Jump to content
neddie

Apple announce new iPhone

Recommended Posts

Apple can/could set up their own network... they could lease bandwidth from one or both carriers and just do it themselves...
Apple is a hardware/software company, they are not a cellular company. It would make no sense (especially not financial) for them to set up their own network and pay fees to lease bandwidth just for one product (they can lease bandwidth but there's more infrastructure than that necessary). Not a sensible business decision at all. Cingular likely isn't going to charge Apple a single penny, and may have even shelled out some cash to have exclusive rights to sell the phone.

 

I think you're being unreasonable and basing your opinion on personal wants instead of realistic facts, and so I won't bother arguing the point further.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think you're being unreasonable and basing your opinion on personal wants instead of realistic facts, and so I won't bother arguing the point further.

Cool because I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land...

You seem to be the only person in the world who has seen this CONTACT...

You keep saying what will and will not be possible but its all bullshit until you post a copy of the contract...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You do realize that you're doing the exact same thing - making claims about a contract that doesn't yet exist, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You do realize that you're doing the exact same thing - making claims about a contract that doesn't yet exist, right?

OK, sorry i got a bit heated ....

We are obviously looking at this from different ends of a telescope...

 

First off I have never had a US cell contract so I can't comment on those but I have had UK ones, Norwegian and French... (Norway is NOT EU) ...

 

All of my experiences have been at best bad... the common theme to all of them is screw the customer. Most of these operators are by nature multinational... or at least own large stocks in other operators... its the nature of the business.

 

From my end of the telescope I can't see any way to seperate the device from the contract for a iPhone because without the contract it can't be used for its intended main purpose which from its name I take to be a phone...

(that is I view it as a phone that can do other stuff, not an MP3 player with a phone ...)

 

My supposition is that the whole cell operator business is bad... or at least bad for consumers... the fact that the US has only two real serious operators (when the US is meant to be about free enterprise?) seems to reinforce this not detract from it... even France or the UK with a fraction of the population have several operators each...

 

 

The fact it is using an existing operator strongly suggests it will follow the pattern of the typical operator ... and if Apple intended differently then they could set up there own network...

 

Apple were a computer company, not a hardware company...until very recently...from their history.and they are also a music retailer (again this wasn't hardware but a service).

Virgin were a record company... then an airline... yet when the record stores started selling mobile phone Branson (or company philosophy) looked at the contracts and called bullshit...

 

However this is all company philosophy... Virgin isn't a technology company, if they were they would probably be opensource... but the company philosophy is that you can make money by being straight-up...

This is applied to Virgin Air in the same way... such that British Airways actually accused them of giving passengers unrealitic ideas about pricing... Bransons business model is simple... take an area where people are being ripped off by a cartel but have no choice (today a mobile phone is pretty necassary for normal life, like flying ... ) and provide that service...no bull...

As an example he paid millions in fines in Ireland for selling condoms... just because he beleived people had a right to buy them without BS.

 

If Apple wanted they could also make money from the mobile network... and provide a no BS deal for their customers.. They would be far from alone in this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MVNO

Here is a Random thread on Cingular... with input from supposed employees...

 

http://forums.mobiledia.com/topic22609.html

 

The problem for me is its not a simple case... Yes people should read the contracts (which is what I'm saying about waiting for the contract on the iPhone) but equally the cell operators set out to make the terms less than clear from a quick skim...

People assume they will be able to get out of the contract and don't really read it and the contracts are usually worded so it looks like it will be possible...

 

After many years of skimming contracts I have now decided its pretty stupid of me to have done that.

I guess at the back of everyones mind is "there must be some legislation protects the consumer" but what they don't think about is the operators have a team of highly paid lawyers who's sole job is to bypass consumer protection.

 

Secondly my experience in the UK and France is that in many cases the contracts are not valid... the companies rely on the fact it will cost you more to enforce your rights than just keep paying for the contract.

 

The difference of mobile phones to other questionably legal contracts is that the power rests with the operator. They hold custody of part of your identity (your phone #) and your ability to do business and carry out normal life.

The only thing that comes close is the product activation on Microsoft....

 

Their power comes from the fact they can cut you off at anytime and its then up to you to provide proof...

A cell phone is practically a "utility" like power or water... but it is not protected by the same legislation.

Going back to my original post with the Robertson quote...

Its not that the companies are evil, it is that they can't resist screwing those extra bucks outa their clients...

 

Going back to the iPod, the iTunes and copy protection part is key...

Apple claim its to stop copying and protect the artists but the fact you can write a CD completely defeats that purpose... as does the fact that if you wish to be illegal there are 101 other ways to crack the protection...

All this really achieves is a nominal level of protection that makes it illegal to modify the music to copy it (which is already illegal)...

 

This in my mind just drives people to illegality... for instance making the "fair use copy" harder to produce or dependent on iTunes... just frustrates people...

As with the original dvdcss and macromedia protection .... the motivation on this is frustration...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6301301.stm

In a recent interview with digital media website Slyck, hacker muslix64, said his motivation for defeating the protection system was frustration.

 

'Fair use'

 

"I'm just an upset customer. My efforts can be called 'fair use enforcement'," he said.

 

He said he had grown angry when a HD-DVD movie he had bought would not play on his monitor because it did not have the compliant connector demanded by the movie industry.

 

As part of the copy protection system on high-definition DVD, content providers can insist that movies will only play correctly if there are HDMI - or in some specific cases, compliant DVI - ports on the player and screen as these two connectors can handle the HDCP copy protection system.

 

"Not being able to play a movie that I have paid for, because some executive in Hollywood decided I cannot, made me mad," said the hacker.

From what I read on the iPhone, inparticular the fact it can't download music directly and that Apple will not be allowing 3rd party add-ons (by which I'm thinking realmedia etc.) they even refuse to have flash... this leads me to beleive that this is in order to protect the music side of the iPhone and control it...

Apple have announced they will be making their own flash .... and of course I didn't see it yet but I'm guessing it won't play audio :D

 

My point is that all of this is software controlled....the iPhone is being put together to control what it can do (and here I subsitute restrict or cripple)... the hardware is willing but the software isn't...

This points (IMHO) to Apple producing a device that they can restrict its functionality according to contracts... otherwise why start off crippling it in such ways?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, honestly, I'm just tired of this discussion (mostly because it's just going in one big circle), so I'm not going to continue to discuss it. That ok?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok, honestly, I'm just tired of this discussion (mostly because it's just going in one big circle), so I'm not going to continue to discuss it. That ok?

Erm of course its OK, I'm surprised you have to ask ;)

 

However Im just going to explain my motivation and you don't need to read it or even answer... (just cos your quoted at the top I won't be discussing any of that or criticising anythng you said so you can skip...

 

My motivation is pretty simple...

The iPhone might be a techological marvel... non of us have actually held one so who knows...but its obviously not a item you need...

The marketing hype is aimed at making you feel you need this item... (fair enough) but I just wan't to discourage people from convincing themselves of this before the disadvantages become apparent (if they ever do)...

In other words don't start convincing yourself now and then rush out and buy it when its available without reading the contract (every last word) .. what it can technically do or what it does for the reviewers given one by Apple is not necassarily what it will do on the basic contract...

Its extremely likely other hardware will be made by someone else very soon and that this might be cheaper or more integrated or less restrictive or just plain you prefer it...but a 2yr contract is a long time... so you should look at the price of the iPhone as purchase price + 2 yrs of contract.. and not be fooled by the fact you are paying the contract over 24 months or even that the iPhone will necassarily work as a phone after the 2 years if you don't keep the contract.

 

 

This link is the first I googled but its worth a read because the guy bought his phone and then a better one came out... but he can't have that phone with Cingular...

 

The point is its not the price of the phone but the price of the contract that limits.. so make sure it does everything you want on the contract you budget for and be prepared for better devices from other companies to be cheaper 2 months after you sign the contract.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, honestly, I'm just tired of this discussion (mostly because it's just going in one big circle), so I'm not going to continue to discuss it. That ok?

Erm of course its OK, I'm surprised you have to ask ;)

I asked because I don't like just dropping out of conversations ;) Call it a courtesy of some sort :D

 

...but its obviously not a item you need...
Half the tech crap I have I don't need! :lol2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, honestly, I'm just tired of this discussion (mostly because it's just going in one big circle), so I'm not going to continue to discuss it. That ok?

Erm of course its OK, I'm surprised you have to ask ;)

I asked because I don't like just dropping out of conversations ;) Call it a courtesy of some sort :D

Then I'll accept is as such...

 

...but its obviously not a item you need...
Half the tech crap I have I don't need! :lol2:

Me too... and you don't need to answer (:wink:)

 

but for anyone reading I think what Im trying to say is I am as guilty as anyone I know for having cupboards full of tech toys.. but at least they are not ones I'm stilling paying for. i.e. the contract.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...