Article in The Toronto Star about Linux & Mandrake

[Desire]

Since I live in Toronto this is really close to home. The article is about a university student that tried

out Linux at home, 0 experience and tried to set it up to dual-boot on his dad's computer with Windoze.

Read the article and see what you make of it. Is The Star going to get a feedback letter you ask? You bet!!

Anyway here is the link from Linux.org if you would like to read it

Link

 

Desire

Edited April 13, 2004 by Ixthusdan

[Darkelve]

Desire,

 

This is part of a larger article, see:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...ist974814650296

[Darkelve]

I spent some time on a reply to this article. While I think the author's intentions are good, a lot of the FUD/myths keep living on. I think there are a lot of good points in there, but please feel free to use it or improve on it.

 

Darkelve

------------------------------------

 

 

Dear 'The Star'

 

I would like to take a moment to respond to your article called 'Penguin's dream: Go

mainstream'. While I appreciate the fact that a subject like this is covered in mainstream media, there are still a couple of points that are, in my humble opinion, unfair.

 

First of all, you made non-technical people install Linux on a computer. Linux installs of late are no more difficult than Windows installs. However, on most PC's, Windows is already pre-installed. Of course Windows will hold an advantage like this. For your information,

 

there are PC's available with a pre-installed Linux distributions, e.g. from HP. See

 

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF...-f9-337529.html.

 

Or laptops from LinuxCertified:

http://www.linuxcertified.com/

 

Secondly, only one 'flavor' of Linux is used for the test. What flavor of Windows were your testers using? Windows 2000, Windows 98? Windows XP, Windows 95? Further, there are an incredible number of different Linux distributions available, which allow for more choice.

 

When someone who desires to have a computer with Linux installed, they STILL have to pay for the windows license, EVEN when the system comes without any OS installed. I ask you:

 

where is the choice in that? A couple of other distro's worth considering would be SuSe, Xandros or Lindows.

 

Thirdly, many of the advantages of using Linux only become apparent after a longer time of using it. You just cannot use it for a couple of days and then have seen everything it has to offer. The fact that the order arrived late, and accompanied by another persons invoice;

 

and the fact that Mandrake has financial problems -from which they are recovering- makes perhaps for an interesting bit of information, but tells more about the purchasing process than about the quality of the distro itself.

 

I will be cautious to say this, but dual-boots normally work very well and if it did not

for Casey, this is probably due to a mistake on his part. In normal circumstances, at

startup, you are given an option to choose between the different installed operating

systems.

 

Next, the problem of accessing certain websites. Linux, or any included browser, is not to blame. Konqueror uses Khtml as a rendering engine, which is the *same* as Apple's Safari browser. Which means many Apple users also would not be able to visit the website. Many websites are 'only' tested against IE, which may alienate a lot of users using a different product, such as Konqueror, Mozilla, Opera, Safari, ...

 

Then, the following statement: "Linux crashed less than Windows". If properly installed, it *should not* crash at all. Linux systems are known to run without crashing for months, even years. And a crashing application never brings down the Operating System.

 

Again, it is unfair to judge Linux by its support for whatever hardware the user has lying around. A smart shopper always checks if the product he is going to buy is compatible with what he is going to use it for. Do you just grab batteries out of the rack, put them in your watch at home and then complain when they do not work? Why should it be any different

 

for buying hardware? The fact that Linux supports such a huge variety of hardware, without (a lot) of vendor support, is an amazing feat by itself. Of course, you might get away with that if everyone is using the *same* watch. Notice a trend here?

 

I am further surprised by the fact that Mr. Palmer spotted the 'what do you want to

do'-menu, but missed the thematical menu structure which takes up the top half of the menu box. It goes against years of computer experience, yes: Windows experience. Personally, I am tired to hear again and again that 'Windows' is a synonym for 'better' whenever compared to something else. There are a lot of things in Windows that do not make sense either, but we have just gotten used to them.

 

Next point. Taste is a subjective thing. In Linux, it is easy to tailor your system exactly* to your liking. If one does not like the icons, wallpaper, colors, window

decoration, or whatever component in e.g. KDE, a simple trip to www.kde-look.org would give you more choice than you can shake a stick at, for free.

 

When it comes to asking questions, I have to disagree again. I found there are a LOT of places to get helpful information on the web. Responses are usually very quick and to the point. Several persons really get out of their way to help solving a problem. Some helpful forums I can think of are LinuxQuestions.org and Mandrakeusers.org.

 

As a final point, Linux users are *not* hippies. I know that is not what was said litterally, but one could easily misunderstand. the Linux/Open Source community is a

worldwide community consisting of many different nationalities, personalities and

professions.

 

I will resume my conlusions now:

1. It is unfair to compare a yet-to-be installed Linux distro with a pre-installed version of Windows.

 

2. The article ignores there are many different flavors of Linux, as there are several

'flavors' (versions) of Windows

3. It is not really fair to compare years of Windows experience with a couple of weeks of Linux experience.

 

4. A lot of websites are only tested with Internet Explorer in mind. This is hardly the

fault of the web browsers. Open Source browsers, like Mozilla, tend to have far better support for standards anyway. Should Explorer choose to follow those standards, we would now be able to e.g. use transparency on different layers with the PNG format on our websites. See following links:

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/pngopacity/

http://www.petitiononline.com/msiepng/petition.html

 

5. Logistics have nothing to do with the functionality of the distribution itself.

 

6. Linux almost never crashes. It might if you are tweaking a lot at the lower levels, but then again doing that suggests you know what you know what you are doing. Which, of course, goes the same for Windows.

 

7. If you shop smart when buying hardware, you will probably never experience any problems at all. Having hardware lying around and expecting it to 'just work' is not a very objective attitude.

 

8. A lot of the 'ease-of-use' in Windows comes from elimination of choices. Of course it would be easier for everyone if there was just one vendor of watches. But would it also be a better sitution to be in? Further, for those time you actually *want* choice, you are often left high and dry. Want to do online banking but don't want to use the bug-ridden, virus-prone Internet Explorer? Well, chances are, if you use another, safer, web browser, you cannot do your online banking anymore! This due to ignorance on the part of the banking company by testing for IE only.

 

9. The Linux community is very responsive and helpful, usually providing responses to a 'standard' (non-specialized) question the day itself!

 

10. The Linux community does not consist of hippies. It does also not consist only of

programmers, although there are a lot of those. There is a place for everyone and

co-operation, community building and contributing are an essential part of this.

 

As a final note, an exquisite resource for debunking several Linux myths -by numbers- can be found here:

 

http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html

 

Yours sincerely,

 

x

Edited April 13, 2004 by Darkelve

[Sarissi]

All in all, I think it is a fair article. As a long time Windows/MS-DOS user, it takes a while to get used to. However, once you do get used to the Linux way, there is NO going back to Windows as a primary OS!!

 

Linux has a way of growing on you.

 

The addiction process:

 

You hear of Linux or see it in a store.

You get an attack of Curiosity

You do a bit of research on the Web (if your are smart enough)

You learn where likely hardware problem areas are

You are seriously considering trying out Linux

You get a copy of the appropriate Distro for your needs and hardware

IF you have manual(s), you take time to read them before attempting to install (always a good Idea)

Once you have it installed an working properly, you use it to learn and play around in.

After some time, you find yourself using Linux almost exclusively

Thou Art Addicted to Linux

You have forgotten how to do things in Windows!

You have to re-install Windows and rediscover REBOOT hell!

Now you swear and consider swearing off Windows entirely.

Then you remember you have those Wndows games and specialty Apps, and start swearing again!!

 

Addiction Completed

[Gowator]

Linux has long enjoyed a following of hard-core home users who believe in the operating system with the fervor that the truly orthodox put into religion. But the software has yet to make the same impression on the masses.

While most computer users have heard of Linux and like the idea of using something other than Microsoft Windows, fear of an unknown holds them back.

"People have become very used to the interface that Microsoft Windows has presented," said Robert Brockway, a coordinator with the Toronto Linux User Group. "(Linux) is different from what they are used to."

Warren Shiau, manager of software research for IDC Canada, said consumers question whether Linux software offers any real advantages for the average home user.

Consider mousetraps, Shiau suggests. "Even if you invent a mousetrap that's two and a half times better than a pre-existing mousetrap . . . the question for consumers is, is the other one good enough?"

**Not at all a mousetrap that doesn't damage pets or children ? It depends HOW it is improved. A mousetrap that catches more mice or 2.5 times more mice might not offer advantages but one that won't take the finders off your toddler might be a compelling reason to buy one over another.

**However that is simply missing the point. Windows is in many cases a mousetrap that traps the fingers of the person using it. We'll make these as we continue. Most desktop computers come with a licensed version of Windows, so there has to be a compelling reason for a consumer to switch their operating system.

**Actually this is one of the most compelling reasons to change. The price of windows has already been charged on the computer and in order to make it do more, like word processing or other basic tasks more money must be spent.

Linux advocates such as Brockway believe that there are real benefits, even for average computer users.

Those looking to upgrade their existing operating system will find that Linux desktop software is typically far less expensive than comparable Microsoft products, for example. Some argue the system is more stable than Windows and plagued by fewer security problems. For people interested in tweaking their machines, Brockway says Linux is more flexible.

**It is not a case of Linux being more flexible, it is a case of Linux being completely flexible. If you don't like something in Linux you can change it. Ultimately you can write the programme yourself because the interface is completely open (unlike Windows) but this is not the case for most people. Instead many others have already done this and many choices exist. Desktop Linux software has developed an unfair reputation for being difficult to use, he said. He believes that notion is five years out of date. "Today I think it is very, very usable," he said.

**This is very true. I'm not even sure the reputation WAS unfair. 5 Years ago it was difficult to use, today it isn't. But does Linux have what it takes to win over computer users who grew up on Windows?

The Star put the software to that test, with the help of three twenty-somethings from the GTA. Ryann Andrade, Aprile Cadeau and Casey Palmer were interested in Linux but had never used it. We handed each a copy of MandrakeSoft's Discovery 9.2, selected because it's designed for beginners and liked by many Linux fans.

There are many different flavours (also called distributions) of Linux, each with its own bells and whistles. Discovery 9.2 comes with the Mandrake Linux operating system and a variety of software applications such as a Web browser, music player, word processor, e-mail program, calendar and contact list — in theory, everything the average computer user needs.

The test was supposed to take three weeks, but MandrakeSoft bungled the order. When the software arrived late, it was accompanied by someone else's invoice.

While the Linux community apparently appreciates MandrakeSoft's products, the company is still grappling with financial problems. Clearly, logistics remain a challenge for the company as well.

We asked each participant to install the software and use it as much as possible for two weeks. They were also given a manual, to help guide them through the learning process.

The results were surprising.

**In fact their was no need to BUY the discovery edition. Indeed the download edition is the same but is free to be downloaded. Buying the official version is good becuase it is supporting the company but the reason it can be downloaded for free is because of people who want to try.

Linux 'good ... it could be better'

Casey Palmer had planned to run both Windows and Linux on his home computer, but the machine had other ideas at first. After he partitioned the hard drive and installed MandrakeSoft's Linux Discovery 9.2, he couldn't figure out how to get Windows running again.

"Windows was completely inaccessible for a few days," he said. "I was really freaking out."

His father wasn't too happy either.

**This must have been an error on his part. Of course its not good he was allowed to make that error BUT this is the point with Linux. Mandrake and most Linux distro's will coexist happily. If they find another OS on the machine like Windows or another distro. Try doing this with windows. This is the whole point with Linux and one of those points I said I'd make as we continue. At best windows will not provide any way to boot into the other operating system, at worst it will just completely overwrite it. Palmer had no problem logging on the Internet, but found he couldn't access some of his favorite sites using the Konqueror browser.

"My Dad couldn't access the TD Waterhouse Web site either. He couldn't check his stocks, which was not good," Palmer said.

**This is another compelling reason to use Linux. Konqueror uses the same engine as Apple's Safari. Any sites that do not work are due to either the site itself being written deliberately not to work with non-Microsoft browsers or because it uses non standard (standard being the International Internet standard W3W ).

**The deliberate one takes some explaining. Indeed, its rather technical and something most users probably don't want or need to know about. Briefly, Internet Explorer has a long history of severe security issues. In Linux these would be patched but the Microsoft way is to release another version. Literally hundreds of these exist. So if a serious security flaw exists with version 3.2 for online banking for instance the website might check that the browser is a later version than 3.2. This is a legitimate reason BUT unfortunately this faculty is abused.

**Basically the code says if this is NOT Internet Explorer version 3.2.1 or higher then refuse. What it should say is If the browser is Internet Explorer 3.2.0 or lower then refuse to load. It sounds the same except the latter allows people with Apple or Linux or other operating systems except MS to visit the site. When the sites are made using Microsoft tools they are often the former rule rather than the latter. Is this deliberate ? Who knows but yet another compelling reason to use linux. (or Apple or.....) because the security flaw never existed in Linux.

**Another way to look at it is this, in a world dominated by Microsoft with only one browser a hacker only has one browser to hack at. They know version x.x.x had security flaw y etc. so it becomes a simple matter to exploit these flaws. When other browsers exist these are generally safer; if only because they are not targeted in the same way as Microsoft browsers by 'hackers'.

**Those sites using non-standard code are also generally bad because the internet itself is simply a set of standards. This is how it works, how you type in the address and it just works because it follows standards. Most Internet servers are not Microsoft, indeed even Microsoft has most of its servers for the internet running Linux or other UNIX like operating systems. The ability to use a cell phone or PDA to surf only works because of standards. So sites using non standard code are breaking the internet in a small way. Once he had both operating systems working, Palmer said he noticed that Linux was very stable. It crashed less than Windows, he said.

**Indeed, most Linux machines will run for months or years without ever crashing. However this takes getting used to. People who grew up with windows often reboot because they feel they must but it simply isn't needed in Linux unless you upgrade the version. Palmer had no trouble connecting his tiny digital camera, either. (He gave the software a low score on software installation, however, because he had some problems getting his printer to work and suspects he'd encounter more problems with other hardware components.)

**Well, this is tricky. Certain hardware is hard to get working under Linux. Usually this is what is best described as half-way hardware. Its known as WinPrinter or WinModem. what this means is the device is not complete. The processing part has been removed to make the device cheaper and offloaded on a program which runs on your PC. Initially these were windows only because the missing part of the printer/modem was a windows programme but like everything else the programmers who use linux simply wrote there own programmes. And because this is linux they share these. Best of all they share the code so someone else can use what they wrote and modify it for a different model or improve it.

 

He found the flexibility of the operating system a bit daunting though. While Microsoft makes assumptions about how things should look and act, Linux is highly customizable.

"With Linux there are so many options it's a bit overwhelming."

**This really is true. The easiest way for a new Linux user (noobie) to cope with this is just to use the defaults for now. With time they often choose to customize but its just an option. Remember when you buy a car options are extra, with Linux they are built in!

When installing Discovery 9.2, users are faced with their first big decision: what graphical desktop software do they want to use? Discovery 9.2 comes with a couple of options and the decision greatly affects the look and feel of their desktop. All three of our testers said they chose the K Desktop Environment (KDE) because it looked the most like Windows.

"It still took a lot of getting used to," said the 20-year-old York University student.

**Well, looking familiar is a good reason. That is one of the beauties of Linux that you can choose. Its possible to customize the KDE desktop until it look just like XP or windows 2000, its fun to do but strangly many people do it then decide they preferred something else. Personally I choose a Mac OS-X like interface. One thing that particularly disconcerted him was how the Start Menu was organized. Instead of listing programs by their name (such as Outlook, PowerPoint or Word) applications were listed by function. When he wanted to find a video game, for example, he had to select Play Games. It's a system that he admits, seems like it would be more intuitive. But it goes against years of computer experience.

"When you've been using Windows for 10 years, it's kind of odd." Palmer isn't sure it makes a lot of sense to switch to Linux.

**Well, if he has ten years experience perhaps he remembers Lotus or WordPerfect. Of course the world has become dominated by a few products with 'improvements and 'new features' no one wanted.

**I know very few people who use more than 10% of Excel functions or 20% of word but we now have incompatibility with older versions. Personally I remember word 2 in windows 3.1 doing almost everything I needed in a word processor. The ggrammarchecker is neat but little else has been added I really wanted since 1994. This is rather close to the mousetrap aarguamentused earlier! However, your still free to use whatever type of mousetrap you want. If you have a puppy or toddler perhaps you choose the modern one which costs a bit more but iifnot you can still use the old ffashionedone. Word doesn't give you that choice because you'll be eemailedword version XX documents. As a business your choice is even less real.

Ryann made some interesting observations on this.

"I'm torn. It's good but I know it could be better," Palmer said.

He appreciates the stability of the software, but he also wants to be able to surf the Web in its entirety — not just the sites Konqueror can handle.

 

`I'll use Windows, primarily'

Like the rest of our participants, Ryann Andrade decided to partition her hard drive so she could run Windows and Linux on the same machine. She found the entire installation process a snap. She estimates it took her less than half an hour to get the operating system up and running.

**So it does work, perhaps setting it up dual boot is just a middle to advanced topic, again windows offers no choice on this at all. She admits though, that as a professional Web developer her computer skills are slightly above average. (She was easily the most computer savvy of our three participants.) She was also very keen to read up on the software and learn how to tweak it to her liking.

After reading the manual cover to cover, Andrade tried the OpenOffice software that comes with Discovery 9.2. OpenOffice is similar to Microsoft Office: Linux lovers use it to type up documents, design charts, format spreadsheets and put together presentations.

Andrade had no trouble using it to type up some simple documents and was pleasantly surprised she didn't have to jump through any hoops to use her printer.

"It even recognized that my printer does double-sided pages," said 24-year-old Andrade.

**This is all part of the usability that Linux has gained in the last 5 years. She wasn't too impressed with the look and feel of her desktop, however.

"I was kind of thrown off by the icons because I didn't think they were as intuitive as the ones in Windows," she said.

The e-mail icon, for example, looks like an "orange tower".

**Well, we are so used to the Windows Icons, when we changed to Lotus Notes in wwindowsat work lots of people had problems, just because the icons were not Microsoft ones. A month later and nno onenotices. Trying to get the e-mail software set up to handle multiple accounts was also tricky, she said, though she did get it working in the end.

**This is really a documentation problem. There are many mail clients in Linux and since Ryann was happy with Mozilla Firefox as a browser perhaps she would prefer Mozilla thunderbird as her mail client. (see below)Her digital camera proved problematic as well. The operating system only recognized it as an external hard drive and not a camera with pictures. She could access the photos on the camera from her computer but she couldn't delete them.

**Well, actually she could but they were protected.

Andrade's biggest beef was with the Web browser.

Discovery 9.2 comes with a browser called Konqueror, but Andrade didn't like the way it displayed fonts. Web pages just didn't look right, she said. So Andrade quickly replaced the browser with her old ffavorite Mozilla Firefox. Once she had the Linux version of Firefox, Andrade said surfing the Web was as good as ever.

At the end of our two-week test, Andrade said she enjoyed learning about new software but wasn't completely sold.

"I might keep Linux around as a secondary operating system," she said. "But I'll use Windows primarily."

**What Ryann was missing was something she was familiar with and two weeks wasn't time. Linux and Mandrake in particular have great online support, so if you can get a web browser working you have great support. Ryann sounds like someone who would see many advantages in Linux and therefore I will make her an offer. A years FREE support for Mandrake wwhileshe gets comfortable and finds more and more advantages. All she needs to do is go to www.mandrakeusers.org to receive her free support. Actually that is all anyone need do. Its 100% free and 100% friendly.

 

Rough launch led to smooth sailing

Aprile Cadeau is an average computer user. She sends e-mail, surfs the Web and types up assignments for school.

But the University of Toronto student had never installed an operating system before she got her copy of Discovery 9.2 last month.

She considers her initiation into the world of installation rather horrific.

"It was terrible. Sooooo stressful!" Cadeau said. "I read the whole manual but I just couldn't get it on."

In fact, Cadeau spent the bulk of the test period just trying to get the darn software to work.

She tried installing it on two different computers but each time she wound up with nothing but cryptic error messages. Cadeau said she tried a bunch of different solutions and nothing worked.

She even posted a question on a MandrakeSoft forum and found that many others were experiencing the same problem but no one had the solution.

"I was just going nuts. I had to use my Dad's computer for awhile," she said.

The 22-year-old eventually gave up and had her friend install it instead.

But the nightmare installation didn't sour her on the software.

She was, in fact, the most enthusiastic of the testers.

"I absolutely loved OpenOffice! The whole system reminded me a lot of Windows XP," Cadeau said. "It was totally easy to use because it was all just really familiar. It was like a cooler version of (Microsoft Office)."

Cadeau particularly liked the word processing software. She found it much easier to format her essays.

"I really think it's much better than Microsoft Word."

There were no problems connecting her printer either.

She couldn't get her modem working though, but she suspects that's because it's a homemade device whipped up by her uncle.

Andrade said the experience has really piqued her interest in Linux.

"I'm definitely going to keep it on my computer," she said.

She's heard that Linux is less prone to viruses and other security problems, which will be especially important once she buys a new modem and is able to log on to the Internet.

As a leftist majoring in political science, Andrade also appreciates the idea behind the software and that anyone can potentially read and modify the source code.

"I like the political hippy-ness of it, the fact that the community is working together to try to make the software better."

**Aprile, you should come and visit www.mandrakeusers.org. You'll find a great community and endless help

[arthur]

/etc/gowator.conf

 

#the -v option sets the verbosity level

 

post -v 100

 

EOF

:D

[Darkelve]

All in all, I think it is a fair article.

I disagree.

 

I agree the INTENT was certainly to be fair, accurate and all that, but there are several misconceptions about Linux throughout the article. In the minds of the persons trying it out, as well as in some of the conclusions the author reaches.

 

Misconceptions like this one keep living on in the real world and in the mainstream media. Like that old urban legend that just won't die.

 

When you are talking about Linux I think it is good to have the whole perspective. Linux just does not enjoy the luxury windows does in terms of e.g. hardware/OEM support, collection of available applications etc. But to make a comparison on that basis is not objective.

 

Also, good points Gowator.

Edited April 13, 2004 by Darkelve

[Gowator]

/etc/gowator.conf

 

#the -v option sets the verbosity level

 

post -v 100

 

EOF

:D

arthur,

I included the article with my comments in italic !

:D

 

darkelve,

Yes its a shame ....

I think they tried to be fair but sucummed to the myths....

 

Its VERY hard for them to win....

They seem to have wanted to give it a fair go but they were uncertain how to ...

 

The problem is the 'observations' are valid observations by the users.... since they wanted to test applicability of linux to non techy complete noobies

so this is GOOD.

 

But if they had access to mandrakeusers.org then I expect they would have a different perspective.

 

Its not really fair to say they tested unfairly, they just were not aware of the resources...

 

What is VERY important is that the official Mandrake support has managed to loose a linux user!

She even posted a question on a MandrakeSoft forum and found that many others were experiencing the same problem but no one had the solution.

 

It is also relevant that Mandrakesoft bungled the order.

 

AS I KEEP SAYING ... MANDRAKE IS RESPONSIBLE NOT ONLY FOR LOOSING POTENTIAL MANDRAKE USERS BUT ALSO POTENTIAL LINUX USERS ...

 

 

Once again they bungle the delivery .. (no surprise there)

then they round it off with the 'official support' ....

 

 

And all of this for a great product !!!

[Darkelve]

darkelve,

Yes its a shame ....

I think they tried to be fair but sucummed to the myths....

 

Its VERY hard for them to win....

They seem to have wanted to give it a fair go but they were uncertain how to ...

 

The problem is the 'observations' are valid observations by the users....  since they wanted to test applicability of linux to non techy complete noobies

so this is GOOD. 

 

But if they had access to mandrakeusers.org then I expect they would have a different perspective. 

 

Its not really fair to say they tested unfairly, they just were not aware of the resources...

 

What is VERY important is that the official Mandrake support has managed to loose a linux user! 

She even posted a question on a MandrakeSoft forum and found that many others were experiencing the same problem but no one had the solution.

 

It is also relevant that Mandrakesoft bungled the order.

 

AS I KEEP SAYING ... MANDRAKE IS RESPONSIBLE NOT ONLY FOR LOOSING POTENTIAL MANDRAKE USERS BUT ALSO POTENTIAL LINUX USERS ...

 

 

Once again they bungle the delivery .. (no surprise there)

then they round it off with the 'official support' ....

 

 

And all of this for a great product !!!

I agree, this article is VERY interesting. I think these people are also open to our feedback, which is why I think somebody should reply.

 

 

As you said:

 

It is also relevant that Mandrakesoft bungled the order. 

 

AS I KEEP SAYING ... MANDRAKE IS RESPONSIBLE NOT ONLY FOR LOOSING POTENTIAL MANDRAKE USERS BUT ALSO POTENTIAL LINUX USERS ...

 

 

Once again they bungle the delivery .. (no surprise there)

then they round it off with the 'official support' ....

 

 

And all of this for a great product !!!

 

makes you wanna cry, doesn't it... ;(

[aRTee]

All in all, these people should first have read my first two 'opinion' articles.

Switching with success and learning linux. The first would have helped them to determine if they are ready, the second on how to deal with problems, how/where to find solutions.

 

 

There is a lot to be had by using linux:

no/fewer virus problems (emails with trojans? right..)

Free(dom) Software

full control

no contributing to an illegal monopoly

no autodialers

etcetc (read the switching article),

though none of this shows through in the article. Pitty.

[DragonMage]

Note, that the test is using Mandrake 9.2 discovery edition, not Full edition. The discovery edition imo is more of a demo edition, it doesn't show the full power of linux desktop.

I also notice that one of the tester never installed an OS in her life. Of course she will have trouble. In fact, about 80% of the computer users never install the OS themselves by hand. They always go to a "computer guy" to install it for them. ( I should know, I am one of the "computer guy").

And intuitive is relative. I think there is a slashdotter that states that the only intuitive interface is the nipple. Everything else is learned. You learn on windows, you will get confused with anything other than windows. Heck.. tell them to go back to windows 3.1 and see confusion in their faces.

 

Good catch on the mandrakeusers.org board though.. I missed that part the first read around (I was busy flipping cds).

 

Anyway, I think I would use PclinuxOS preview 5 installed in their harddrive for a trial run instead of Mandrake 9.2 Discovery. Heck, Mandrake 9.2.1 is better choice since most of the critical updates are already there and there is still mozilla for people who hate konqueror.

[Ixthusdan]

I remember when computer techs were making fun of windex, and the pretty pictures. Of coiurse, these folks used various dos, unix, and command line os's. Windex overcame that with marketing. Yes, we never think about what Gates had to do to get where he is. He had to market the product. And then, he had to answer technical questions, which they were lousy at! So, they came up with the brilliant idea to have the vendors install the os, and not the users.

 

It is a brick wall. Mandrake absolutely refuses to market effectively and to have anything like a customer service department. It was a major step that they ever acknowledged this particular web sight. Yes, I'm afraid I must agree that the real culprit in this article is not the paper, not the users, not the writers, and not even windex. It's Mandrake!!!! :unsure:

 

AAAAAAHHHHHHH!

 

It makes me want to scream. :lol:

[aRTee]

Go ahead and read the tomshardware article on switching to linux -- it explains how to install programs by finding rpm's via rpmfind and then hunting down dependencies....

 

Now that makes me want to scream!

 

Other than that, yes I fully agree, for linux to get even with windows, it must get preinstalled preconfigured on the shelves.

Looking at that (still) with Mdk10.0OE - the real final :D

 

HP is doing it in Asia, soon Europe will follow. Soon in a relative sense, it may not be this year...

Until then, we must keep helping out anyone jumping ship by themselves.

 

Still, too bad the negative aspects of windows and using it are not highlighted at all, and only some of the positive aspects of linux...

[brkville42NY]

it kinda seems like a half-hearted attempt to bash Linux.

 

 

 

OUT

[gmac]

You are being rather uncharitable. It takes to get to know the ins and outs of linux or windows-it would be interesting to see how they got on installing windows on a fresh computer its every bit as awkward if things go wrong and you don't know what has happened-if it doesn't detect the hardware how do you sort it?

 

The whole point is that most people have got comfortable with windows and have learned to cope with the eccentricities

 

"One thing that particularly disconcerted him was how the Start Menu was organized. Instead of listing programs by their name (such as Outlook, PowerPoint or Word) applications were listed by function. When he wanted to find a video game, for example, he had to select Play Games. It's a system that he admits, seems like it would be more intuitive. But it goes against years of computer experience."

 

What he is not pointing out is if you don't know the name of the programme you want in windows you are stuffed, linux is more logical, windows more familiar. I remember the first time I used word I couldn't work out how to format the page because the last place I expected to find the necessary function was under file, its a stupidity you eventually learn is "NORMAL"

 

At least the guy sounded intriqued, maybe the next time he has to buy the newest version of MS office he will try an open source alternative instead