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Apple announce new iPhone

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If your an advocate of open source:

http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html

oh heck, forget about the iphone...they need to release that sucker.

Uh... the best it can do is GPRS, not even EDGE. I want a phone that does HSDPA or at least 3G. It isn't much of a communications platform if GPRS is the limit.

 

Other than that (and the GUI) it does seem to be awesome.

 

BTW: The dashboards widgets for OS X also have to be 'approved by Apple' - and this has hardly limited them at all. All it has done is made sure that they actually work. I'll reserve my opinion on what the iPhone can or cannot do until applications become available.

 

Comparing it to the N80 or any other phone that is already available is pathetic - developers have had ages to make applications for other phones, so of course they can 'do more'.

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I doubt that Apple, with it's long record of failures will succeed with this one. G4 Cube, Newton, almost being driven into bankrupcy.... Apple isnt a flawless wonderchild.

 

James

I never said that they were iphitus. What I said was that they've been on a roll - that is a fact. Apple have hardly messed up at all since Jobs returned. If I went far back with any technology I could find you lists of failures. But Apple have not messed up since around 2000.

I never said you did. I was just pointing this out none the less.

 

I've had about enough of this conversation now. I just find it hard to see anything more than sour grapes in the criticism of the iPhone.

A list of features of one device the iPhone, lined up against an even bigger and better list of features of a cheaper device, a nokia. A ridiculous price tag, and older technology compared to many phones now leading (nokia 6288, moto v3xx and co). Crippled functionality compared to a device with full functionality.

 

These are not sour grapes SoulSe, they are *facts*. The iPhone is far overpriced, and very crippled device.

 

I'm looking at the same device and I see something truly innovative.

But what we still don't exactly know, is what's so innovative? The touch screen isnt new. Many components of the UI are not new.

 

The actual "innovations" on this phone will only be small UI quirks. The rest are just existing technology and minor improvements on current concepts. As a combination with the other improvements and features, it will make a great device. But the whole thing isnt a complete innovation.

 

The whole touch phone device concept, isnt new either, LG has already done it, see the links a few pages back -- and with a nearly identical UI in parts. What exactly is so innovative?

 

No one seems to grasp what Apple has achieved here, but I guess that means it'll be more accessible to those of us who do and make it a more exclusive device.

 

I own an HP iPaq 6915 and I'd be hard pressed to find a better Windows Mobile device. Even as an owner of one I am ready to admit that the iPhone kicks the crap out of it. I can't wait to have the world's first truly robust touch screen that I can use my fingers on everyday without it looking like a dog's breakfast and probably breaking after a couple of weeks.

Apple didnt "invent" this touch screen (see LG phone). It's simply a touchscreen with a hardened surface, being able to use and recognise fingers, is done at software level. As for scratchproof and it not looking like a dogs breakfast...... my nano was heavily scratched in a few weeks, yet apple deny it's scratchability -- though they quietly shipped a case with new ones only a few months later..... I wouldnt be surprised if this phone comes with a similar case.

 

Touch screen has a great "cool" factor, but it has drawbacks, and the jury is still out on whether it will actually make a good input form.

 

James

 

If your an advocate of open source:

http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html

oh heck, forget about the iphone...they need to release that sucker.

Uh... the best it can do is GPRS, not even EDGE. I want a phone that does HSDPA or at least 3G. It isn't much of a communications platform if GPRS is the limit.

 

Other than that (and the GUI) it does seem to be awesome.

the iPhone is only EDGE.

 

BTW: The dashboards widgets for OS X also have to be 'approved by Apple' - and this has hardly limited them at all. All it has done is made sure that they actually work. I'll reserve my opinion on what the iPhone can or cannot do until applications become available.

 

Comparing it to the N80 or any other phone that is already available is pathetic - developers have had ages to make applications for other phones, so of course they can 'do more'.

It'll be interesting to see what the widgets on the iPhone are capable of. But apple have said bluntly, that they wont be allowing third party applications, and that's a big down side. Even if they are available later, you're locked into buying applications from apple.

 

James

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Even if they are available later, you're locked into buying applications from apple.

 

For all the things that Apple do good (marketing, ease of use, pretty products, ...) one of the reasons I'm shying away from Apple products is because they seem to always want to lock it, bolt it, and lock you in...

 

I do have an iPod. I don't have to use iTunes luckily, but if Apple had its way, I'm sure they would have me use it.

 

There's also a To Do list in the iPod's features, but unless you've got Apple's iCal, there' seems to be no truely easy way to synch or get data in there. And I'm sure there are more examples like that.

Edited by Darkelve

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I doubt that Apple, with it's long record of failures will succeed with this one. G4 Cube, Newton, almost being driven into bankrupcy.... Apple isnt a flawless wonderchild.

 

James

I never said that they were iphitus. What I said was that they've been on a roll - that is a fact. Apple have hardly messed up at all since Jobs returned. If I went far back with any technology I could find you lists of failures. But Apple have not messed up since around 2000.

I never said you did. I was just pointing this out none the less.

 

I've had about enough of this conversation now. I just find it hard to see anything more than sour grapes in the criticism of the iPhone.

A list of features of one device the iPhone, lined up against an even bigger and better list of features of a cheaper device, a nokia. A ridiculous price tag, and older technology compared to many phones now leading (nokia 6288, moto v3xx and co). Crippled functionality compared to a device with full functionality.

 

These are not sour grapes SoulSe, they are *facts*. The iPhone is far overpriced, and very crippled device.

 

I'm looking at the same device and I see something truly innovative.

But what we still don't exactly know, is what's so innovative? The touch screen isnt new. Many components of the UI are not new.

 

The actual "innovations" on this phone will only be small UI quirks. The rest are just existing technology and minor improvements on current concepts. As a combination with the other improvements and features, it will make a great device. But the whole thing isnt a complete innovation.

 

The whole touch phone device concept, isnt new either, LG has already done it, see the links a few pages back -- and with a nearly identical UI in parts. What exactly is so innovative?

 

No one seems to grasp what Apple has achieved here, but I guess that means it'll be more accessible to those of us who do and make it a more exclusive device.

 

I own an HP iPaq 6915 and I'd be hard pressed to find a better Windows Mobile device. Even as an owner of one I am ready to admit that the iPhone kicks the crap out of it. I can't wait to have the world's first truly robust touch screen that I can use my fingers on everyday without it looking like a dog's breakfast and probably breaking after a couple of weeks.

Apple didnt "invent" this touch screen (see LG phone). It's simply a touchscreen with a hardened surface, being able to use and recognise fingers, is done at software level. As for scratchproof and it not looking like a dogs breakfast...... my nano was heavily scratched in a few weeks, yet apple deny it's scratchability -- though they quietly shipped a case with new ones only a few months later..... I wouldnt be surprised if this phone comes with a similar case.

 

Touch screen has a great "cool" factor, but it has drawbacks, and the jury is still out on whether it will actually make a good input form.

 

James

 

If your an advocate of open source:

http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html

oh heck, forget about the iphone...they need to release that sucker.

Uh... the best it can do is GPRS, not even EDGE. I want a phone that does HSDPA or at least 3G. It isn't much of a communications platform if GPRS is the limit.

 

Other than that (and the GUI) it does seem to be awesome.

the iPhone is only EDGE.

 

BTW: The dashboards widgets for OS X also have to be 'approved by Apple' - and this has hardly limited them at all. All it has done is made sure that they actually work. I'll reserve my opinion on what the iPhone can or cannot do until applications become available.

 

Comparing it to the N80 or any other phone that is already available is pathetic - developers have had ages to make applications for other phones, so of course they can 'do more'.

It'll be interesting to see what the widgets on the iPhone are capable of. But apple have said bluntly, that they wont be allowing third party applications, and that's a big down side. Even if they are available later, you're locked into buying applications from apple.

 

James

- The iPhone will have 3G by the time it hits Europe.

 

- I NEVER SAID THAT APPLE INVENTED THE TOUCH-SCREEN - BUT THEIR'S IS DIFFERENT TO ANY THAT HAS BEEN USED BEFORE :wall:

 

- The applications will not be sold by Apple - they merely have to be approved. JUST LIKE WIDGETS - which are mostly free.

 

Cripple device? Honestly iphitus, I can't believe you see credit in comparing a device that is 5 months away to one that is already here - and not that amazing. I received an N80 for testing. It sucks. Sony Ericsson takes the cake on every account. The features of a device are largely software-dependant and no one has done any dev work for the iPhone yet.

 

Of course the iPhone is expensive now - it uses bits and pieces that don't exist yet. The mark up from Apple is expanded by Cingular to the 40% mark. Most other manufacturers pitch in at around 25% - BUT that is after they have recouped development costs. Apple have never made phones before, they have spent hella amounts on R&D.

 

I'm going to leave this thread behind now, for the sake of my blood pressure.

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Calm down SoulSe, Apple is cool ;)

 

Personally, the most important barrier that I will ever have for buying an iPhone (or other multimedia phone) is an affordable internet (EDGE, 3G or whatever) subcription.

 

Seeing as the iPhone does wireless though, and I pass quite a lot of WIFI-hotspots when commuting, it might actually be a great solution for me. Hopefully the wireless signal will be strong enough then.

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I've had about enough of this conversation now. I just find it hard to see anything more than sour grapes in the criticism of the iPhone. I'm looking at the same device and I see something truly innovative. No one seems to grasp what Apple has achieved here, but I guess that means it'll be more accessible to those of us who do and make it a more exclusive device.

I really don't understand why your getting so heated up ... Its a phone that's all it is. It doesn't allow me to call God direct just other people like every other mobile phone... so what is innovative? On top of this it is packed full of stuff I don't want now what would have been truly innovative would be a simple phone with SMS and 3 weeks battery life and multi cards for different networks...

 

I received an N80 for testing. It sucks. Sony Ericsson takes the cake on every account.
My last Sony Erikson ended up being smashed against a wall in frustration (actually true I got so pissed at it hanging I threw it repeatedly against a wall until it broke into very small parts).. since it needed rebooting frequently (usually when you were on an important call and it just stopped, no indication so it could be in your pocket for hours while you wait for the important call and the phone looks like its working except it can't send/receive calls until you pull the battery out and replace it) and the menu's crawled... It was this phone that drove me to my present Nokia which cost about 1/10th of the price and DOES EVERYTHING the new iPhone does (as far as I would use it) .. if you could tell me how to remove the Camera off my phone and the rest of the useless stuff like MMS and whatever then I would already have the phone I want...

 

The features of a device are largely software-dependant and no one has done any dev work for the iPhone yet.
Because Apple have said categorically they want complete control....
Cripple device? Honestly iphitus, I can't believe you see credit in comparing a device that is 5 months away to one that is already here - and not that amazing.
but you said earlier that is what already here when tyme posted the prototype phone ...

 

But lets just go back to the iPhone..... and why I am less than excited...

 

Apple are a lock-in company pure and simple. I would never ever own an iPod because they are over priced deliberatly crippled and made by Apple.. end of story.... so far as Im concerned Im not buying an MP3 player that has copy protection on it full stop...

You can choose to subscribe to iTunes . I never will so the phone is COMPLETELY uninteresting to me, its crippled even if I wanted that functionality which I don't.

 

When I talk about crippled and apple philosophy is Apple restricting the device to prevent it being used for anything they don't think of... let me give an example

 

The original XBOX was a PC with a DVD Rom drive. but unable to play DVD's.. you bought it and then found out since it weasn't advertised that you needed to buy the "remote" for the DVD to work... now in reality the XBOX was just crippled so you had to buy the remote but they unlock it with a physical dongle that also acts as an IR receptor... Now the whole question is if I own the XBOX and I own my DVD's and the XBOX is physically capable of playing them but software crippled why should I have to pay to unlock what is the inate ability of the device?

 

Quite simply do I own it or not.... I would argue if I own a device then there is no way I can do anything illegal by trying to extend the functionailty of that device .. I can see the iPhone is going to be a complete lock-in... Apple will screw extra money out of people simply to activate what is already present...

 

If I can't do as I wish with the device then I don't own it...

 

Apple are selling $50 devices for $500 its great marketing but it doesn't mean the iPod player is any better than a chinese one for $50... or anything special. I don't expect much different from the iPhone...

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Actually, the more I'm thinking about the iPhone, the more I'm liking it. Too bad it's going to have quite a heavy price card. I mean, for that amount of money you can almost get a Mac Mini (to stay in Apple land). Of course, that one's less "mobile", for starters... :P

Edited by Darkelve

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If your an advocate of open source:

http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html

oh heck, forget about the iphone...they need to release that sucker.

Uh... the best it can do is GPRS, not even EDGE. I want a phone that does HSDPA or at least 3G. It isn't much of a communications platform if GPRS is the limit.

I'm not a cell phone tech person, all these protocols/names mean nothing to me, and I don't really care, as long as I can make a phone call. I don't need the latest and greatest protocol to do that...for pete's sake my current phone is CDMA! The phone does do GSM, whatever that is.

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]I'm not a cell phone tech person, all these protocols/names mean nothing to me, and I don't really care, as long as I can make a phone call. I don't need the latest and greatest protocol to do that...for pete's sake my current phone is CDMA! The phone does do GSM, whatever that is.

Pretty much what I was saying.... if I do want anything then its SIP capability to save money but otherwise I want to make calls, receive them and send SMS.. I have a sneaking suspicioin that this is what 80% of the population actually needs and that with the increasing number of idiots who play MP3 phones on the public transport systems already lots of people who thought they wanted one to be cool will be less than happy when playing music from a phone speaker becomes banned.

 

The only other reason to buy something like that is as a toy and then I don't want something so expensive that its also technically illegal to play about with...

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If your an advocate of open source:

http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html

oh heck, forget about the iphone...they need to release that sucker.

Uh... the best it can do is GPRS, not even EDGE. I want a phone that does HSDPA or at least 3G. It isn't much of a communications platform if GPRS is the limit.

I'm not a cell phone tech person, all these protocols/names mean nothing to me, and I don't really care, as long as I can make a phone call. I don't need the latest and greatest protocol to do that...for pete's sake my current phone is CDMA! The phone does do GSM, whatever that is.

I live in a country where WiFi isn't as rife as, say, in America. I have to have good mobile connectivity for my business to run. So I care. A lot.

 

GPRS - the slowest form of data communications over cellular. Gets the job done, but slowly - and with high latency.

EDGE - GPRS on steroids. It has better bandwidth and slightly better latency.

3G - On 3G you can have latency similar to DSL. This is important to me because I use Skype often and play online games. Both of those are impossible on GPRS or EDGE but rock on 3G.

HSDPA - 3G on steroids. And then some. Not only is it much faster than 3G, but the latency is even lower. This is the closest you can come to a DSL connection on your mobile. At the moment all the big cities in South Africa are covered with HSDPA.

 

GSM and CDMA are voice-carrier technologies. They both work although GSM is far better.

 

I was going to leave this thread behind, but the thought of what's going on in it behind my back is worse than confronting the ignorance full-on. :P

 

Why do I feel so strongly about it? Well, my phone is a vital part of my life. I use it for EVERYTHING I can. Not just making calls.

 

But the bigger reason is because I have never seen our board members act this way - you all claim to hate FUD, and yet I have seen it spread in this thread! It was said first that the iPhone doesn't support third party apps. When I showed you that this was simply not true, I got replies of "oh, but you have to buy the software from Apple" - more BS!

 

When MS spread FUD about Linux you all react vehemently against it. But you have no problem spreading FUD on another company.... and that infuriates me.... or did. Now I just think it's funny :mellow:

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SoulSe, the first thing is I read your O'Reilly link...everything on there say's you can only get apps THROUGH Apple.

That is all that matters for me... I don't think Apple need help programming... this isn't why I want an OpenSounrce phone (if I ever got anything more advanced) ... because fundamentaly Apple programming is excellent .. as long as you want to do what Apple want you to do.

 

So for me its simple, it seems you are locked to a single cell operator (Cingular) ... I would never buy a phone locked to any operator because contracts suck... in most cases they are only interested in your 1 shot choice because it comes with the phone you want.. anbd they fully realise when you change operator its probably because of some deal you got with your new phone...

In most cases (at the budget end) I can get a new phone and 1 yr contract CHEAPER than a 1yr contract..., certainly less than a new year and a spare battery.

 

I don't know about ZA but in the UK mortgages are like this... they offer special first time buyers rates and then once your locked in the premium and interest rate go up... and as of a month ago ALL UK building societies will charge more for you to renew a mortgage than take out a new one with another company (if you can afford it)

 

Something is just fundamentally wrong with this model..IMHO. One society tried changing and has had to change it back after 1 yr ... this is very sad IMHO because its the consumer paying ...

 

The problem is they couldn't exist on an "honest" policy because other companies were taking away their customers by offering special short term deals... and even offering to pay the fees and give cash bonuses ...

 

Why is it so wrong, because those who are locked into their mortgages are paying the companies take this money from their customers (and frankly in an overpriced market they created) and today the UK is a debt based society.

 

OK noone looses a house because of the iPhone but the cell contracts are still the same deal.. and business model which seems to be suck in the new customers at the expense of the established ones.

 

The second thing about cell phones is the shere amount of money being raked in from cyustom ring tones and the like. I even see adds for porno texto's... "U b8y U U U" comone lighten up and laugh .. isn't that SAD?

 

so the whole issue is not just about Apple, its about the whole deal.

 

Im sure the Apple software will rock BUT I'm also sure it will prevent me using the phone as I wish without paying fees to unlock certain parts... back on land phones every phone line gives out caller ID yet gthe telecoms companies make money by removing this and then charging to not remove it... they charge you to be in the directory and then charge you not to be in it...

 

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/01/09iphone.html

iPhone is a Breakthrough Internet Communications Device

iPhone features a rich HTML email client which fetches your email in the background from most POP3 or IMAP mail services and displays photos and graphics right along with the text. iPhone is fully multi-tasking, so you can be reading a web page while downloading your email in the background.

erm OK, not interested (I have a laptop and a Palm)...BUT can it act as a modem? Can I plug my existing devices into it and use it just as a modem? perhaps that might be interesting...

 

Everything Apple have said seems to indicate that anything not Apple approved won't happen and it doesn't seem like this is "approved" ... and I see this and many other "services" being offered as optional... whereby Apple unlock parts of your phone as you progressively pay...

Again in my book I'm leasing the phone if I can't exploit everything its technically capable of...

Again a bottom line..... Can I install SIP software?

This is my #1 interest if I ever thought of a more advanced phone...

I don't see that ever happening because Apple are making money from your calls...

 

Until I see hard evidence to the contrary I will think this... Im not going to get all excited and speculative over a lock-in consumer product... until I see it doing what I want...

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"<everything gowator said>"

 

The lock-in only exists in the States. America is the only country in the world that still does SIM locks, etc. It will not work the same way in Europe, or anywhere else, because it can not.

 

There will be free software available for the iPhone. So what if Apple has to approve it? All that means is that it will definitely work.

 

Now, back to Windows Mobile - I can not even find a free universal instant messenger for it! IM+ costs like $30. The only free IM clients use Jabber and I tried imov, which crashed repeatedly. Most of the software for the iPaq costs around $40 and little of the free stuff is any good (Skype and PocketPutty are the only two I have found any use for).

 

Plus, because of the disparate array of WM devices, you're likely to encounter problems with them on your device.

 

Oh, but that's OK. So long as you're not Apple who have the audacity to want to approve the software for your device?!?

 

The iPhone is weird because it's attracting this strange, mindless, illogical tarnishing - and before it's even released. Something about the device or the way Steve presented it must have had a catalytic effect that turned dead-logical people into a mindless mob of haters with no point and less clue.

 

Or maybe its rivals have undertaken a subtle smear-campaign which all of geekdom is weirdly subscribing to...

 

I'm sorry, but I fail to see what Apple has done wrong here. I am yet to find a mobile phone device that renders my bank's web-site correctly. That is just one good reason to get the iPhone. I've tried MiniMo (the mozilla browser), Pocket IE and Opera (which isn't free and didn't work either) and none of them could do it.

 

I also have not found a mobile device with a decent mail client, which the iPhone has.

 

By the time it will come to South Africa it will have 3G, no Cingular contract and the price will have dropped substantially.

 

Apple DOES NOT make money from your calls... I'm not sure where you got that idea from.

 

It will also serve as a 3G modem and sync with my Powerbook. I will be able to use it with one hand (unlike my iPaq) and enjoy it as an iPod.

 

Plus, once developers get hold of it, I'm sure it will have a Skype client, decent instant messenger (a iPhone version of Adium X would rock) and other applications that were scaled down to the version of OS X it runs.

 

The only reasons I have heard not to get one so far have been FUD. Plain and simple.

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You lost me, guys... Too much disscusion on a simple phone if you ask me. :zzz:

 

 

:P

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It's not a simple phone, it's a revolutionary communication device :ph34r:

(well, at least Apple thinks so.)

 

You lost me, guys... Too much disscusion on a simple phone if you ask me. :zzz:

 

 

:P

Edited by Darkelve

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