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aRTee

new Mandrakelinux release cycle

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There's a single kernel-source .rpm, and tens of different kernel rpms (i586, i686, up, smp, 1GB, 4GB, 64GB...you do the math). Obviously, you'll have to set the right build options to get the exact binary kernel you get from installing kernel-whatever binary package! It's a complicated situation. However, it ought to work as a source tree against which modules can be built for any of the MDK kernel RPMs. If you find a situation in which this is not the case, by all means, file a bug.

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I was in that problem myself ....

I just don't want XP, not do I wish to find out anything about it.

The first thing I do is destropy all partitions, I have never even booted it so when I get to wanting to use the Internet.. ??

 

Oh, and before you bought that laptop, you had no way at all to get onto the internet?

Sorry, but realistically, you could have bought a laptop with open source drivers for your modem, you could get a serial port modem, you could connect to adsl with an adsl modem and connect to that via ethernet, etcetc.

Why didn't you just buy a preinstalled laptop? Errex sells them in France.

If you are so disgusted with MSWin, you could do more to support the competition, no?

 

I'm sorry, but if you were in trouble, it was just because you didn't have a well though over strategy.

Sure, Mdksoft could include all closed source drivers, and all other stuff they may include (java, etc) but then, your wish may well come true and they may go bankrupt. To include that stuff is a service that _you_ frankly, as a non paying user, cannot expect, require or demand.

 

This is what Im saying about practically every aspect of their markting. Perhaps as a club member or insider it seems different but the releases for CE/OE etc. were not clear.

Well, that's not what I said; it was clear, as clear as could be, to me, with the regular press release. It was just not clear to all, since some interpreted things wrongly. and shouted their incorrect interpretation all over the various forums.

Nothing to do with being an insider (I'm not one - and at that time AdamW wasn't one either, he followed the cooker list and stuff as an interested outsider - correct me if I'm wrong Adam - but you understood it the same way as I did, which is the way Mdksoft intended, AFAICS), nor with being a clubmember, I read about it in the press release, not on the club nor in clubmember email.

 

I remember a (long) while back you were convinced it did MP3 playback ... and finally you checked and it doesn't you need plf. Lots of things with Mandrake are totally unclear including their open/closed source stance etc.

WRONG! I though they included mp3 ENcoding, which they don't; but mp3 playback is included in main, see here:

ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/mand...123-0.59r-23mdk

and there are more packages that indicate mp3 playback. It's just lame that is in plf-free.

 

Regarding their open/closed source stance, you're one of the few that's in the unclear about it, even though adamw and I have indicated the very easy to follow stance - from a different perspective though.

adamw makes the point that for license issues and various other reasons, Mdksoft doesn't include any non-free stuff.

I put it differently - imho they just leave out the non-Free stuff so that they deliver some extra comfort to add to the paying members and customers.

Both adamw and I agree that Mdksoft don't include any non-Free stuff in the download edition so that it's really clean and Free in the GNU sense.

adamw, please correct me if I'm wrong - I don't want to put words in your mouth you didn't say, but from your reactions this is what I 'read' as being your point of view.

 

In any case, it's up to Mandrakesoft to decide what they include and what they don't include; and they have made a fully free download edition from day one, which they have also stated and which they stand by.

If you don't like it, tough luck.

 

There is very little unclear about it.

 

So please, go back to your (rightful) gripes about imperfect customer service and bad marketing (or lack of marketing) - plenty of sucky things to complain about that everyone can only agree with.

 

BTW you may say you think Linus is correct in his feelings about subscriptions not being a successful business model - for the time being it works wonders for MS, RH and Mdksoft. (Yes, MS is using a subscription model - it's called licensing 6 if I'm not mistaken..)

In time, I think the proper model is a preloaded one. This will come, but today is too early, Linux must be more known and used.

 

Partially but I am also sticking to what I 'felt' when I started using Mandrake not what I had to dredge for. Mandrake need to clean up their image and what I felt is probably the same as others who drift into mandrake for a short while (between a botched install and months) and then move-on without ever finding the good technical stuff behind it.

Yeah, but sometimes I feel you're just a critic who holds a grudge. You got away from Mdksoft before 10.0. Things change.

Mdklinux is for birds of all feathers, and the ones that Linux needs now are those who don't care about the technical details as long as it works.

 

It will always be the case that people move from mdklinux to some other flavour, like gentoo, debian, ubuntu, etc. And that's just fine. As long as enough people start with linux (suse, mdk, ubuntu and then some) and leave mswin behind.

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artee: yep, that's right, I've been with MDK a couple of months now. I heard about CE / OE through the Cooker list and the press releases. To be honest, I mostly agree with Gowator on the _announcement_ - it was badly botched, with not enough information available, and everyone was confused for a long time. What I think is good is the actual _arrangement_, the publicity around it wasn't great at first.

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*disclaimer*

The short reply of adamw related to words I put in his mouth does not imply that all other words I put in his mouth are now confirmed to be true! Use at own risk, we are not liable for any damages, etcetc...

:P

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...Mandrakesoft A.G. and aRTee World Domination Enterprises Inc. are not responsible for any feline distress resulting from the aforementioned words in mouth situation...

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To include that stuff is a service that _you_ frankly, as a non paying user, cannot expect, require or demand.

Frankly I was a paying customer.

I was pissed off because as a paying customer their response to me having faulty media was join Mandrake Club and then pay at Mandrake Expert.

Even though this was just some incompetent person sending a standard response it is indicative of their business attitude.

The aim is move people into club/expert.

 

Oh, and before you bought that laptop, you had no way at all to get onto the internet?

Sure but unfortunately Mandrake don't say when they are taking something out of Powerpack and making it club only! I guess you might research it but as a paying customer I didn't expect them to remove drivers from previous versions ... also sinve I had no phone at home everything had to be done at work and stuck on floppy back then.

 

If I hadn't already paid I might have felt different but being asked to pay again to join the club to be told ... oh we don't do winmodem drivers unless you upgrade to Silver is hardly conducive to feeling like they are not acting like M$

 

Yeah, but sometimes I feel you're just a critic who holds a grudge.

Absolutely Mandrake stole from me and I will not stop criticising them until they apologise. I have yet to receive a answer on the non functional media I got in 9.2 Powerpack except to join the club and/or submit the problem to Expert . As far as I am concerned they stole that money.

 

If it was a large amount i would chase it legally but its just 80 Euro ... or 800FFr ??

 

I started out trusting them and they earned my distrust.

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you have my deepest sympathies, gowator. :D

 

sure, things like these are frustrating but mandrake is a business and if you would run a business that has financial problems, wouldn't you try to sell the most expensive thing to the customer?

 

i know, on a long term, this is a rather bad policy but for mandrake, it worked somehow.

 

and i am a lucky one (or a very poor person. decide yourself). i never payed a dime to mandrake or any other operating system producer. :P

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My very first introduction to linux was the purchase of Mandrake9.2 powerpack - rather than a download - because it supposedly came with something like 60 days mandrake expert support (or was it 30?) Anyway, as I'd never even used linux before, I thought this was the sensible option. Well I had a few problems at the start - and made my posting to Mandrake expert - and followed this up by various emails - *nobody* ever even made a reply, of any sort. However, I received plenty of emails to remind me that my 30/60 days of support were quickly disappearing. I nearly did join club - but after being conned about receiving support, they didn't get the dosh.

 

If it were not for MUB i'd would say categorically that I'd have dumped Mandrake and would now be using windaz.

 

If Mandrake sells a package, it needs to ensure it meets its obligations to the paying customer.

 

Other than that, I can honestly say that I'm glad I made the switch from M$ to linux.

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Gowator,

 

I see you point. Some things I'd still like to remark:

this happened to you, when?

You mind lots about 80 being 'lost' to Mdk - where it still went into development of Linux/FLOSS, yet you don't have second thoughts about buying a laptop with WinXP preloaded, and just tossing the system. This has me wondering the most - WinXP on the cheapest preloaded systems cost around 45$ to the vendor, he'll have his margin. And if you're not Michael Dell, that 45$ is likely closer to 60 or 80... similar to the money you lost on Mdksoft - however, in the latter case, at least the money went to a good cause. In the former and _your_ case, your money went to supporting and accepting an illegal monopoly maintained by the evilest company in IT: MS.

 

That being said, yes, it sucks if one gets conned into spending money and doesn't feel to get any value for it.

 

However, isn't it time to bury the axe?

 

On a side note, I've never trusted any marketing as far as I could throw it, I just see paying for Linux/mdk (or whatever) as giving a tip to a waiter - only to be done if one is satisfied.

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Gowator,

 

I see you point. Some things I'd still like to remark:

this happened to you, when?

About 3.5 years ago now but I hold personal grudges a long time.. Ill explain a bit more.

 

You mind lots about 80 being 'lost'  to Mdk - where it still went into development of Linux/FLOSS, yet you don't have second thoughts about buying a laptop with WinXP preloaded, and just tossing the system. This has me wondering the most - WinXP on the cheapest preloaded systems cost around 45$ to the vendor, he'll have his margin. And if you're not Michael Dell, that 45$ is likely closer to 60 or 80... similar to the money you lost on Mdksoft - however, in the latter case, at least the money went to a good cause. In the former and _your_ case, your money went to supporting and accepting an illegal monopoly maintained by the evilest company in IT: MS.

Well, I didn't see it as being lost Mdk but I started to wonder. When I bought the 9.2 Powerpack I was with my GF and she asked why I was paying when I could download... and I answered all I believed!

When I bought the laptop (which is an ultracheap Fujistsu) it was in the post Xmas sales and basically the cheapest with a DVD reader and CDRW by a good margin, much bigger than €80 ... I wasn't that happy but I needed something.. I even bought it from a UK Hifi Chain (Dixons.. simply cos it was such a good deal... It felt wrong but I needed a laptop at the time)

 

That being said, yes, it sucks if one gets conned into spending money and doesn't feel to get any value for it.

I prefer being burgled and everything stolen than someone taking a cent from under my nose. I take this to irrational lengths as anyone who has ever tried to mug me with a knife knows. (noone has ever tried with a gun I hope I can modferate my response)... I just hate it when people take something and hold you incompetant to do anything... its a matter of principle for me not the cost and it wouldn't matter if it was 80c or 800,000€.

 

My very first introduction to linux was the purchase of Mandrake9.2 powerpack - rather than a download - because it supposedly came with something like 60 days mandrake expert support (or was it 30?) Anyway, as I'd never even used linux before, I thought this was the sensible option. Well I had a few problems at the start - and made my posting to Mandrake expert - and followed this up by various emails - *nobody* ever even made a reply, of any sort. However, I received plenty of emails to remind me that my 30/60 days of support were quickly disappearing. I nearly did join club - but after being conned about receiving support, they didn't get the dosh.

 

If it were not for MUB i'd would say categorically that I'd have dumped Mandrake and would now be using windaz.

 

If Mandrake sells a package, it needs to ensure it meets its obligations to the paying customer.

 

Other than that, I can honestly say that I'm glad I made the switch from M$ to linux.

See I agree 100% with every last thing he said. Mandrake seem quite happy to let obligations slip and to leave misleading advertising etc.

Rather as you do I see preinstalled systems as being the future but when these people get home from the supermarket with their new PC (yep Carrefour do Mandrake pre-loaded PC's) and it doesn't do what it says on the box they will either take it back or get someone round to illegally put Windows on.

 

However, isn't it time to bury the axe?

Yep when they answer my outstanding email in a way that signifies they are ready to take back the 9.2 media and admit they are unusable that doesn't involve me joining Mandrake Club.

The ball is in their court and they continue to fsck up.... Im not even interested in a refund or anything just an admission they distrubuted crap media.

Im still waiting 3 years later... can i honestly tell soemone to do business with a company like that?

 

I still get rid of every last HP I come across (so far its several hundred PC's and printers) at work due to them doing a similar thing and this must be 10 years ago now. I will never ever buy a HP product professionally or for home use because they fsck'd me and lied to me. All I want is an admission of liability from them but they refuse and prefer straight lies! Same goes for Archos .... I would rather throw away my MM player than pay them for 'fitting a battery' because they wanna charge me an extra €30 or so fitting charges... or force me to buy the newer one.

 

Its a matter of principle.

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artee: yep, that's right, I've been with MDK a couple of months now. I heard about CE / OE through the Cooker list and the press releases. To be honest, I mostly agree with Gowator on the _announcement_ - it was badly botched, with not enough information available, and everyone was confused for a long time. What I think is good is the actual _arrangement_, the publicity around it wasn't great at first.

Wasn't it the same with the release cycle? Only a confusing press release for days.

Isn't it the same with this name changing? No words yet. They maybe already made the decision, but didn't tell anything about it. I think they should have put the poll on their official website. Or if they made the decision then they should have put another press release.

It seems they don't learn from their mistakes.

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Gowator, ok, I hear you.

That clarifies lots - I guess to them (and likely loads of others) you're just the most difficult customer to deal with.

The point is, they'll never admit they're wrong, because if so, under law, they have to do something about it - and at this point they can't know if you will really just accept an apology and let things be.

So, tough luck on both sides, this will never be resolved.

 

Dexter, the point with the release cycle was that many were confused about Mdk products - I didn't care, and the execution was not bad at all, imho - 10.0 and 10.1 had CE release that were as good (or as bad) as any previous finals, and in most respects the OE releases were better.

 

The name change is not a public thing. Just as the acquisition of Conectiva wasn't a public thing. They don't need to ask the community anything.

Has RH ever asked what the name for FC should be?

Did Canonical ask anyone what to call Ubuntu?

 

They owe discussion with the share holders, not the community. This is a company.

 

For me, a rose by any other name is still a rose.

Won't get rid of the thorns either.

 

BTW I can't get a new name for my website ending in .free.fr so I'll likely stop with my site when the name Mandrake gets out of use...

Edited by aRTee

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Gowator, ok, I hear you.

That clarifies lots - I guess to them (and likely loads of others) you're just the most difficult customer to deal with.

Well I'm certainly stubborn and stand by my values.

It was their treatment of me made me angry not the amount.

Basically after looking for ANY email address for complaint's or anything apart from corporate sales I ended up emailing sales... who else can you contact the other addresses are 'tell us how great Mandrake is... we won't reply but...'

This is just wrong: A company selling over the internet should IMHO also respond to complaints over the internet.

When I ordered Suse over the internet I got a whole tracking number and everything. I didn't actually use it because suse gave me the feeling of being in safe hands! (This is the who professionalism thing)

 

(I just got back from FNAC and they have 10.1 :D but only CD versions :o )

 

In contrast mandrake have had many customers waiting over 6 months for delivery and offer no contact email what soever. They also charged a whole load of US customers $6000 per copy instead of $60... which they blamed on their bank... this could be true but it would have been nice for them to answer emails on this. When you have $6k of someones money you at least owe them an apology not a sorry we do not accept emails....

Hence I will never buy a mandrake product over the internet because they have not only a poor track record (I could live with that) but ignore requests for information!

 

Yep Im awkward but then Im the customer.

 

 

The point is, they'll never admit they're wrong, because if so, under law, they have to do something about it - and at this point they can't know if you will really just accept an apology and let things be.

So, tough luck on both sides, this will never be resolved.

Yep just don't expect me to back down: they are the ones who sent to me rude emails saying to join mandrake club (I was already a member but they couldn't be bothered checking and my question went unanswered on Mandrake expert) I find that rude!

 

Alitalia lost my baggage 3 years ago with probably €4000+ worth of clothes

i.e. about €220 in total if I admitted I lost my luggage. I told them that no they lost my luggage and I would not be admitting liability for their mistakes.

One of these days I will have a chance to cost Alitalia a lot of money I hope and when I do I will take it but I am not going to admit liability for them loosing my baggage for a lousy €220) They wouldn't even refund the excess baggage they charged!

 

SO yes Im difficult ! Alitalia are theives and I tell everyone I meet.

I refuse to travel with them I will take every opportunity to see them go broke

HP stiffed me ... same goes for them... I have managed to cost them a few hundred K€ so far :D but I haven't stopped yet.

If I see any chance anywhere to deny them business i take it, even if it costs me money I don't care.

 

Dexter, the point with the release cycle was that many were confused about Mdk products - I didn't care, and the execution was not bad at all, imho - 10.0 and 10.1 had CE release that were as good (or as bad) as any previous finals, and in most respects the OE releases were better.

 

The name change is not a public thing. Just as the acquisition of Conectiva wasn't a public thing. They don't need to ask the community anything.

Has RH ever asked what the name for FC should be?

Did Canonical ask anyone what to call Ubuntu?

 

They owe discussion with the share holders, not the community. This is a company.

 

For me, a rose by any other name is still a rose.

Won't get rid of the thorns either.

 

BTW I can't get a new name for my website ending in .free.fr so I'll likely stop with my site when the name Mandrake gets out of use...

Yep and if they want to loose old customers they can just keep going as they are!

 

This is a signal to me as to what sort of company they are.

Today I had Sushi at my favorite sushi resto. Why is it my favorite, because when I forgot my wallet they didn't think twice to saying don't worry pay next time. I was with a friend who offered to pay and they just said no need ... he can pay next time we trust him.

 

I might be naieve but I find trusting people can be trusted. The cashier who said this is just the assistant mangeress, not an owner etc. so her company obviously feel they can trust her... if you pay before 12:30 they take 3€ off your bill... If its 12:32 and you have been queing you don't need to instist... or argue they just do it. Last week they forgot (its manual on the till not automatic) so I go in today and she is all apologetic (she wasn't even on the till shge just so me come in with my GF and apologise she forgot to reduce the 3€

 

I might be stupid but I don't add up my bill..I trust them.

I was aware they hadn't reduced last week but not certain but I thought hell its 3€ and she's really busy.

 

Now imagine if I had objected and it was 12:30:02 on my receipt and my watch says 12:29:40 .. I pay and shut up but I don't go back unless by chance and its no longer my favorite place. However its entirely the opposite....

 

It may be that Mandrake went from this sort of company to the corporate style when it put short term profitability above customer satisfacftion.

However all the shareholders in the world won't help them if noone is buying the product!

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BTW I can't get a new name for my website ending in .free.fr so I'll likely stop with my site when the name Mandrake gets out of use...

We had better think about asking anon to host your docs then...

no point leaving that resouse to go to waste!

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Gowator, ok, I hear you.

That clarifies lots - I guess to them (and likely loads of others) you're just the most difficult customer to deal with.

The point is, they'll never admit they're wrong, because if so, under law, they have to do something about it - and at this point they can't know if you will really just accept an apology and let things be.

So, tough luck on both sides, this will never be resolved.

 

Dexter, the point with the release cycle was that many were confused about Mdk products - I didn't care, and the execution was not bad at all, imho - 10.0 and 10.1 had CE release that were as good (or as bad) as any previous finals, and in most respects the OE releases were better.

Well I don't have anything against Mandrakelinux as distro, and I'm not arguing against MandrakeSoft technical decisions. I'm arguing with lack of conversation between them and the community. They don't seem to care about them/us. I think it's a big a disadvantage in a Linux distro manufacturer which is living from its community.
The name change is not a public thing.
I'm not a business expert so... why?
Just as the acquisition of Conectiva wasn't a public thing. They don't need to ask the community anything.

Has RH ever asked what the name for FC should be?

Did Canonical ask anyone what to call Ubuntu?

So what? Mandrake was the first or one of the first to ask which packages to put in the distro from users. They could be the first in that too. I can accept that the decision is their but at least they could ask what we like.
They owe discussion with the share holders, not the community. This is a company.
Do you think share holders will like Mandriva?
For me, a rose by any other name is still a rose.

Won't get rid of the thorns either.

 

BTW I can't get a new name for my website ending in .free.fr so I'll likely stop with my site when the name Mandrake gets out of use...

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