null Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 I've been noticing some places selling inexpensive computers with linux pre-installed. Specifically, I noticed that Sam's Club (in the USA) is selling some on their website for starting at less than $300. However, they don't say what linux distro they have ... :? Personally, I like putting together my own boxes - but the last one that I did cost me a total of around $1,000 (admittedly that included a win2000 Pro "upgrade" CD for $150 - I wanted to rid myself of win98). So I was wondering about the Sam's linux computers, and the general "trend" of some other places selling pre-loaded linux machines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 So, no chance you're living in Alaska, are you ?? :D :D :D I just pu together an imagionary system for a friend...for about 550 €. It didn't have an OS yet or a mouse or screen or keyboard, but not everyboduy wants to buy that...sinc eyou can have it lready.... -ahtlon xp 2500 -asus a7n8x-x (I think, littl ecryptic stuff) -256 MB ddr (pc 3200 ==ddr 400 I think or something) -LG dvd/cd-drive (all thing except dvd+ (thinks this exists) seems missing) -ATI 9200 dvi(?)/tvout..I was doubting to take NVIDIA since I use NVIDIA and I'm pleased, but don't nothing about ATI except that they SEEM to be doing good... -Maxtor 40 GB harddrive -chieftec case -400 W powersupply (wasn't sure about this too) anway for those of Belgium..it's from http://www.forcom.be I suppose if you add a monitor..you still will have a pice around 750-1000 € :) others can look too..you only have an info button in the "shop"....I advice top go there..you can check it out without buying. The only thing I don't liek about it..is that complaining and garantuee is difficult. I bought my nec-vd-writer there and like you probably can see "+nero"..didn't got nero....but heart of friends of mine who bought there too and seem to be pleases..me too except for the nero-stuff I suppose it's just about looking atound and who sells the stuuf you want against the lowest price....but it takes time..Except igf you have loads of money ofcourse.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunni Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 I've been toying with the idea of selling cheap, good quality PCs with Linux pre-installed - I'd probably offer a choice of a couple of distros. I guess it'd be mostly for UK people though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted September 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 So, no chance you're living in Alaska, are you ?? :lol: so, did I pay too much ?? It was around the end of last year, so some components were probably more expensive then. Also, I used some pretty expensive components - an Antec full tower server case ($130) and a new Asus mobo (A7V333 that was kind of expensive) and as I said the win2K professional upgrade CD added $150 to the price. Also I bought a TDK 48x CD burner instead of the cheaper companies such as Lite-On, A-Open, etc and I bought a DVD-ROM too (only $59). Next time I put something together, well... guess I'll just keep upgrading my Antec full tower case - its great !! Next project - DVD burner and some burning software (windoze for the time being) so I can get going on backing up my dvd collection and transferring some VHS to DVD. Anyway, the original post was that I thought the Sam's computers looked like a good deal for $300 or even less. I don't remember what they were - P4 - no probably not - probably AMD or Intel Celeron.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixthusdan Posted September 24, 2003 Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 I have a very small business where I consult, repair, and build computers. I can tell you that, as far as track records are concerned, lower cost components always cost me more in the long run because of warranty service. And, I do a lot of service on those Wal-mart type cheap computers. You can select reasonably priced components and build a computer that is miles ahead of any cheapy unit! :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoopy Posted September 24, 2003 Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 Speaking of Walmart and cheap, I seen the following system there for $498 and was thinking, I don't think I could piece this together any cheaper (moniter and all is included). Was also wondering if MS still offered refunds if someone did not want the copy of XP ? Compaq Presario S4020WM-B AMD Athlon XP 2400+ processor (2.0 GHz) 128 MB DDR SDRAM Built-in HP CD-Writer (CD-RW) 40 GB hard drive Integrated 10/100 Base-T networking interface Compaq CV7500 17" monitor Windows XP Home Edition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted September 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 the main thing that started me on the road to putting together my own systems was that I hated all the crap that came on the cheapie computers, or even on the mid-level decent computers - crap that I didn't want. I know, I know, I could just uninstall it - but its just the principal of the thing. I don't want AOL icons on my desktop, I don't want MS Money, I don't want MS Works, I don't want 20 icons on my desktop for various things I don't want. And I don't want a modem in the box either. I've been on broadband for a couple of years.... Oh yeah - I don't want XPee either.... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidzoo Posted September 24, 2003 Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 Those are exactly the same reasons that I started building my own systems about 7 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixthusdan Posted September 24, 2003 Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 Scoopy All of the cheapy computers use a motherboard that has built in video-sound-network-modem and anything else they can lump into the board. That's where the money is saved and the performance is lost. (Not to mention the reliability!) So you can take a good processor and kluge it up with such a board. Even if you give it ram city, the board is designed for the processor to do processing and everything else. Actually 500 bucks will build an excellent computer. I see 17" monitors for $69!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoopy Posted September 24, 2003 Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 Thanks Ix, I see now, I was thinking of the couple systems I have pieced together... the better MB's with 2 extra PCI slots, extra ram slots, the separate Audio and Video cards, etc. I like the control you have when building your own. You usally end up spending more (unless you recycle some parts)... but its well worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmpatrick Posted September 24, 2003 Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 Not to mention the fact that compaqs really suck. They always stick a lot of proprietary stuff in there which makes it hard to upgrade and a lot of their stuff has trouble with linux. The worst example I heard of was their power supplies in some of their old boxes; they switched the wiring around on some of the power connections. If you replaced the power supply with a standard one it would fry th motherboard. To buy a new power supply from compaq cost around twice what a standard one would would cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted September 24, 2003 Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 here ya go phunni http://www.qlilinuxpc.com/ 60=Cheap Case 300W PSU 60=Cheap MoBo 60=Cheap Processor (Athlon XP 1900+) 40=256MB PC2100 cheap ram 40=40GB HD ($80-$40 Rebate) 10=Floppy 40=CDROM 30=SB 16 PCI (soundcard) 15=NIC 40=NoName Video card (Apollo GF4 MX440 SE 64MB AGP) 70=monitor (never seen a 17" for less than 100 myself but I'll take lx's word for it) 35=cheap keyboard/mouse ----- $500.00 40=modem if needed but then you may not need the NIC. Not great...but it'll get ya goin' I guess. I took a factory floppy and a 30GB maxtor and DVD player I had put in my old sys and got.. 60=Antec Case 300W Single Fan PSU 80=Abit KD7 MoBo 60=Athlon XP 1900+ 40=256MB PC2100 ----- $240.00 Granted, my PSU and GF2 were damaged by the dying transformer behind my house so another 40=Apollo GF4 60=KinWin 350W Dual Fan MultiSpeed PSU Got a dying 19" Dell 990 monitor from the mother in-law and 15=NIC so for $355.00 I got a new sys, but that should have only been $255.00 :roll: I'm now able to network and have 2 nice machines, well the old isn't really nice but it's still better than a lot of people have, so I'm thankful! :) I don't see much of a point in buying the cheapies retail/outlet. If you're a windozer only kinda person it's ok because you want the $200.00 and up *cough* XP. If it's got linux on it, the price of the OS is the main reason for the price and of course the other is cheap onboard crap. I considered the ThizLinux PC at Fry's Electronics for $400.00 w/ monitor, keyboard, mouse, but after I priced what it would take to make 2 from one...I ended up with twice the sys for less $. It's the only way to go if you want control and to save $, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphitus Posted September 24, 2003 Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 Not to mention the fact that compaqs really suck. They always stick a lot of proprietary stuff in there which makes it hard to upgrade and a lot of their stuff has trouble with linux. The worst example I heard of was their power supplies in some of their old boxes; they switched the wiring around on some of the power connections. If you replaced the power supply with a standard one it would fry th motherboard. To buy a new power supply from compaq cost around twice what a standard one would would cost. Yeah but they are HP now. And HPs are great, a little bit overpriced but damn reliable. I have had no probs with my HP and others. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunni Posted September 24, 2003 Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 here ya go phunnihttp://www.qlilinuxpc.com/ I like their "wizard" for putting a custom system together Edit: I don't like the fact that you have to buy a copy of linux with your PC - I already have 3 distros on CDs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted September 24, 2003 Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 1) My system buying rules: If you can source the parts yourself all well and good but you are likely to pay more. As pouinted out though you will get a more reliable and configurable system. 2) If you are busy or don't have the cash its often cheaper to buy a pre-built system. Especially if your considering a major pripheral upgrade like printer or monitor->LCD. 3) If you do this still try for the individual components and pay slightly more. Always go as generic as possible and don't buy from anyone who can't tell you what CPU you can replace the current one with or what type of memory it takes. 4) Stay away from onboard stuff. Firstly its liable to fail....secondly you have to throw it away with the mobo... so you have to rebuy it later!!! Specially annoying are onboard devices like VIDEO. The stresses on the contacts from the cables often causes pins to fail. When you do replace it you are often stuck with a system where the onboard graphcs can't be completely disabled and keeps causing interupt conflicts etc. 5) Sometimes it makes financial sense .... to buy integrated peripherals. Yeah Im doing an about turn. IF your looking at a server then intergrated video or sound isn't all bad and saves you a significant amount of $$$$$ Its actually hard to buy really cheap VGA only graphics NOW. yet for a text based server its all you need. An inbuilt slow graphics chip is a decent comprimise.... Also USB is becoming as common as serial ports once were. Sometimes you just gota go with the flow.... If they are intergrated OK, especially if I know they work under linux OR can be disabled 100%. Ivwe recently found the nforce chipset to be pretty well supported after a bit of hacking undr Mandrake. Now I have a belkin USB2 card that won't work but my new intergrated MOBO (from shuttle) has USB2 which works. Personally I prefer an integrated one that works to a external one that doesn't... Another big thing.... Chipsets are changing very quickly and MOBO prices have stayed more or less constant in price and have dropped in real terms. Buying a MOBO/Processor together often is slightly cheaper too and often has other advantages like serialATA or USB2 or ..... If you add the price of CPU + USB2 card and compare it to CPU + MOBO with USB2 AND firewire AND 5.1 sound AND serial ATA there is little price difference. If you see the possibilites you opened up by choosing the CPU+MOBO combination then if you only use one of them you save money. I still prefer choosing every component BUT sometimes it just isn't worth it. Compaq-HP-IBM they all pretty much suck becuase they are made by companies and departments who don't have a clue anymore (except IBM) how to make a PC. They have become outsourcing marketers... thats all they do. It wasn't always so....unfortunately they all got stung and decided a long time ago it wasn't good for business to actually try and build a PC when they could outsource it much cheaper. Compaq tried .... it really did. It was leader of the EISA bus....consortium ... a high bandwith replacementt to EISA but it failed miserably after lack of general inductry adoption. Compaq then got the idea and got rid of the technical people who had the idea of actually understanding how the PC worked and replaced them with people who knew how to sell PC's. The new marketing people decided they didn't need the remaining techies so they all got fired and replaced with more people who spoke fluent 'marketing'. Marketing is a particular language which defines several terms like reliability, customer service contract and such hollow terms. This didn't really matter becuase the IT manager was expected to look for companies that knew these terms so they got on tremendously. The marketing people learned that they could actually charge for what should have been a normal return and replace faulty goods policy if they gave a certificate. They also learned that IT managers have budgets and the best way to get their product sold was to offer to present the case to senior management themselves whilst distributing incentives in the terms of bribes (sorry sample products) to those concerned. Compaq went through phases of doing its best to screw its customers by providing (IBM-compatible) machines....just so long as you bought the parts from Compaq. They treid many stragegies... Firstly they would use TORX srews.... make it impossible for you to open the case..... then they would pay more for the graphics card to be made by someone who knew how to make graphics cards and have them customise it to it would ONLY work in a compaq. Now the graphics chipsets manufacturers knew all sorts of techy stuff and could have provided lots of mechanisms only Compaq didn't have anyone who actually understood what they were talking about... So the solution.... Take the standard PC slot and modify it. Ive seen Compaq's with all sorts of funny shaped slots. The idea being a standard ISA/PCI card Won't FIT. The easiest way was to make it a key-shape. Again, a decent screwdriver and you can take off the backplate and replace the board with a standard board from a standard backplate. Compaq are to non techy to implement anything more advanced becuase they couldn't design a motherboard if they were given the plans and whitepapers. They tried all sorts of 'tricks' to stop the consumer being able to buy replacement parts off the shelf but luckily they were too technically incapable of ever implementing something that a technical minded person couldn't defeat in 10 minutes. What they did do that is hard to defeat is their personalisation... Take a HP/Compaq/IBM.... The most important thing for the marketers is the branding... So in order to make it look like their generic PC is designed in house they pay the BIOS manufactuerers (Award/AMI/Phoenix) to make it display a splash logo. Whilst they are at it they mod a few things they think are important and despite the BIOS manufacturer wearning them this has serious consequences generally hack it up. My recent experience was a HP Pavillion I was trying to upgrade.... It had a generic motherboard which was very small and difficult to replace but still just a far-eastern clone motherboard.... But a large company (vivendi) apprached them to sell a few thousand to a certain spec. HP didn't have a French model with this spec but they had a german one which was pretty close. So they took the german model and got the bios manufacturer to add French bios support. Unfortunately they didn't care about the consequences...hence my problem. The original mobo takes 256MB DIMMS, up to 2 of them thus giving the chance of a reasonable system. The onboard 1MB shared memory graphics card is a pain but.... However, the cheap hack disabled the support for anything beyond the 64MB DIMMS. It also got rid of extraneous menu's, presumably to save on translation costs.... So the mobo manafacturer has the exact model number of the MOBO and a manual. Unfortunately HP got rid of half the BIOS options (like disabling the onboard graphics) and support for bigger DIMMS. Presumably this meant the translation was cheaper!!! They got rid of almost every option available like reseting the CMOS ... WHY??? Because they didn't understand what they were getting rid of. They threw out the baby with the bathwater. Just try the unoffical sites for this type of machine .... everyone has the same problem. The mobo manufacturer refuses to supoprt a product HP or Compaq have deliberately hacked apart. and HP/Compaq don't give a %%%%. They don't wahnt you to upgrade, they want you to buy another.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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