Guest Linux24 Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 Sorry for this post. I should have read some other articles first. Looks like it is a common problem with Linux that kernels are released without any regard at all as to drivers that vendors are providing and whether or not the kernel will work with drivers or wipe them out. So the answer is "stick with what you have working and never upgrade your kernel unless you are a professional programmer and can compile it yourself" where Linux is concerned. Meaning, I never get a security update for my OS if I want to keep using it. Mod note: I have split this from a hardware post to this area, a more appropriate discussion forum. Everyone be polite with your responses. Consider it an educational opportunity! Ixthusdan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixthusdan Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 For what it's worth, I have used linux for several years, and my Mandrake 10 is also rewriting files that it should leave alone. I also could not get the latest kernel to work with the nvidia drivers. As far as linux vs windex, I guess you have never had to replace hardware /software after an xp upgrade! Or you have never had to re-register your system because you chose to upgrade your hardware. (Otherwise, your system won't work!) This sis computers. Stuff happens. At least with linux, it is not a deliberate attempt to tell you what to do with your computer. With Redmond, it is all about world domination!! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Linux24 Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 For what it's worth, I have used linux for several years, and my Mandrake 10 is also rewriting files that it should leave alone. I also could not get the latest kernel to work with the nvidia drivers. Thanks. It's good to know it isn't just me. Since my Mandrake 10.0 was hosed, I figured I would try out 10.1 Beta. I installed it using the upgrade option, and then it wouldn't even boot. LOL! Compared to a Windows upgrade it's a total joke. I guess it should be expected to be so, since obviously the amounts of money a Mandrake release is worth pales in comparison to the amount of money a Mac or Win release generates. As far as linux vs windex, I guess you have never had to replace hardware /software after an xp upgrade! Or you have never had to re-register your system because you chose to upgrade your hardware. (Otherwise, your system won't work!) I work in IT and have had to do Windows support for a long time. I hate product activation keys (corps just get a version that lets them bypass this usually), and the anti-piracy nonsense in Longhorn looks like it will be even worse. I've done lots of replacing of hardware on Win PC's. I have never had Windows totally puke on me because of a hardware upgrade before, as long as I had drivers, but I avoided the driver-poor NT and Win 2000 and waited for XP before I moved up from Win98. Linux has a long way to go to play catch up with Windoze when it comes to some key ingredients: 1. Downloading and installing drivers or shareware must be made consistent, simple, and must never depend on compiling or maintaining copies of source code. There should always be a user-friendly option, otherwise, it's just niche hobbyist stuff and not really a valid competitor. If you have to type "make", or even go to a command line to execute a file name or make something executable, the installation routine stinks by today's standards. 2. kernel upgrades must not break drivers and programs (in Linux, it seems to be the rule that they always do) and must be possible to perform with a soft reboot followed by everything "just working." If Linux can't do this, then it needs to change, because today, security updates are constant and must be fast and easy. 3. Multimedia applications must open all sorts of files and "just work" without having to recompile libraries. This sis computers. Stuff happens. At least with linux, it is not a deliberate attempt to tell you what to do with your computer. With Redmond, it is all about world domination!! B) I grant you that, but as an end user, I don't care about the "why." I only care about the results. I want to use my computer to do stuff, not make people feel better about their computer usage. For that, my computer must do stuff, and Linux doesn't just do stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love tinkering with it, but there is no way I will deploy this crap in an office full of people. Evolution crashes on startup 33% of the time, you have to understand a command line just to upgrade your browser version, and installing patches and updates is outrageously complicated and requires too much expertise. And as a result, support staff must be paid too much money. In the end, I actually save money by paying Redmond's outrageous prices and putting up with a monopoly. Linux development must address this. It looks like they are trying, but they are moving too slow, and not resolving critical issues. There are 15 media players for Linux, but not one of them works right out of the box. There are other problems too. Gnome is working on "spatial browsing". That's idiotic. That's just what Windows 95 did ten years ago - open a new window with every folder you double click. I turn that off and use just one window, but now Gnome is going to do it too? Why is there an Epiphany browser? It is basically as functionless and ugly as Mosaic .99 was, and here we are ten years later when people are using tabbed browsers in windows that block popups. Epiphany is a failed project and should be dumped. Just bundle Mozilla. Likewise, Konqueror is just a cheap, off-brand attempt to copy MS Window's use of the browser rendering engine to display everything in a web-way. But that was just a fad and is now over, and people largely turn it off, and yet Linux developers are still trying to make it work. And Konqueror is not a good web browser either. It is clunky and lacks just about every feature you can think of. I have no idea why Wine is bundled. Nothing seems to work properly under Wine. I certainly wouldn't trust it to be stable enough to work on important documents using it to get to office software or even to check my email through it. It seems to exist just as a selling point for people leaving Windows. To me, the existence of Wine is a milestone that marks the failure of Linux development to truly offer equivalent, alternative software. Linux needs work. Lots of work. I'm whining, but I'm also doing my part. I've got a beta installation and I've started bombing Mandrake with bug reports. I've donated by joining the Mandrake club. I want them to succeed, but it just seems like their development roadmap is out of date and about to become irrelevant. I'm frustrated, because I not only want to leave Windows behind, I'd like to convince others to do the same, and enjoy the inherent power of Linux, but I can't do that the way things are going. This is way off topic. Sorry for bleating like a sheep. I'll shut up now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 bvc is in bold.....sorry, I'm in a hurry Compared to a Windows upgrade it's a total joke. I guess it should be expected to be..... since upgrades shouldn't even exist ;) I've done lots of replacing of hardware on Win PC's. I have never had Windows totally puke on me because of a hardware upgrade before, as long as I had drivers, but I avoided the driver-poor NT and Win 2000 and waited for XP before I moved up from Win98. hmmm, I've put my hd w/ 5 distros on it, popped it in another box, and all was well. Put it in a friend pc to....no problem. Sounds like you got an end user problem to me. ;) Linux has a long way to go to play catch up with Windoze when it comes to some key ingredients: 1. Downloading and installing drivers or shareware must be made consistent, simple, and must never depend on compiling or maintaining copies of source code. There should always be a user-friendly option, otherwise, it's just niche hobbyist stuff and not really a valid competitor. If you have to type "make", or even go to a command line to execute a file name or make something executable, the installation routine stinks by today's standards. if you learn how to utilizr the contrib and plf repos, just about anything is available in the gui rpmdrake. If that's not good enoungn, there an rpm for rh for any pkg. Download and click it. ;) Done.....see? .....not so hard, eh? 2. kernel upgrades must not break drivers and programs (in Linux, it seems to be the rule that they always do) and must be possible to perform with a soft reboot followed by everything "just working." If Linux can't do this, then it needs to change, because today, security updates are constant and must be fast and easy. When is that last time you upgraded your win kernel :lol: ;) 3. Multimedia applications must open all sorts of files and "just work" without having to recompile libraries. Again, all works here, and I haven't compiled a thing ;) Don't get me wrong, I love tinkering with it, but there is no way I will deploy this crap in an office full of people. Evolution crashes on startup 33% of the time, you have to understand a command line just to upgrade your browser version, and installing patches and updates is outrageously complicated and requires too much expertise. And as a result, support staff must be paid too much money. Again, all works here, and I haven't compiled a thing or do anything from cli ;) In the end, I actually save money by paying Redmond's outrageous prices and putting up with a monopoly. :unsure: Linux development must address this. It looks like they are trying, but they are moving too slow, and not resolving critical issues. There are 15 media players for Linux, but not one of them works right out of the box. you got me on that one.....pretty sad! There are other problems too. Gnome is working on "spatial browsing". That's idiotic. That's just what Windows 95 did ten years ago - open a new window with every folder you double click. I turn that off and use just one window, but now Gnome is going to do it too? Why is there an Epiphany browser? It is basically as functionless and ugly as Mosaic .99 was, and here we are ten years later when people are using tabbed browsers in windows that block popups. Epiphany is a failed project and should be dumped. Just bundle Mozilla. you can either turn it off and browse by default, or rt-click the folder and select browse folder. After using it a while I actually like it. I have the best of both worlds depending on what I need to do. Epiphany is hands down the best browser I've ever used, Oh, except opera, but I don't do kde, but it is the fastest by far. It has tabs, in fact wheel-clicking a link opens in a tab B) :P .......blocks pop ups to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devries Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 (edited) I haven't the time to answer your points but most things you raise are can be explained by your lack of knowledge about Mandrake and Linux. You must be prepared to learn some new tricks when you begin with Linux and most people here are quite happy to help you along the way. If you want Mandrake to be the same as Windows you will always be disappointed. If you want a better OS (yes really, Mandrake is better then Windows) spend some time and effort in learning a new trick or 2. :) Edited August 16, 2004 by devries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixthusdan Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Let's get at the real issue, shall we? :D First, the "current trend" in computers as you are putting it only exists in a microsoft world, where the security of your system has been sacrificed for so-called convenience! An operating system does not know that Flash is updating my system, vs some kid in arizona trashing my computer for the fun of it. The ease of installation thing is a myth, or a lie, I can't decide which. Second, while I like instant drivers, ones compiled on my system are better. That is, they are better if one understands computers! For microsoft, computers should only be made by their authorized agents. For the rest of the industry, whoever wants to make hardware does it! This means that there are subtle and sometimes significant differences in hardware, that an operating system has no business dictating. The driver is the com device between the os and the hardware. If I wanted it any other way, I'd buy mac, certainly not ms! At least mac is good at restrictive hardware. MS is not. Finally, If you have experience with ms and administration, then surely you are familiar with the continual odd issues that crop up, not just the BSOD and the Black Screen of the Abyss. The ideal windows world is a myth. Everyone in IT knows that, unless you write articles in ms magazines! :D I'll agree that the upgrade option doesn't work. I also have issues with Mandrake as far as their marketing and distribution model. But I will not in any way suggest that we all should complacently allow the windex myth to continue. At least not on boards like this one. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 *takes a deep breath* Thanks. It's good to know it isn't just me. Since my Mandrake 10.0 was hosed, I figured I would try out 10.1 Beta. I installed it using the upgrade option, and then it wouldn't even boot. LOL! Upgrades are bad, and so are betas. Did you get Mandrake 10.0 Official Edition? How did it get hosed? Did you try to fix it? Compared to a Windows upgrade it's a total joke. I guess it should be expected to be so, since obviously the amounts of money a Mandrake release is worth pales in comparison to the amount of money a Mac or Win release generates. Oh wow. ever done a Windows upgrade? I tried upgrading from ME to XP, my system broke. I've upgraded Mandrake without a hitch, not sure why so many people have trouble. I guess it's just luck of the draw, eh? Welcome to the computer world. 1. Downloading and installing drivers or shareware must be made consistent, simple, and must never depend on compiling or maintaining copies of source code. There should always be a user-friendly option, otherwise, it's just niche hobbyist stuff and not really a valid competitor. If you have to type "make", or even go to a command line to execute a file name or make something executable, the installation routine stinks by today's standards. Unfortunately many vendors don't support Linux, and so we are forced to make our own drivers. Many drivers are included in the kernel and work out of the box (try that with windows) but some are not. But I guess we should expect all those people writing drivers in their spare time (read: they do it because they want to and don't get paid) to package everything up all nice and neat. OR we could push hardware vendors to support Linux. 2. kernel upgrades must not break drivers and programs (in Linux, it seems to be the rule that they always do) and must be possible to perform with a soft reboot followed by everything "just working." If Linux can't do this, then it needs to change, because today, security updates are constant and must be fast and easy. Whenever I installed Windows XP over ME I had to upgrade my drivers because they broke. I hear Windows XP SP2 breaks quite a few programs. This isn't some Linux thing, this is what happens when programs and kernels get changed, things break. 3. Multimedia applications must open all sorts of files and "just work" without having to recompile libraries. do your research at all? adding PLF to your software sources in Mandrake Control Center will allow you to easily find, download, and install (with a GUI!!) support for almost every single media format out there. I guess the fact that the reasons formats such as WMA, DVD, and Quicktime don't play out of the box (er, download, I'm guessing...) due to licensing issues by those holding the rights wouldn't matter to you. Evolution crashes on startup 33% of the time, sounds like a bug, talk to Mandrake at all? you have to understand a command line just to upgrade your browser version, and installing patches and updates is outrageously complicated and requires too much expertise. Have you tried Mandrake Control Center -> Software -> Updates? Sounds like you missed that... In the end, I actually save money by paying Redmond's outrageous prices and putting up with a monopoly. Don't believe the FUD, man. Try looking at Mandrake Control Center, it seems like you completely missed it. There are 15 media players for Linux, but not one of them works right out of the box. See previously mentioned licensing issues. It's not the fault of those making the media players, they don't get paid to do it and don't have money to be a license to support certain formats. Why is there an Epiphany browser? It is basically as functionless and ugly as Mosaic .99 was, and here we are ten years later when people are using tabbed browsers in windows that block popups. Epiphany is a failed project and should be dumped. Just bundle Mozilla. Mozilla is bundled, and Epiphany is part of GNOME just like Konquerer is part of KDE and IE (the worst browser in the world) is part of Windows. I have no idea why Wine is bundled. Nothing seems to work properly under Wine. I certainly wouldn't trust it to be stable enough to work on important documents using it to get to office software or even to check my email through it. It seems to exist just as a selling point for people leaving Windows. To me, the existence of Wine is a milestone that marks the failure of Linux development to truly offer equivalent, alternative software. Wine isn't an alternative to Office or Windows. Wine is an attempt to allow people to run certain windows programs under Linux. If you want an alternative to MS Office, try OpenOffice. It doesn't exist as a selling point for people leaving windows, it exists because some guys decided to write it. For fun. For free. Just Because. It seems like you don't understand a few things: 1) Many of these programs are written by people in their spare time because they want to do it. They don't get paid. Because they don't get paid, they don't have the money to pay for licenses so that they can support many formats such as WMA, DVD, and the like. 2) Linux isn't about beating Microsoft, it's about giving people choice and freedom. We could care less if we "win", we just want to have the ability to choose something else. 3) Rants will get you no where but on peoples black lists on this board. It's not somewhere you want to be. People don't like those who bash Linux while appearing to not have done the proper research. Many of the things you complain about make it appear as if you have no idea that Mandrake Control Center is, or what a repository is, or...or... blah. I've wasted enough typing time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Thanks. It's good to know it isn't just me. Since my Mandrake 10.0 was hosed, I figured I would try out 10.1 Beta. I installed it using the upgrade option, and then it wouldn't even boot. LOL!.... hem... you know what a beta is ok ? A Beta don't work properly. Well it works like a Beta, that means still has some bugs waiting for you to be discovered and reported. :P Complaining about a beta is simply not logical. Worse: be aware that even with stable release, upgrade are .. well debatable for most of people. That was widely discussed why put an upgrade that works ... well not perfectly for most but that's an other debate. There is other simple and quite fast way to upgrade doing a clean install. Anyway, good luck, take your time, practice and all the trouble will be forgotten. bye roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocturnes Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 I work in IT and have had to do Windows support for a long time. I hate product activation keys (corps just get a version that lets them bypass this usually), and the anti-piracy nonsense in Longhorn looks like it will be even worse. I've done lots of replacing of hardware on Win PC's. I have never had Windows totally puke on me because of a hardware upgrade before, as long as I had drivers, but I avoided the driver-poor NT and Win 2000 and waited for XP before I moved up from Win98. It sounds like you not only work in IT but are responsible for choosing the OSes your company runs. Although for the life of me why anyone would keep with 98 over 2k is beyond me (or indeed replace 2k with XP). 1. Downloading and installing drivers or shareware must be made consistent, simple, and must never depend on compiling or maintaining copies of source code. There should always be a user-friendly option, otherwise, it's just niche hobbyist stuff and not really a valid competitor. If you have to type "make", or even go to a command line to execute a file name or make something executable, the installation routine stinks by today's standards. Most drivers come in precompiled binaries. Also How can you work in IT and never use a CLI? I have worked in IT on numerous systems for a lot of years. None of them were workable without reference to the command line. I include WinXP and Win2k in that. Certainly 98. You do recognise that not making things executable off the bat stops users from installing malware or inappropriate software right? 2. kernel upgrades must not break drivers and programs (in Linux, it seems to be the rule that they always do) and must be possible to perform with a soft reboot followed by everything "just working." If Linux can't do this, then it needs to change, because today, security updates are constant and must be fast and easy. Security updates can easily be done via urpmi (which even has a pretty graphical interface). You rarely need to upgrade the kernel or make alterations to it. Most businesses and home users have little need for a custom kernel. P.S. Rebooting for a kernel change -sure. Rebooting for installing software - you must be joking 3. Multimedia applications must open all sorts of files and "just work" without having to recompile libraries. All sorts? Really? How does Win Media Player handle quicktime these days? Last time I checked it did not handle it at all well. Except for older versions of quicktime. Doesn't like ogg vorbis much either. With the windows players you still have to install codecs. How is this any different? Don't get me wrong, I love tinkering with it, but there is no way I will deploy this crap in an office full of people. Evolution crashes on startup 33% of the time Doesn't force a reboot though does it? you have to understand a command line just to upgrade your browser version, and installing patches and updates is outrageously complicated and requires too much expertise. And as a result, support staff must be paid too much money. That first is simply nonsense and I think you know it. Patches and upgrades are NOT difficult at all. Support staff huh. Lemme tell you a story. A true one. I worked for a major institution. I worked with one other guy. We administered Solaris and RH. There were roughly as many machines running those as Windows. They had to employ 12 people as support for windows. There were run off their little feet. We mostly played BZFlag. We did get paid a little more - our skills were transferable to most *nixes without too much trouble. they had to retrain almost from scratch if MS so much as changed the GUI. They cost a whole lot more than we did. In the end, I actually save money by paying Redmond's outrageous prices and putting up with a monopoly. Nonsense. See above. Linux development must address this. It looks like they are trying, but they are moving too slow, and not resolving critical issues. There are 15 media players for Linux, but not one of them works right out of the box. Slowly? On which planet? There are more updates and upgrades available for Linux than any other OS I have ever seen. Those media players. Work. Easily. No problems. There are other problems too. Gnome is working on "spatial browsing". That's idiotic. That's just what Windows 95 did ten years ago - open a new window with every folder you double click. I turn that off and use just one window, but now Gnome is going to do it too? Why is there an Epiphany browser? It is basically as functionless and ugly as Mosaic .99 was, and here we are ten years later when people are using tabbed browsers in windows that block popups. Epiphany is a failed project and should be dumped. Just bundle Mozilla. You did actually look at the browsers right? I use Firefox, but I like Epiphany. I think you misunderstand what the Gnome project is looking to do. Likewise, Konqueror is just a cheap, off-brand attempt to copy MS Window's use of the browser rendering engine to display everything in a web-way. But that was just a fad and is now over, and people largely turn it off, and yet Linux developers are still trying to make it work. And Konqueror is not a good web browser either. It is clunky and lacks just about every feature you can think of. Yup. Konqueror is so bad that Apple used it as the base for Safari - which is a shit-hot browser. What features are you looking for? ActiveX that allows remote installation of software? Multiple windows instead of tabbed browsing? I have no idea why Wine is bundled. Nothing seems to work properly under Wine. I certainly wouldn't trust it to be stable enough to work on important documents using it to get to office software or even to check my email through it. It seems to exist just as a selling point for people leaving Windows. To me, the existence of Wine is a milestone that marks the failure of Linux development to truly offer equivalent, alternative software. There is great alternative software for pretty much any useful Windows app can think of. With the possible exception of Photoshop. Then again, anyone running Photoshop on anything but a Mac is insane (and probably not a pro designer - hence I question their need for something as powerful as Photoshop). Wine is (IMO) useful for running some of my older games. I do not even have a windows partition. If I desperately want to run something native and not ported or replaced I use wine. Without trouble. I am sorry if this comes over as a little harsh. I just think you need to investigate the option a little further Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arctic Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 okay, here goes my irrelevant opinion. 1. using a beta ... no comment on this one. :lol: 2. upgrading windows was always a horror. i updated win95 to 98, result: total crash that needed complete reinstall. upgraded 98 to ME, system got destroyed again. and as a further plus, windows managed it three times to kill itself, deleting the windows folder. it was NOT a virus, NOR a trojan, simply a damn windows-bug. i never expereienced this kind of problems in linux. 3. downloading and installing should be consistent, but it can only be consistent for one distro. a source-based distro will likely never switch to rpms and vice versa. but if you look at rpm-based distros, where is the problem? right-click, install via rpmdrake, done. in windows, what do i have? three or four different installers that quite often crash on install for no apparent reason. and then, try to uninstall the stuff again. it leaves your system like swiss cheese and the registry gets peppered with junk, thus slowing down the machine. repair is nearly only possible with extra software (with maybe another weird installer). :wacko: 4. every multimedia application that i wanted to use (except for wmv-files) worked without a problem in totem. with windows, i had to grab dozens of codecs that, even when they were installed didn't work! and windows media player is a horror in itself. i won't comment on that one ... it is not worth my time. :P 5. evolution never crashed on my box, neither did contact. both are very stable imho. does anyone remember something like outlook? brrr... bad memories. and lotus notes? *running away* 6. Likewise, Konqueror is just a cheap, off-brand attempt to copy MS Window's use of the browser rendering engine to display everything in a web-way. But that was just a fad and is now over, and people largely turn it off, and yet Linux developers are still trying to make it work. And Konqueror is not a good web browser either. It is clunky and lacks just about every feature you can think of. i think you didn't get the point with konqeror. it is not nearly as bad as some people say, and there are many useful addons that you will never get for any other browser/filemanager except firefox. konqueror is primary a filemanager that can be used as a webbrowser if needed. and if you are not completely incompetent, you can configure konqueror to a very powerful and very fast web-browser. by the way, i am writing this in konqueror. ;) okay, gnome and spatial browsing... nothing that attracts me but isn't that all a matter of personal taste? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlc Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Since everyone already ripped you a new one, I wont. Welcome to the board! /me thinks windows has a lot to do to catch up to Linux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlc Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arctic Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 hey, one last posting: some wonderful news on winxp-servicepack 2... http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?...ct=windowsxpsp2 The following table lists programs that may behave differently after you install Windows XP SP2: Program Version Vendor App Version ISV Star Trek StarFleet Command III v1.0 Activision Medieval Total War 1 Activision Pagemaker 7 Adobe PageMaker (German) 6.5 Adobe Photoshop Elements 2 Adobe Ad-Shield 3 Ad-sheild ERDisk for AD 6.7.128.0 Aelita Nero 6 Ultra 6 Ahead Nero Bruning ROM 5.5.6 Ahead Al Mawrad (Arabic) 2003 Al Ariss PhotoClick --- Al Maalin AOL 9 AOL AOL Toolkit 1.13.2 AOL Uno 1 Aris Buenaventura Dead Man's Hand 1 Atari MotoRacer 3 Atari Scrabble v3.0 Atari Unreal II 1 Atari Unreal Tournament 2003 1 Atari Unreal Tournament Game of the Year Edition 1 Atari Extra Enterprise 2000 2000 --- Attachmate Extra Personal Client 6.5 --- Attachmate Extra! Bundle for TCP/IP 6.6 --- Attachmate KEA! 340 v5.1 --- Attachmate Command Antivirus 4.9 authentium AutoCAD 2004 2004 --- Autodesk bv-Admin Mobile 7 --- Bind View StarCraft 1.05 Blizzard BitDefender 7.2 Blizzard Starcraft v1.11 Blizzard Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos Collector's Edition v 1.0 Blizzard Patrol for Windows 2000 3.4.0.11 --- BMC Word Perfect Family Pack 5 - Encyclopedia Britannica Ready Reference 2003 Britannica WISO Sparbuch 2004 Buhl InnoculateIT --- CA MpegCraft DVD x Caropus Citrix ICA client 7.1 Citrix FileMaker Pro (German) 5 Claris ArcServe 6.61 Computer Associates ArcServe 7.0 --- Computer Associates BrightStor ArcServe Backup 9.0 --- Computer Associates eTrust 7 Computer Associates eTrust 6.0.100 --- Computer Associates Etrust EZArmor AE Test Computer Associates Corel Draw 9 - PhotoPaint (German) 9 Corel WordPerfect Office 11 Corel 1st nd Grade Excelerator Curious George Studio 1 --- Countertop Software Serious Sam: The Second Encounter 1 Croteam Retrospect Client x Dantz Dave's Quick Search Toolbar 3.16 Dave Bau http://notesbydave.com/toolbar/doc.htm Diet KaZaa 2.52 Diet KaZaa The Lion King Animated Storybook 1 Disney DivxPlayer 2.5.3 Divx Command & Conquer Generals --- EA Games Command & Conquer Generals Zero Hour --- EA Games Earth & Beyond v.1 EA Games Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2 1 EA Games SimCity 4 v1.0 EA Games Freedom Force 1 Electronic Arts NBA Live 2000 1 Electronic Arts CheckSoft Home and Business 2004 Eliibrium EDM File System Agent 3.1 --- EMC Chess Advantage III: Lego Chess --- Encore High School Advantage 2003 --- Encore Software Encyclopedia Britannica 2000 Deluxe 1 Encyclopedia Britannica Smarterm Office 10 --- Esker.com Smarterm Office 11 --- Esker.com Diskeeper 8 Executive Software Der Brockhaus Multimedia (German) 2004 F.A. Brockhaus JAWS 5.0 5 Freedom Scientific F-Secure 5.52 F-Secure Drivers & Utilities CD --- Fujitsu-Siemmens Cute FTP 5.0 --- GlobalScape Conflict: Desert Storm --- Gothamgames Window-Eyes Professional 4.2 GW Micro HP Quick Launch Buttons --- HP HP SJ 6350 --- HP HPSetup 42NAheBLU1 SW build --- HP Exceed 8 --- Hummingbird Host Explorer 8 --- Hummingbird Rational's Clearcase 2003 IBM ViaVoice for Windows Personal Edition 10 10 IBM SmartSuite Millennium Edition ScreenCam (German) 9.5 IBM Lotus ICQ Pro 3916 ICQ iMesh 3.1 iMesh TurboCAD Professional 9 IMSI Installshield 8 Installshield Quicken 2003 Premier Home and Business 2003 Intuit Quicken Deluxe 2001 2001 Intuit Kazaa 2.52 Kazaa Kerio Personal Firewall 4 Kerio WinRoute 4.25 Kerio Playzone Preschool - Kindergarten - Jump Start Spelling 1 Knowledge Adventure Live Journal Semagic 1.3.9.6 Live Journal SmartSuite Millennium Edition - Fast Site --- Lotus Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic --- Lucas Arts Merriam Webster's Reference Library 2003 - Journey to the Planets 2003 M-2K ColdFusion MX for J2EE 6 --- Macromedia Freehand 8 (German) 8 Macromedia MapSend Direct Route --- Magellan McAfee Internet Security Suite 2004 6 McAfee McAfee Parental Controls 1 McAfee McAfee VirusScan 4.51 McAfee Netshield 4.5 --- McAfee VisursScan 7 McAfee Encarta Enzyklopädie 2002 Microsoft Age of Empires II: Age of Kings --- Microsoft Application Center 2000 SP2 --- Microsoft BizTalk 2004 --- Microsoft CMS 2001 Microsoft Comabt Flight Simulator 3 1 Microsoft Excel 2003 Microsoft Halo Combat Evolved (Arabic and Hebrew) Trial Microsoft MapPoint Europe 2004 Microsoft Microsoft Operations Manager 2000 SP1 Microsoft MS License 3.7 Microsoft MSBN --- Microsoft MSN 7.02 Microsoft MSN 9 QFE1 and 9.1 beta 9 Microsoft Office 11 Microsoft Office - Power Point 2002 (German) 2002 Microsoft Office Access 2002 2002 Microsoft Office System - Power Point 2003 Microsoft Office XP Access 10 Microsoft Office XP Professional Excel 10.0 SP2 --- Microsoft Office XP SP2 - PowerPoint 11 Microsoft Office XP Standard 10 Microsoft Outlook 2000 9 Microsoft Outlook 2002 10 Microsoft Outlook 2003 11 Microsoft Outlook Web Access x Microsoft Revenge of Arcade v1.0 Microsoft Server Administrator Tools --- Microsoft SMS 2.0 SP5 Microsoft SMS 2.0 SP5 Microsoft SMS 2003 RC2 Microsoft SMS 2003 RTM Microsoft SMS --- Microsoft SNA Server 4.0 SP4 --- Microsoft SQL --- Microsoft SQL 7 Microsoft SQL 2000a 2000a SP3 --- Microsoft TaxSaver 1999 Microsoft Virutal PC 2004 Microsoft Visual Basic 6 Microsoft Visual C++ (16-bit) 2 Microsoft Visual Studio 7 Microsoft Visual Studio 97 Microsoft Visual Studio .NET Enterprise 2003 --- Microsoft Visual Studio 98 6 Microsoft Windows Sharepoint Services 2 Microsoft Windows Sharepoint Services --- Microsoft Word XP Microsoft Works Suite 2004 2004 Microsoft WSS 2 Microsoft Musicmatch Jukebox 8.20.0107 Musicmatch StyleSelector x NEC Veritas --- NEC AppManager 5.01 NetIQ End2End 4.1 --- NetIQ File and Storage Administrator 2.1 (191067) --- NetIQ VewNow 1.05 1.05 NetManage.com View Now 1.0 1 NetManage.com ViewNow 1.05 1.05 NetManage.com McAfee Remote Desktop 32 --- Network Associates ESET NOD32 for windows --- Nod32 Norman Personal Firewall 1.40 AETEST Norman Norman Personla Firewall 4 Norman Becky 12.09.01 KaZaa Media Desktop 2.6.3 PhotoImpact 7 (Traditional Chinese) 7 Sony: PCV-W510G 510G Super Collapse (Demo Only) 2 UX Theme MultiPatcher 1.5.1 PhotoExplosion Deluxe 1 Nova Development NovaNet Web 3.6 NovaStor Pinnacle Studio Beta NX - Pinnacle Studio 9 cause data execution prevention errors Instant CD/DVD 7 Pinnacle Real Player (free version) 10 Real Networks Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield 1 Red Storm Action Request System x Redmedy Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne 1 RockStar Games NASCAR Racing 2003 Season v2003 --- Sierra Tribes 2 1 Sierra Harvard Graphics 3 Software Publishing Corp SonicWALL Virus Scan --- SonicWall Sony: PCV-V200G: --- Sony VirusSecurity 2004 2004 Sourcenext BootSkin x Stardock Ghost Corporate Edition 7.5 --- Symantec Norton Antivirus 2003 2003 Symantec Norton Systemworks 2003 - GoBack Personal Edition Other MS Symantec Norton Systemworks 2003 Professional Edition 2003 Symantec Norton Systemworks 2004 - GoBack32 Beta Symantec PCAnywhere 11 --- Symantec Smantec Antivirus Corporate Edition 8 Symantec Talkworks Pro x Symantec Winfax Pro 10 Symantec Roboword Pro (JAPANESE) 6 Technocraft Style XP 2 tgtsoft Eclipse 3 Unknown Midnight Outlaw: Illegal Street Drag 1 Valuesoft Roller Coaster Factory v3.0 Valuesoft Elite Forces Vietnam: Special Assignment 2 ver 1 ver 1 Valusoft Midnight Outlaw Illegal Street Drug v1.0 ValuSoft Backup Exec 9 Veritas Backup Exec 9.1.4691 Veritas Backup Exec 8.6.1 --- Veritas Backup Exec 9.1 --- Veritas BackupExec 9.1 Veritas BackupExec 8.6.1 Veritas Bakcup Exec 9.1 --- Veritas Volume Manager 3.1 3.1 Veritas Command & Conquer Red Alert 2 v1.0 Westwood Command and Conquer Red Alert 2 1 Westwood Windgate 5.2.3 WinGate Reflection 9 WRQ Reflection 9.03 WRQ Reflection 10 WRQ Reflection X 10 WRQ Reflection X 11 WRQ Reflection X 10 --- WRQ Xoreax Incredibuild --- Xoreax Yahoo x Yahoo Yahoo instant Messenger x Yahoo Yahoo Messenger 6.0.0.167 Yahoo PC Magazine Business Winstone Benchmark 2004 Ziff Davis ZoneAlarm 5.0.590 ZoneLabs anything to add in terms of user-friendlyness? 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Guest Adriano Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 The following table lists programs that may behave differently after you install Windows XP SP2: Let's be fair about it. The Windows firewall is just blocking a lot of the ports that those apps used. No wonder they don't work the same. But this is good security practices. We can't have the cake and eat it, complaining about MS lax security standards and bashing them for implementing tighter security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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