Ixthusdan Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 It's true! The fastest box is the command line, but then your gui-ishness is considerably less! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 By bloat I mean that there lots of unnecesary pretty graphic which really doesn't help speeding this up! Well, then that leaves you with the command line.not true.....take gnome....look at nautilus and how it sets the icons and background, and look a the icon themes. Since this is BigDaddy's thread the definition of bloat is set by him, and gnome is a duck and kde quacks :P . BUT....he wants "agile" whatever that may be. I don't think he's looking for Fluxbox, Blackbox, Waimea, or Openbox, but rather IceWM, or XFce4. :wink: ...or even enlightenment (E16). They're small, fast and light yet are user friendly and configurable with a gui control center, if you will. Sure you can run a trimmed down gnome, set the background with Esetroot instead of nautilus, and use rox for a filemgr and for icons (rox-panel), but why go through the trouble when there's IceWM, XFce4, and enlightenment? Of course, they don't have icon's but XFce4 has a great panel and it's own filemgr (xffm). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kuchwas Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 btw. Is blackbox also Newbie frienldy! Cos Im still a lesser newbie! ONly been using linux for a month now! In my opinion, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 Since this is BigDaddy's thread the definition of bloat is set by him, and gnome is a duck and kde quacks . Good point bvc. The technical/philosophical and quasi-religeous arguaments KDE vs Gnome are not what he's asking. One thing to remember is human nature and reluctance to change. I keep using KDE because it was the first one I stabilised on. The reasons why don't even apply anymore but I got used to certain tools and ways of doing things. I find say enlightenment/fluxbox/..... a little non-intuitive but thats not because of them its becuase Im used to the KDe way of doing things. Its not the WM/DM its me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulSe Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 If bloatedness worries you, urpmi fluxbox and prepare to have the speed knock you back in your seat... or you could just run straight X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtweidmann Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 Normally I use KDE, but I also like IceWM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphitus Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 FLUXBOX FLUXBOX FLUXBOX FLUXBOX FLUXBOX FLUXBOX I use GNOME but i changed the WIndow manager of GNOME to FLuxbox. It's sweet! http://aslan.no-ip.com/~rcxau/images/currentdesk.jpg Anyway here is an excerpt from my upcoming 'Theming and Desktop Environments HOW TO' I only wrote this 10 minutes ago, so i havent checked it yet. James # What X, Window managers and Desktop Environments have to do with each other. Linux is like a stack of papers, it is layered. Different layers do different things. The bottom layer is the Kernel, it is the core, manages memory and provides an interface to devices. It does much more, but that is out of the scope of this HOW-TO. Above that is X, otherwise called the X Window System, X11, Xfree or the X server. X is the blank canvas of an artist. It is a server GUI applications connect to, it then provides the ability for these GUI applications to be seen on the screen. It not only provides the screen, but the ability for programs to receive and interpret key presses, mouse movements and clicks. Programs which run on X are 'X Clients', they connect to the X Server, it gives them the screen real estate, and they start. On top of X can go Window managers and Desktop Environments. What are Window Managers Window managers (WM) are X Clients which provide the border around the window. The WM, controls how an app looks, border, titlebar, size of a window and the ability to resize a window. Many Window managers provide other things like, places to stick dockapps (www.dockapps.org), a menu to start programs and to configure the WM and other usefull things. Fluxbox for example has the ability to tab windows. WIndow managers generally dont provide things like desktop icons. These are commonly seen in Desktop Environments, though it is possible to have icons in a WM (http://idesk.timmfin.net/). Because of the lack of 'extras' WMs are much lighter on system resources. What are Desktop Environments Desktop Environments (DE) are different to the Window Manager in the fact they provide much more, a whole environment. DEs are a bringing together of a range of different X clients, including a Window manager, often a panel for applets, starters and menus and often icons. For a WM, GNOME uses Metacity or Sawfish by default and KDE inludes its own KWin. This WM can be changed. DEs are much easier to use but are unfortunately more heavy on system resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 Personally (and it is a very personal decision) I use KDE on my main box. I have 1GB RAM so it isn't an issue. On my laptop I have 384MB I use KDE sometimes and IceWM sometimes I find the two pretty compatible in terms of feel and I don't feel so lost as switching to something that works completely differently. On my server I don't even have X installed. Webmin does 90% and the good ole CLI the rest. So its choosing what works for you..... If your coming from wonblows I think KDE is a friendly DM/WM but I wouldn't try with your RAM. Bloat is a very relative word.... 'A weed is just a flower in the wrong place' and when you have a Athalon 2700+ with a gig of RAM and the kernel/KDE/Qt compiled for athalon non of it appears as bloatware. It would be a shame if my processor and memory were wasted and KDE makes good use of them. It would also be a shame if you needed them.... thats what linux is all about...personal choice. I'd recommend (since you asked) that with your current memory you choose a lighter DM or a pure WM. Gnome might be slightly lighter ... but it all goes down to what you wanna watch. I found the habit of Galeon counting the number of files in each directory a waste of resources. Its also a pain because it means that /mnt/cdrom is being accessed from /mnt All of this is preference.... do you want the 'bloat' or not. I'd say your konqueror start-up times are obsessively long and I wouldn't choose to run it under those circumstances. You might have network problems and this is a symptom of them This probably makes it worthwhile checking your networking BUT that doesn't mean you should stick with KDE if it still feels unpleasantly slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunni Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 btw. Is blackbox also Newbie frienldy! Cos Im still a lesser newbie! ONly been using linux for a month now! IMHO Fluxbox would be a slightly more friendly wm - although it's similar.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphitus Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 btw. Is blackbox also Newbie frienldy! Cos Im still a lesser newbie! ONly been using linux for a month now! IMHO Fluxbox would be a slightly more friendly wm - although it's similar.... And there are quite a few fluxbox users here too! Im often on IRC so if he needs help, i might be there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 ....and again. The small wm's are only fast with their own menus and window behavior, and are only easy on resources for the first 10 big apps you open in an hour (give or take, of course). After that you'll find you're using the same resources regardless of your wm....Why?... because linux loves ram, and when it's gone it goes to swap (like no one knows this, so why are we discussing it?). So, if you use Mozilla and OpenOffice with Flux, heh, you can use KDE or Gnome. I've used KDE, Gnome, Flux, BB, Waimea, XFce4, IceWM, WindowMaker, AfterStep, twm, and even no wm with just X and an xterm on my old Celeron600, 192MB, 7200RPM 30GB Maxtor, and the eggs all ended up in the same basket with the same count. So, take your pick, since you have 256MB. It's the kernel that eats your resources. The DE/WM can only determine how fast it gets used up. KDE/Gnome? RAM is pretty well gone at login. Flux and others? Well, you'll have some free RAM for a short while...which will depend on what apps you use. You want to run Flux, Abiword, Rox, MozillaFirebird, Thunderbird? (independemt small apps).....you'll find your RAM last longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigDaddy Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 If that's the case I thing a wise idea would be to move the SWAP file to MAXTOR HDD which is also faster then WDC,where linux resides But how do I do that? Can I just link it to PAGEFILE.SYS or is it better to create a linux SWAP partition, and if it is, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 Are you saying you are currently using the windows pagefile.sys and not a linux swap? I do not know of the +/-, do's and don't with that. Moving a swap partition is not going to make a big diff in speed if any noticable diff at all. I did notice the hd's you have and suspect they are playing a big part of your slowdown. Have you checked out hdparm? (Search the forum). It can usually squeeze a little more out of your hd's (be carefull, and research your hd's specs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 pagefile.who??? No linux doesn't do anything so crude as make a file on a filesystem to use as swap. Actually, don't let me messing you around bother you, Im just injecting a bit of humour :D OK, what is swap? Its pages of memory which are wriiten out of memory to disk.... What is a disk .... its just a block device with offsets.... So linux thinks .... hey why write blocks of memory to a filesystem thats a complete waste of time becuase I just wanna store raw pages.... So in fact linux swap space is raw unformatted disk..... Not only that but you can use the swap according to the speed of the disk. You can actually have multipe swap partitions on different disks and prioritise them but thats probably going a bit to far for this lecture :D All you need is a raw area odf unused disk that you define as swap. You can actually do the simple setup direct from the MCC (Mandrake Control Centre) or diskdrake. If you only have 1 swap then that will be used by default... I don't know any graphical tool to use multiple ones and prioritise them so lets stay simple for now... However whatever disk you have its going to be 1000 times less speedy than your memory. In the meantime there are (as usual with linux 1001 ways to minimise your ram useage) This will give you a better speed gain... but maybe for more work. You can 1) recompile your kernel and get rid of bits you don't need or make them modules...if you don't have PCMCIA or SCSI then they can be removed. 2) Remove any server stuff your not using or set it to start on demand... 3) Choose lighter applications.... drop OpenOffice in favour of abiword or something ...get rid of mozilla and use firebird etc. etc. 4) bvc is 101% correct, Ive given up trying to explain this or why I still use KDE but he's right. KDE just takes the memory EARLIER rather than later... in the end your apps will use it and linux LOVES RAM. This isn't an accident, RAM prices have dropped so much the kernel is changed to handle it better and 'modern' distro's are configured to take full advantage of it.... In fact, so much KDE code and memory space is shared, one you get past the initial start-up etc. its probably faster than a lot of minimalist stuff, especially once the app is loaded. But if you don't have the RAM you don't have the RAM. OpenOffice is JUST SLOW TO LOAD... it takes 10 seconds on my machine.... (the first time and still 3 seconds after that) (I just tested) So its up to you to see which direction to explore first.... If it was me I'd be saving for more RAM though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 Gowator, I know you were joking but incase anyone didn't know.... :wink: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Swap-Space-7.html As we saw, Linux and Windows can share their swap spaces. But Window doesn't really require as large a swap file as your Linux swap partition ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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