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I'm thinking fairly seriously of going back to windows as my main desktop OS


I've just been really fed up woth various annoying problems I've had in Linux recently. The distro that by far I prefer (arch) has a not enourmously helpful community, meaning that it's a struggle to get help, unless someone here can help me or unless I switch distro - which I really don't want to do.


My experience of linux over all is that is hasn't been much more stable than windows as a desktop operating system - although there is at least a smaller virus risk...


One of the things I like about linux is the tweakability, which you don't get in windows - but that might be good to help me spend less time on the computer...


I hate MS - but more because of their business model than their software directly. I use it on my laptop anyway, so that's not much of a reason. I'd still use open source stuff like firefox, eclipse thunderbird (I guess - unless there are any better suggestions for email clients on windows...?)


I'll still use linux on my local lan server, but not sure about my main desktop...


So - come on, convince me I'm being silly!

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I agree. I use linux because it works better for me. Yes, sometimes my desktop locks up, but that's because of the cheap RAM I put in it, not the OS.


I don't hate MS. Despite all the anti-MS sentimate out there, especialy in the linux community, they're not that evil. Any company is going to look ultra evil when they get that big.


The only spot where I'd like to point out some faulty logic is your resistance to change distros. You know the mandrake community rocks, and one of your biggest beefs with linux is that the community around your favorite distro's is not so hot. But seriously, think this out. Isn't switching to Windows a WAY bigger adjustment/disruption than just switching distros?


Anyway, use what works for you. Linux isn't for everyone. I'm a linux user for the long haul now, but I used linux several times before and each time was a litle longer untill I and linux were both in places that worked together. ANd in between, I use windows.

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Maybe you could give a few other distro's a spin, like SuSe (I'm serious, but if you try with the LiveCD, get the 9.1LiveCD rather than the 9.2LiveCD, in my experience, the latter *eats* RAM) or Xandros or even Linspire.


SuSe has a very helpful community at http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/


Of course like bvc said, no one stops you from using Windoze... but I'd keep a dual-boot with another distro anyways.


IMhO, the latest Linux distro's are on-par with Windows XP and may even surpass it within the next year. Maybe it's time to try out another distro.


Also, I'm curious as to what sort of problems you have.

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My experience of linux over all is that is hasn't been much more stable than windows as a desktop

You got to be joking phunni :o

Look, i know some people only use Linux for tinkering around, or just playing games etc. Myself, i use it for online banking, all my business accounts are done on Linux, all staff wages,my advertising posters and flyers, VAT and tax returns etc etc.

Prior to my xmas holiday, the computer had not been rebooted for over three months....... thats running day and night 24/7.

There is no way it could have lasted that long without a reboot (or some other problem) had i still been using windoze.

Yes, it can take some time setting Linux up just as you want it, but once done there is no other OS in my opinion thats as stable, reliable and secure.

And looking ahead to the future,, every week Linux just gets better and better.

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So - come on, convince me I'm being silly!

Nope you don't need to get convinced and you aren't being silly, you are just experiencing one of those frustrating LINUX-EXISTENTIAL-CRISIS, few years ago I suffered a few (once, back in 99, I even decided to *never* install linux *again* in my computer (I was a couple of months in a linux-free world till I couldn't resist anymore), and now since some years ago I only use GNU/LINUX)


It's something that you have to pass, it may take some time, but you'll be back again, once you are bitten by GNU/Linux you are poissoned for ever :devil:

Edited by aru
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I have absolutely no doubts at all that linux on the server beats the pants out of windows every time, but I keep running into problems - mostly with X (xfree and xorg)


Now, it's probably largely down to the fact that I've got an ATI card and not an Nvidia one - but it would be cheaper for me to install windows (already have a license) than to go out and buy and equivalent Nvidia card. I have a top end card - 9800 pro


Also, I have forced Linux onto my wife - mainly because it's my computer and I didn't want to run windows - but she gets very frustrated (as do I) with things going wrong or not working as she expect them to and with freqent X lockups which can only be fixed with a reboot - not even windows is going down as often as linux as the moment. I can't fix it either... :angry:


I have tried a number of distros and I really don't want to go for a rpm based one. I like arch in many ways and pacman is great, but I just can never get to a state where everything works exactly as it should - and that's frustrating me. I like linux and, as I say, will always run it on my server - so I won't be completely leaving the fold...

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The X "crashes" or "lockups" could be because of your 3d-card and drivers. I had similar behaviour with my nVidia Geforce MX440 card. I set nVAGP to 0, although I'm not sure if ATI cards have an equivalent of this setting (or this problem).


SuSe has something called "apt4rpm", although I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for... it is still kind of experimental too, I think.


Maybe you could take a look at Mepis if you want to stay "Debian". Although I must add it wasn't trouble-free as well when I last tried it (about a year ago).


Edit: lots of "althoughs"... :lol:

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Seriously phunni, I don't understand your issues with rpm, I'm running a debian server and a mandrake desktop. Both run daily updates and non of them gives me any headache at all.


rpm was frustrating some years ago with dependeces issues, but I don't remmember the last time I got one of those problems (I'm talking sincerely).


About ATI, I can't help. If you experience problems with it even using official drivers then is an ATI issue that I'm sure it will be corrected with the time.


Also I want to say that I agree 100% with anon's post "every week Linux just gets better and better" and may I add in an amazing speed and quality

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Seriously phunni, I don't understand your issues with rpm, I'm running a debian server and a mandrake desktop. Both run daily updates and non of them gives me any headache at all.


I don't have a lot of troubles with RPM either with SuSe... Yast does a fair job of checking dependencies and almost everything you could wish for is on the CD's/DVD. Only the "odd" program or if you want to install the very latest software coul give problems... maybe. For the most popular software there are rpm's made by contributors anyway.


I'm having fun with it and looking forward really much to the next versions of the distro, and of various software (e.g. KDE, OpenOffice, Abiword, Amarok, ...)

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Perhaps you need a break from the PC and do something else, it works for me when the temptation to install winbozo or playing around with it at my work (the perfect cure). Have you tried Ubuntu? It's also debian based and the ubuntu community is growing fast and there also helpful people there if you run into trouble plus some great guides on howto this and that.

I've turned my computer into a huge multimedia machine, gaming machine, graphic making, e-mail, e-banking etc. etc. with help from ubuntu linux.



.:=The AI Dude=:.

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okay, here go my two cents :P


I do understand that you are tempted to go back to windows. i was too, once in a while, but i tell you: at work (graphic design/layout), we work with powermacs, debian and novell but also have some windows boxes (in case someone comes with only ms-compatible fileformats that we need to convert to mac first). while working with linux and (especially) the macs is a charm, working with the win-xp stations is a horror. they constantly crash on our network, they crash when running many apps for no apparent reason (irrelevant if i use coreldraw, qark-xpress, pagemaker or any other stuff) and the hardware (especially scanners and usb-sticks) goes crazy all the time, forcing a reboot. if you want to do some serious work, even at home, i would think twice of going back to windows although you have every right to do so.


yes, microsofts products have a better support for hardware, but this is like the chicken and egg. you go back to windows because the "driver" support is bad with linux. the companies see no need to release good drivers for linux, because all linux users will end up back with microsoft. :huh:


i do NOT understand your hate against rpm-based distros. i have used rpm, deb and source based distros and no system was better or worse than the other in this respect. they all worked and this is what is important. the type or "packages" you use is absolutely irrelevant. I think this is a bit like an indoctrination that some users believe that rpm-based distros are for noobs, while a proud, self-conscient and able linux user MUST use source based distros. this is irritating and stupid but it reflects many source-based-distro users mentality.


if you want to stay with a source based distro, how about giving the brandnew vidalinux a try? i tested it and it works very good. you get a basic gnome system with all multimedia-stuff for music, graphic and web included and can build from there what you like, using gentoos repositories.


and if you really think of kicking linux, ever thought of using/buying a mac? more stable than windows, less bug ridden, less virus-prone. and they look sweet. ;)

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At the office, I have a WinXP dual booted with MDK10 - I've had this set up for months now. The only real reason I ever need to use M$ is because the all in one printer I have does not work with the 'drake - that is so annoying.


Anyway, I was using XP and MS Office 2000 pro - and for no reason whatsover, the 2 weeks or so before Christmas, I lose functionality to open Word from the programmes menu and/or shortcuts. None of the other components were affected - i.e. I could open up excel/powerpoint etc etc. Even after uninstalling and reinstalling M$ Office twice, the problem persisits. Arrrgh - I detect that only a full OS reinstall may be the only solution here.


Also, It feels as if I'm constantly 'on guard' everytime I log into winblows - who knows what virus or security feature will compromise the system today then :cheeky:


I used to run Win 98/ME at home :lol2: - now I run MDK10.1, 9.2 and 10.0 running across the home network - my girlfriend uses MDK10.0 and uses it easily as if it were winblows - variety of office apps/email/internet/music without the constant hassle of worrying about a virus wrecking our systems every other week.


So, instead of XP > why not consider trying out 10.1?

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Use what works for you.


Linux is not for everyone everywhere.


On the other hand, you don't want to change distro but you're willing to move to Win? Much bigger change there...


I also don't get why Linux is not stable..? ATI? I must say, I haven't seen Linux crash in a long long time.


On the community thing: in choosing a distro, there are three points:

1) what people who are around you use (if you've got experience this may count less - it is the reason your wife uses whatever you use...)

2) the community around it (helpful and experienced or not - if you have to come here for help on some other linux than Mdk, this doesn't bode well)

3) what the distro itself actually offers - the big ones don't outdo eachother by much; I have been using SUSE and only SUSE on my laptop for the last 6 weeks or so. Will move back to Mdk soon, and on to Ubuntu as well (yes, a review is in the making)... no big difference between SUSE and Mdk.


It's nice if you have full control, but if you don't, you don't. If you do, you can tweak or not. I don't tweak. I set things up properly once, and make sure everything works fine, then stay off it. I don't need to su to root often, all my machines 'just work'. Then again, I don't have ati graphics (except on the laptop, which is too slow anyway, the FLOSS drivers work fine)...


Another thing you could do: find someone who is willing to swap their NVidia card for your ATI.


I don't know about win NT variations (never had one), but my guess is if someone on the system can delete another persons file, things are not rosey... I wouldn't want to multiuser on such a system...


In any case, if you do decide to move to XP, just make sure you use the maximum of stuff that's available on Linux too (and make sure your wife does too), so that once ATI makes good Linux drivers (should be 'just a few months from now'...) you can smoothly move back...


BTW heard that ATI drivers suck on Win too...

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OK - I've backed up my Linux home directories so I can easily return to Linux. I reckon a few months (weeks?) with windows will do me good - probably remind me why I love Linux so much...


I have to say though that I've had less problems with my windows system in the past 6 months or so than I have with Linux - that's jsut my honest experience. To be fair, though I have used the Linux box about a hundred times more...


BTW - it's not source vs rpm for me - pacman is a binary installer. It's not debs either. I just never got on as well with an RPM based distro (and i've tried a few) as I have with a distro that uses something else. Nothing to do with feeling more "expert" it's just my experience of rpms and other packages - I have largely bad RPM experiences and largely good pacman ones (also liked emerge on gentoo - mostly...)

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