Nito Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 (edited) Being a newbie that have worked with Windows all of his life I was intrigued by Linux, finally I decided to buy and install Mandrake 9.2. From all the postings I've seen here I realized that there is too much to be done with Mandrake and with Linux in general. Even if everytime a new version is out, a clean installation has to be done as the ?upgrade? option doen't work! First, I haven't had big problems using Windows, I like it but really really want to learn to use Linux, but the thing that upsets me most about Linux is all the extra work you have to do to get anything done. It's all compile this, mount that, etc. Most of the time I cannot download the free stuff and just click and install it as software is offered in source code... Linux seems not to get the idea of plug and play yet. Recently took my CPU to a friend's house but Linux refused to use his monitor, it simply didn't work... If Mandrake is supposed to be the most user-friendly distribution I don't want to imagine how the others behave... The operating system is supposed to do the work for you, not the other way around. I'm one of those people that wants to switch my OS, but if Linux makes you work twice as hard to get anything going, it just defeats the purpose of the entire concept of the computer: speed! Please guys, don't get me wrong, I don't dislike Linux. I want to learn to use it but I think I'll wait until it is more flexible and easy to operate and more conpatible with everything under the sun. NOTE: moved to everything linux by tyme Edited March 5, 2004 by tyme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunni Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 (edited) Bear in mind that installing windows is often as hard - if not harder, but you never see that because it comes pre-installed. Also - what is a windows upgrade if not,basically, a complete re-install? The modular nature of Linux makes it a much more "upgradeable" OS than windows. Many distributions are more upgradeable than mandrake - but the advantage of Mandrake is that the install is so easy (in most cases) that you gain very little from an upgrade in terms of time or ease Edit: Windows is often just as unfriendly with monitors - my one works much better in Linux than it does in windows... Also - the main problem with Linux in my opinion, is the lack of support - as you say. This isn't, however, due to any inherant problem in the OS or something that's been missed out - it's because hardware manufacturers ignore Linux. It's a simple case of it lacking support while it's still a minority OS - hope fully this will change with time. Plus - you will learn so much more about your computer when you use Linux than you would have before Edited March 5, 2004 by phunni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghil Vertefeuille Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Configuring Linux and learning at the same time can prove that it can be difficult...but if you know where to look, you'll have much less work (the support here is excellent). After the configuring to your liking is done...Linux runs perfectly, at your liking, without any problems of sort. It worths the time you spent in configuring all that thing... I Also would like to point out my latest experience with Windows. like you, I was a windows users, until recently. I didn't have that many problem with the os, except in stability. But then, I wanted to try something new, so I choose to check Linux. Then, the first time I tried it, I was confused, and didn't kinda liked it, to be honest. then I wanted to switch back to Windows, and it's then that I realised all the trouble the Install gave me, all the trouble I had setting up everything, readjusting my ways of doing things to match the ol' windows way...and it's then I realised that finally, that it wasn't Linux who was difficult, but the way I used to use my comp. So the moral is, go back to Windows, realise that you where better in Linux and come back. nah, just kidding ;) It's just that every one as a way of doing things, and some can be better with windows, others with Linux...just give Linux a real chance and you'll see if you like it or not :P It's just my two cents, hope I didn't say anything wrong there :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 It's all compile this, mount that, etc. Most of the time I cannot download the free stuff and just click and install it as software is offered in source code... Like phunni said plus: No, no need to compile anything. Just install "binary packages": .rpm. Use MCC->RpmDrake. Very easy. Ok the geeks ;) use to compile but that's to fine tune there system or have some fancy stuff that don't come precompiled. But you are not forced to .. well, if your harware is supported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitor Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Hi, Just my input: I have been a long time Windoze user and still use it at work. Since almost I year ago I started to use Linux. And my experience is that you get a lot more apps to pick from, and you can do it without having to open your wallet in a legal way. I'm not at all a hero with the command line, and never compile from source. RPMDrake does the trick for me. Almost all apps I ever needed did exist in rpm. The other did at least exist in binary. That requires some command line, but it is not too difficult. I agree as well that the upgrade option is just not usefull. A fresh install is faster, and if you have your /home on a seperate partition and conserve it during the install, then there is nothing that the windows "upgrade" does better for you. In that case all your application's congfigs are conserved as well. So if that was the reason to go back to Windoze, just give it another try. There is a little learning to do, because Linux is not a copy of Windoze, but you get so much out of it. I'm not saying that Linux is better in all respects. I still do have some minor issues: 1. No userfriendly alternative to MS Access 2. Most games for our kids only run on Windoze (perhaps they run in Wine as well, but configuring Wine just seems not evident, so it would take time to try, and it just ain't priority enough). That are the reasons that I am still in dual boot. Ciao, Sitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 (edited) Even if everytime a new version is out, a clean installation has to be done as the ?upgrade? option doen't work Mandrake Update option is buggy, yes. I've never head a problem w/it, but many others report issues. There are other distro's which can be upgraded successfully. Also, it's very easy to keep your /home partition intact and do a complete reinstall, while keeping all personal settings intact. Most of the time I cannot download the free stuff and just click and install it as software is offered in source code... Completely incorrect. Most programs can be found on various Mandrake mirrors with prebuilt RPMS that you can just click and install. Mandrake Control Center -> Software -> Various tools for using this. Linux seems not to get the idea of plug and play yet. Recently took my CPU to a friend's house but Linux refused to use his monitor, it simply didn't work... Simple, run xfdrake and change monitor settings. If Mandrake is supposed to be the most user-friendly distribution I don't want to imagine how the others behave... I'm sure you would. I bet the terminal scares the bajeebers out of ya I want to learn to use it but I think I'll wait until it is more flexible and easy to operate and more conpatible with everything under the sun for linux to be compatible with "everything under the sun" linux has to become a standard. for linux to become a standard, people w/views similar to yourself have to start using it. for people w/views similar to yourself to start using it, linux has to become a standard, for............ infinite loops suck. The operating system is supposed to do the work for you, not the other way around hm, Linux does do work for you....go take a peak at Linux From Scratch, then come back and tell me Mandrake doesn't do anything for you. Hell, just take a look at gentoo/arch/slackware/etc! Linux has it's goods and bads, but one thing you MUST understand is that while you have to learn some things to work with it well, you don't have to:Defrag your hard drive Worry about viruses Worry about MS keeping tabs on you If you like Windows, more power to you, but don't dis Linux just because you didn't take the time to fully understand how it works (which was made obvious with your apparent belief that you must compile every program). Plus, this is your first and only post to this forum, which makes it obvious you did not attempt to ask for help or any sort of direction on things. You may have done things in a much harder way that was necessary. If something didn't work, or you had an issue, you should've asked for help. We here to help people learn to use Linux, so ask questions! Edited March 5, 2004 by tyme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowFoxLSU Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 In Relpy to #1 Humm, truthfullu why are you worried about updating? Unlike Windows you cant update everypeice individually. ot through apt/yum/portage the whole system at once. MDK is easier to install than say slackware, debian, or BSD (BSD is not linux, but it is a free UNIX) but lacks yum/apt-get (yes urpmi is there, I dont like it -- I've destryoed my system one to many times with it). I would like to encourgae you to try out Debian, Fedora and FreeBSD. You will learn a lot, but you will also find one that suits you well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdemers883 Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Although I"m a linux newbie (glad to be one) here is how I view the situation: If you are happy with a mediocre product, not having total control of your system, viruses, more holes than swiss cheese, and a resource hog then stick with windoz. If you like having total control of your system, not having your choices limited, having a plethora of software to choose from, and stability then stick with linux. I've always been a windows user, and granted I'm still much faster/efficient with windoz than I am with linux I still prefer linux. I enjoy tweaking it and breaking it, the more I do that the more I learn and the more fun I have. Linux definately isn't for everybody, but I'm definately glad I'm making my effort to be better with linux than I am with windoz. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 First, I haven't had big problems using Windows, I like it but really really want to learn to use Linux, but the thing that upsets me most about Linux is all the extra work you have to do to get anything done. kinda contradicting, eh? Sounds to me like you want to use linux, not learn it. Learning it involves all the dislikes you've mentioned. You don't really learn to use a windows os. You only get to play on the surface a bit. Linux must me learned, and it's intended to be that way. Transparent.... for you to destroy if ya like. Have fun in win.....kick back and enjoy the extra time it give ya ;) ....that's what I've been doing lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anon Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Have fun in win.....kick back and enjoy the extra time it give ya ;) ....that's what I've been doing lately :o :o :o ......... :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 kick back and enjoy the extra time it give ya ;) ....that's what I've been doing lately ah yes, the extra time it gives you when you're defragging the hard drive for the 3rd time this month! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nito Posted March 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 (edited) First I want to say that tyme and some other guys sounded a little rude and making laugh at me... Is this how you want me to come back to the forum and ask for help ???? no thanks. When I say that most software has to be compiled is because, for example, just to point one, when some days ago I tried to download the latest version for Xmms it clearly said that the RPM file is only suitable for RedHat/Fedora. and for other distributions the source was given. So how do you think a newbie should feel or think about it??? OK, a real user/hacker must take the risk and try to install it.. but a totally newbie like me feels lost! Also the monitor problem IS an issue to me as I was used that after LILO seeing the Login screen but instead I got the monitor lights blinking. What was I supposed to do if I am used to have NO PROBLEMS with the Plug&Play feature in Windows. I clearly said that I am a Windows user. Well, the Upgrade option is an issue to me as I have just one partition for Linux. Remember I am a newbie. I let Mandrake do the installation for me and it just copied everything into one partition and when tried to copy my /home directory to a Windows partition I got messages about not having access or permitions. Even in root mode. Lucky you tyme for not having problems with the upgrade option in Linux. As I have read in a recent topic that many users have the problem and they don't even use it. One suggested to hide the option and be offered just to advanced users. I hope everyone have your luck tyme. To bvc sounds contradicting what I said. Please understand that I come from Microsoft and Microsoft-like enviroments and I am used (after more than 15 years) to do things in some way. I come with my mind set in a way of working and landing in Linux seems to be different eventhough Linux is trying to attract Windows users by behaving (at least in the GUI part) more and more like Windows. Other forum member: "If you are happy with a mediocre product, not having total control of your system, viruses, more holes than swiss cheese, and a resource hog then stick with windoz. If you like having total control of your system, not having your choices limited, having a plethora of software to choose from, and stability then stick with linux." Mediocre product? Viruses?... I haven't had any big problems with windows. Nor the viruses or the security holes have ever affected me in anyway. You probably are talking about the people who run servers. I dont't want you to think that I am a MS Windows defender but I get all the control I want from Windows (from a user perspective). About the software...mmm... have you ever run Kazaa or Imesh to find the software you want? ... * * * * * * * * * * * * * tymes quotes: "for linux to be compatible with "everything under the sun" linux has to become a standard. for linux to become a standard, people w/views similar to yourself have to start using it. for people w/views similar to yourself to start using it, linux has to become a standard, for............ infinite loops suck." Well, I believe Linux wants to be an alternative to Windows right? even the GUI is getting closer to Windows or MAC. What standard are you talking about if Linux wants to attract Windows users turning itself a Windows-like OS? Windows is the standard and Linux should get closer to that. When Linux is more like Windows and become a standard, only then Linux can do whatever it likes and the users must adapt to it (like Windows users. It sucks but it is the way it works). "If you like Windows, more power to you, but don't dis Linux just because you didn't take the time to fully understand how it works (which was made obvious with your apparent belief that you must compile every program)" When arriving to Windows, the user (or "luser" how you may call us) first learns to copy, move, paste. Basic stuff. Few days or hours later learns to install software (as most users cannot live without MSN Messenger for example) and it's just a matter of double-click on the file and it's ready to go. It doesn't work the same way with all software in Linux. "Linux does do work for you....go take a peak at Linux From Scratch, then come back and tell me Mandrake doesn't do anything for you. Hell, just take a look at gentoo/arch/slackware/etc" Don't have time, money or resources to download gentoo, arch, slackware, etc. and give them a try. But I have heard that Suse does a good work too... "Plus, this is your first and only post to this forum" You were not right. I am posting a new message but this is gonna be the last one thanks to replies like yours and all the moderators and administrator who run this website/forum. Edited March 5, 2004 by Nito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 (edited) First I want to say that tyme and some other guys sounded a little rude and making laugh at me... Is this how you want me to come back to the forum and ask for help ???? no thanks. ok, let me explain something to you. if you want help, you don't come into a forum full of people who like a certain thing, and then proceed to rip apart the very thing the forum exists for in your very first post (that's called trolling, and isn't tolerated on most forums). you come and you ask questions, you don't attack the very purpose of the forum. you make no friends w/a first post such as the one you've made, that was NOT the type of first impression one wants to make. if you have problems, ASK QUESTIONS, don't just complain about them! We expect you to come to the forum and ask questions to resolve your problems, not come to the forum to complain. If you wanted help, this post certainly wasn't a good way of asking for it. btw-my apologies if i sounded rude, but you certainly didn't seem like someone who was really interested in the answers. you've posted twice, and already you're blaming the admins and mods when you've only encountered one (me). oh, and if you managed to get past my apparent rudeness, maybe you saw that i was still kind enough to provide you with some possible solutions to a few of the problems which you stated you had? you're welcome. Edited March 5, 2004 by tyme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 "I didn't have that many problem with the os, except in stability. But then, " Yeah its really good once you learn all the tricks you need to know to stop it freezing on you and learn that when things start slowing time its time to pause and do some maintenance to keep it going. Its really good being able to buy programmes that uninstall things properly for you because windows doesn't and those special fault finding programmes are really really good. Then its fun to update your office suite because the old one you have doesn't work with the newest version that people are sending you. But you need the old one as well in case somebody sends you a document from an old office app. What's PDF? windows doesn't have it so thats another £200 for adobe acrobat. alternatively go to pdf.com and download a converter. Having said that I know what you mean. Having gone through the learning curve with windows is it worth doing it again with a different operating system? My choice is windows XP or one of the Linux distributions. Since a computer is an essential tool now I prefer one where i can learn about what is going on as I use it. Who am I kidding I just want one that works. The thing is I can have built three new computers and put a different linux distribution on each one for the price of one preinstalled windows computer. If you don't want to switch to linux then try the open source software like open office, or if you need an equivalent of access etc try star office. a fraction of the price and much better. If you are buying your own computer have a look at the cost of your next upgrade. If you use the office suites have a look at the cost of the full professional suite. in the UK its £450 as against star office £60. (Its a pity they called it star office in the name smacks of the cheap and nasty.) I'll save my £450 and spend it on a back up computer just in case the windows one I'm still using fails on me completely. The learning curve for linux is maybe a but steeper but I think it will take you further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 (edited) About the software...mmm... have you ever run Kazaa or Imesh to find the software you want? ... btw-this is illegal and the forum does not support such acts. also, it is a very good way to get a virus in windows. my friend has infact received many viruses from executables he has downloaded off of kazaa. you may not have gotten any viruses, Nito, but consider yourself lucky, because there's about 20 viruses (and that's just the most recent ones!) out there right now being sent around in emails (i believe the statistics where 1 in every 9 emails to pass through a filter was infected w/one of the new windows viruses) and do NOT just effect servers, in fact they target desktop systems. Learn about the most recent windows virii: http://www.eweek.com/category2/0,1738,1476468,00.asp Edited March 5, 2004 by tyme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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