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OpenSUSE 10.2 is ready


dexter11
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As much as I would like to support some of the OpenSuse deves because they have nothing to do with Novell, it sucks. They have a lot of talent and there $$(managers)$$ are crap. They really should move on.

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As much as I would like to support some of the OpenSuse deves because they have nothing to do with Novell, it sucks. They have a lot of talent and there $$(managers)$$ are crap. They really should move on.

I agree.... they need to make a clean cut ... perhaps Novell will do it for them in changing all the distro names to SLED XXX ??? I am fully behind the "Open" part.... its the tenuous and not well defined link to Novell gives me a bad feeling...

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Let's just judge OpenSuSe on its merits for now, not on emotional/ethical/... arguments. OpenSuSe is not identical

to the commercial offerings of Novell, although I do realize

they have a lot of impact on it.

 

Besides, this release can't really have all that much "M$ IP" in it, now can it? Maybe this is the last SuSe I will try out as well, I'm not sure, but for now I'm just interested to see how good/bad 10.2 turned out to be.

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Let's just judge OpenSuSe on its merits for now,

 

While despite boasting great hardware support, they deliberately break multimedia programs, it's not the fastest at booting (fedora, mandy, debian, gentoo, to name a few boot far quicker than suse), and the default gnome desktop is far from snappy.........same goes for their buggy/broken version of openoffice.

 

IMHO, there should be a mandatory x-kill button on every opensuse desktop, because you need it alot. I'm sorry, but the last time I sat with a suse 10.1 install on my PC, the last thing that passed my mind was "robust".

 

My 2.5 pence

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While despite boasting great hardware support, they deliberately break multimedia programs, it's not the fastest at booting (fedora, mandy, debian, gentoo, to name a few boot far quicker than suse), and the default gnome desktop is far from snappy.........same goes for their buggy/broken version of openoffice.

 

IMHO, there should be a mandatory x-kill button on every opensuse desktop, because you need it alot. I'm sorry, but the last time I sat with a suse 10.1 install on my PC, the last thing that passed my mind was "robust".

I didn't find Suse so buggy, though I had a older official non-free version, still have it somewhere... but that one aspect summed it up for me. Boot times I can live with, to some extent it goes with the great HW support which actually is very good I didn't know if the xine is crippled in Opensuse or not but if it is this is what I really mean about them distancing themselves from Novell.

 

Let's just judge OpenSuSe on its merits for now, not on emotional/ethical/... arguments.

I see your point but honestly I can't seperate the two... (if we group those together as philosophy) ...

The actual act of deliberately hacking Xine to prevent it using libdvdcss is an over riding factor ... its bad in a way I can't even begin to describe ... trying to keep to non OWT examples... but it would be like someone buying art for the sole purpose of using it to burn, its just wrong... or going to a party with the sole aim of drinking everone elses booze and then taking the unopened bottles home ... and then justifying it saying you could have drunk them at the party but you decided t save them for later. OK these are all sorta lame, but what Im trying to express is this shows zero respect for the programmers for xine.

 

They are taking the IP and the code of the programmers for Xine and then deliberatly breaking it...

... its somewhat a question of respecting the aims of the GPL.... not the letter.

 

The idea of the GPL is to add/extend/build etc. not deliberatly cripple so I can't see how to seperate the philosophy from the technical merits. Disabling a component for stability or something is one thing but doing it to make descisions for the users on using Xine to play DVD's or not is IMHO quite different...

I realise you can install other media players or get the Xine source from xine.hq etc. but I think you have to judge a distro as a whole not as a pure technical thing... there are a lot of distro's available and many of them are excellent so one has to apply other criteria to make a choice... one of the reasons I like Gentoo/Debian is the social contract and clearly expressed goals... technically I find the Gentoo one tiring...compiling everything soon turns into a hooby in my experience but this should be no surprise because its clearly written into the philosophy... and if you want to spend hours compiling and learning then that is a good philosophy... Open suse doesn't seem to have a clear philosophy, it doesn't say "our philosophy is to hack the product so it doesn't work as you want it"

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Let's just judge OpenSuSe on its merits for now, not on emotional/ethical/... arguments.

I see your point but honestly I can't seperate the two... (if we group those together as philosophy) ...

The actual act of deliberately hacking Xine to prevent it using libdvdcss is an over riding factor ... its bad in a way I can't even begin to describe ... trying to keep to non OWT examples... but it would be like someone buying art for the sole purpose of using it to burn, its just wrong... or going to a party with the sole aim of drinking everone elses booze and then taking the unopened bottles home ... and then justifying it saying you could have drunk them at the party but you decided t save them for later. OK these are all sorta lame, but what Im trying to express is this shows zero respect for the programmers for xine.

It's a long standing issue with Suse and has nothing to do with Novell. When I tried 9.0 it didn't even play mp3 files out of the box. In fact since Novell bought them Suse become much more open even if it's still not able to play DVDs out of the box. IMHO it's a business decision and has nothing to do with respecting or not the spirit of GPL.

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Gowator: is there any distro you don't have a major complaint about? :lol2:

Debian, Gentoo, Slackware and I can't find much wrong with FC... ;) and I'm holding out for Ulteo adding to that list! and mandriva isn't so far down the list... and *buntu is well up the list (surprising though you might find that)

Mandriva's failures are largely management issues IMHO... *buntu the lack of adressing the sudo stuff in public (not the sudo stuff itself but the discouragement from actually talking about it)... but these are not show stoppers.

 

I don't use slackware or FC ... and you know why I don't use Gentoo (its just a time sucker) but that doesn't mean I think they are not fine distro's...

 

Suse last time I ordered from them did the whole marketing thing 110% ... I mean nice box set, good customer service and feedback, DVD and CD editions for 32 and 64 bit... at less than the price of a powerpack... on one arch and one medium...

The hardware support really is excellent ... but the philosophy behind

It's a long standing issue with Suse and has nothing to do with Novell. When I tried 9.0 it didn't even play mp3 files out of the box. In fact since Novell bought them Suse become much more open even if it's still not able to play DVDs out of the box. IMHO it's a business decision and has nothing to do with respecting or not the spirit of GPL.

is a show stopper for me....

Its not the lack of MP3 support out of the box ... its the deliberate crippling of Xine

 

 

a ) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices stating that you changed the files and the date of any change.

b ) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License.

 

The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it. For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable.

 

So it is a GPL issue.... strictly speaking the source should be available with precise instructions how to remove the hacks and recompile into a binary without limiting playback of DVD's... but that is the letter of the GPL... what is more disconserting to me is the spirit... because negative/limiting modifications for no reason but to prevent users choice to install libdvdcss is completely against the spirit.

 

 

 

p.s. Here is what OpenSounrce means to me....

https://mandrivausers.org/index.php?showtopic=37704

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