can be done form a GUI.. indeed as you say when things go wrong is when you need the CLI.

To be brutal about this its partly duer to the Mandrake GUI wizards which tend to be OK until they go wrong and then leave you in a mess.

You can use Suse which has a more robust GUI setup in YaST but is less fliexible or at the other end arch or gentoo which don't try and do GUI setups... it is whatever you want in other words.

You can also use more common tools (common across distro's) that tend to be more stable when things go wrong... and these are now in KDE and Gnome as well. The problem is as Linux gets more friendly it does become less secure and stable... how much depends on the time they spend I guess.

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Why are people afraid of Linux?

[iphitus@localhost:~]$

 

and the fact a lot of things dont 'just work' as they should.

 

as an example users shouldnt need to delve into their fstab to add removable devices or mount points, or to access them.

 

James

Edited by iphitus

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For some people (myself included), the fact that Linux allows you to get your hands dirty by manually editing and compiling code, using a text editor to configure the OS and hardware and the multitude of advanced options is a major attraction.

 

Of course where the problem comes in is that this creates a steep learning curve that some people just do not want to contend with (they want things to just work) - and that's all well and good. BUT, a large percentage of the people writing the applications etc for Linux are those that like to get their hands dirty and edit things by hand - they'll probably never want to use a GUI for xyz so why should they bother to write one, especially when they may not be recieving monetary compensation for it (the same is true, to some extent, for adding other features people request that the developer doesn't see as interesting). IMO this is where the distro manufacturers should be stepping in (and they do try, if you look at YaST and MCC) and providing a user-friendly way of configuring the software, this is an area which could do with vast improvement but when a company has to balance the books and decide who to hire it may not come out as top priority. Putting a bit more spin on it - with seemingly few people actually buying their linux distros who is going to pay for this GUI development??

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Unfortunately, the "automation" of windows is part of the problem with it. :o

 

A few years ago I installed a logitech product into my windows system, only to have all sorts of odd problems pop up, including peripherals not working. There was an error in the code of the product, and the fix was to edit a config file. Today, if this happens in windows, the config files have been "hidden" in an attempt to conceal how it works! And there are still issues that arise. It's computers, not Star Trek! :lol: I fix windows computers all the time for my clients. It is not as nice and user friendly as the image says.

 

Having software install by itself seems nice, and it could be, except for the criminals who write viruses. Allowing code to execute on its own is not "safe computing" by any means. I do not ever want linux to be like windows from that perspective! The computer user should decide what happens on the machine, and not microsoft.

 

I think this is more of an education issue rather than a "windows is better" sort of thing. Teach someone to use windows. When they first start, it is neither natural nor intuitive. It must be learned. So linux, unix, mac, OS/9, all must be learned in order to use them. There is no difference there.

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the ironic thing is that mandriva has nearly all the required gui config tools. they're just too buggy or hidden from obvious view. Excepting bugs, I reckon I could run a mandriva system using only the GUI tools. I wouldnt enjoy it though ;)

 

James

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the ironic thing is that mandriva has nearly all the required gui config tools. they're just too buggy or hidden from obvious view. Excepting bugs, I reckon I could run a mandriva system using only the GUI tools. I wouldnt enjoy it though ;)

 

James

That really is the bottom line ...the problem with the tools is they tend to run into dead ends when you do something unexpected. I don't like Suse but I have to admit the GUI tools are better in terms of robustness.

 

Lots of times tools exist, they just aren't advertised... and GUI tools are available but most people don't bother using them because its simpler and quicker just to edit a config file...

 

Thee is also the issue of who is doing the tools... and logically its split between those writing the apps, those writing DM/WM's and those making distro's. The unfortunate part is the attemps at 'branding' tend to diversify these so you have a KDE tool, a Mandrake tool and a say SAMBA tool not to mention 10 other's all doing the same thing...nearly.. the problem is the tools tend to use parts which other tools might fall over on (comments or similar) and also some distro's hack the tools in KDE or webmin etc. to stop them 'interfering' with their tools.

 

IMVHO this is the biggest hurdle linux faces ... drivers being the second.

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Guest jammrk

In my humble opinion it shows why so many other countries are light years of us when it comes to education and even how they utilize technology. Most people have become mentally lazy. Nobody want to think anymore, they want to rely on someone else to figure things out. It's almost become taboo if something requires you to sit and apply some thought. Almost anybody who is "tech-savy" will tell it took them sitting down, breaking something and trying to fix it, this is how you learn. I remember the first time I tried to install linux on a emachine 333 mhz intel w 32 megs of ram and a three gig hard drive. It took sometime but I learned, not that I am anybody special I was just hooked. I do help desk for a major corporation and I can tell you from personal experiences, windows is not all its cracked up to be, and the fact that you cant modify the internals just means you are stuck using whatever they want to force on you and thats they can lie about features that aren't there etc...

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The world is used to the Windows way of doing things. Throw anything else at them and they become confused. If we learned Linux from the beginning it would be easy as pie, and Windows would be the complicated OS. In the view of new Linux users, making Linux "more user friendly" means "making it more like Windows" and that just won't happen.

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Well this is my opinion:

 

First of all, linux is NOT windows!

Before deciding whether you will get afraid of linux or not;

You should ask yourself why you are going for linux!!!

If it is just to boast yourself about using linux, then linux is NOT for you!

If you continue this way, linux will frighten you

 

Linux, as is, is GOOD despite some of you here says that you need to do many "things" in command style. Man linux is not spoon-feeding like windows!!

Linux is for those who has the gut to have an independent philosophy/way of doings things, for those who really want to learn things and for those who has the courage to accept certain things while making some compromise*.

Linux provide the users with a good help by "doing things in command style".

Linux, in this respect, makes people learn and learn by doing it yourself!

 

Making an analogy, Windows urges people to buy an advertised product almost blindly, while linux gives buyers the choice of chosing what product will actually suit your need!

Windows makes you do things blindly, while linux makes you almost think what, why and how you are doing this! (did i hear someone say not exactly? well i said almost! :) )

 

Yeah, there is no denying that you have many ravishing and irrestible software for Windows which are actually not there for Linux(* this is among the compromise you need to accept). But wait, re-consider "why am i using linux?" and with this objective in mind, you will see that these things will be subjective compared to those great things that you can do/will benefit!

 

Linux in itself will give you more personal satisfaction while using it with time..nothing comes straight away.. keep diving in linux forums, like this one, and keep perseverance, you will finally see that linux is more than just "the Linux you have been thinking of" :)

 

Conclusion:

==> Before using linux, analyse:

1) why i'm going to use it

2) what can linux do for me

3) what linux cannot do for me

4) If i'm confident about using linux, what distro will i choose for my first steps

4) make a final decision and enjoy!

 

 

Regards,

wakish

 

****************************

Hey artic i just read the link you have provided, well everything is explained there and i think it's a must to read for people concerned..very nice link indeed!!! :thumbs:

Edited by wakish

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Mandriva is doing well but there is still a lot to do in shell when something is wrong.

 

A lot of things can go wrong in Linux, even to the point you can't boot your system. This is, most of the time recoverable. Something of which, isn't always the case with Windows. If you get a blue screen in Windows, you can most of the time pretty much forget it - clean install, unless you really know what you're doing. I have fixed some blue screen problems, but then I knew what the problem was. Sometimes it's not always simple, and mostly it isn't. With Linux if you can't boot, a boot to a rescue CD will give you access to your system, and then most if not all of the time be able to fix it. It's only very very extreme cases you would have to reinstall.

 

Unfortunately with Windows, you don't get a shell. So if it goes wrong, you're going to have a hard time fixing it, especially with NTFS partitions. Unless you have third-party tools to access the partition, you won't be able to access the partition and make changes to fix any problems caused. However, you can edit NTFS partitions in Linux, even if not completely supported yet. So I suppose you could recover the Windows system without third party tools - using Linux :lol:

 

Familiarity with a console is of great importance, not just for Linux, but even for Windows when things go really wrong. The repair facility on Windows NT/2000/XP disks, it doesn't always work either ;)

 

My main area of expertise is Disaster Recovery, and I've spent the majority of my time recovering or attempting to recover Windows systems.

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Why when I install patch in windows i do not have to edit source code becouse everything normally goes ok, in linux when I wanted install patch for mythtv i recived many errors and got advice to edit source code but it is not what I want to do on my home computer ?

editing source code.. if the application you installed is an opensource, then you can edit the source code yourself, but if not....you wont... the default apps on linux are mostly open source... so editing it is allowed.. if Window$ open their source, well .. i dont know what will happen..

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