mandrake and devices

[fahd]

Really I'm astonished what is Mandrakesoft policy. All the versions (including BETA1, BETA2, ..etc.) are weak in spite that I was a Mandrake fan. It was a difficult moment for me to decide what is my policy. What do I want from linux distros? A dependable, flexible, useful and more and more device drivers supporting. People here in Hungary, I mean linux fans are not kidding when they say: Linux distros are not serious and really have not any idea how to make linux the no. one desktop os. The same people are disposed to invest their money in good enough linux package. But it seems the linux fans all over the world should wait for the no. one distro who provides us with a serious technical support, a stable installation package, no matter what intel colony motherboard and chip sets your computer include, it just should be i386, or other micro proccessor based linux. May Mandrake be the no. ONE LINUX DISTRO? I doubt it ( at least this moment).

 

Thank you.

[mtweidmann]

I am not entirely sure what your arguement is, but I get the feeling I don't agree with you. While I agree that device support in Linux is not quite as good as in Windows, but I woudn't say it is that bad. For instance everything in my desktop and laptop works under Linux. And except for a couple of things in the laptop I only needed the drivers that came with the install CDs. While for Windows if I relied on the drivers that came with it the system would be near unusable. Also surely it is the manufacture's duty to provide drivers?

 

On support, exactly how much support does MS offer? Er... not very much, must support contracts are with the PC manufacture not with MS. There are companies that offer support, but normally only targetted at companies.

 

Finally how is the situation ever going to get better if people don't use Linux or take it seriously.

 

Foot Note:

I wouldn't say there is a best Linux distro. Surely it depends on what your going to use it for?

[tyme]

Please remember that mandrakeusers.org is not in any way affiliated w/Manadrake the company. We are a user run board. I'm moving this to Everything Linux, as it doesn't pertain just to software.

[Ixthusdan]

Computers are application dependent. By that I mean that the concept of one os to bind them---erm---I mean to run them is wrong. The best os is the one that applies to the circumstance. Long live variety and Linux!

[bvc]

fahd, I think you're asleep and dreaming....wake up! By the time a linux can win the desktop war....there won't be a war anymore. ;)

[crock]

How can you expect dedicated technical support for something that is absolutely FREE?

 

Your not paying for tech support, so why should you get it?

 

Its boards like this one that bring people together under a common interest, and provide our own style of support. Granted it may take a little longer than telephone support, but at least you'll get an answer...and a good one too...not some crappy level 1 tech support at a call center somewhere.

 

For what you expect, Linux would have to almost become Microsoft-esque.

[aRTee]

I think linux has come a very long way in the last 3 years.

 

A longer way than any other operating system ever has in such a short period of time.

 

Even today, linux is not ready for the desktop simply because it is not on the desktops of the machines in the shops.

 

The preinstalled preconfigged linux desktop machine will not have any support problem; Mandrake would do quite well, with urpmi installation of extra software is a snap, an easier way to add apps would be if the machine reads your mind and autoinstalls, runs the program and does your job for you, while you go out to have a drink.

 

Win3.11 was never ready for the desktop, win95 wasn't ready, win98 wasn't really ready, win98se maybe was getting ready, with loads of retries-reboots-reinstalls, winME was a pile of crap, winNT seemed ready but hardware support was not so good, same for win2k, there it was lacking in hardware and games support (no-one played games on NT). Mind you, for MSwindows it finally came together in WinXP, and they'd been on preinstalled preconfigged machines for what, a decade?

 

So honestly, I see a bright future for linux as a mainstream system, but not in the next 2 years; around 2008-2010 linux may be at 40% penetration of households and regular home users.

Currently, we are still on the uphill slope. Pushing to the first 10% is hard. After that, things will get easier, and I will stop to care too much (2005, 2006). Linux will be on 4 to 5% of all desktops by the end of this year.

And we will help put it there. :P

[fahd]

There is a lot to do for linux distros. Not only making linux installation easier and smart but really making it a good stuff for all the people all over the world. I wish they will aim to put it in the proper place. It is not disputed that linux is the best os the folk ever seen, but we should provide the distros with a good remarks. Never make the same mistake as microsoft did with its products. IBM os/2 is more best than microsoft os, but microsoft has removed it from the market using its gaint financial background. They can not reach the same goal with linux, since linux has not a fixed country or even firm. I am very optimist and feel that the the day will come soon to see linux on the hill (may be another free source code os will be on the horizon after a few years).

 

Fahd

[jlc]

Let's not forget not to many people load windows on there computers at home either. The only people that do are like me, the others call me or you to do it for them. So while I agree that just not anyone can install Linux, in the same token, just not anyone can install windows either.

 

You give some one a pre-installed Linux box and they will do just as good as a pre-installed windows box.

 

To sum it all up, some people just cant install anything, for those, they have us.

 

:lol:

[Gowator]

For once I seem to agree with everyone!!!!

I must be ill....

aRTee is right about market saturation, 10% and we will be significant. HW manufactuerers won't be able to ignore us....

 

However, Id also say other OS's are already here. They are for different tates etc. but still make up that critical non-microsft and UNIX based alternative.

 

OS-X is great for those who don't like learning the details and represents a real choice if in limited hardware. But it still helps linux becuase a driver for a mac is so similar to a driver for linux its just a recompile.

 

BSD represents the other side. My exprience is its for people who like life hard.... although to be fair I didn't persist long. Again the more people using it the better for linux.

 

and countless others like sykos etc... and the new BEOS.

 

 

Altogether we need a significant (not majority) market share and then critical mass will take over.

 

On the linux desktop its a uphill battle and one frought with dangers.

In order to get that critical market penetration you NEED to make something interesting to the non-geek majority.

 

Oh, you just urpmi this then recompile the kernel without PCMCIA support and dah dah dah.... its NEVER going to happen for the majority.

 

So distro's are going to divide up....

There will be the technical slackware type which will probably remain FREE and FREE (gratuite et libre) or BEER AND SPEECH ... and at the other end the commercial slick ones.

 

The commerical ones with support will be dumbed down.

They have to be becuase you can't support the sorta person who can't figure why the printing is funny on a4 paper when the page size is letter while they are playing about with their system and letting urpmi install binaries and libraries that and incompatible. These are the people cybrjackle points out can't even install windows becuase they call me or you.....

 

Preconfigured machines will help but you still need to be able to go out, install a webcam (by plugging it in), start gnomemeeting and video conference....

and this just isn't happeneing.....

So it will be like the Mac, you can buy this hardware and it will work but if you buy anything else it won't. This will only change with market share when the manufactuerers start putting linux drivers and utilities in the BOX.

Its already a reality on servers..:D.. any high end SCSI card or whatever (especially Adaptec) is supported because these are generally server devices and linux already has the required weight/market share in the server market.

 

 

However aRTee worries that the closed source nature of some of these may stop driver development for linux in general. I don't think it will becuase once you make the driver (and package it nicely for Lindows) its trivial to get a bigger market share and release the source. Just like its trivial to recompile the mac driver.

 

aRTee latest figures seem to show 4-5% penetration. already :D previous figures were made on copies sold which isn't applicible if you have 10 PC's and use linux.

 

I even agree with bvc.... he's right that by the time linux gets there there won't be a war....

Its more likely to be like a slow drawn-out death of MS....

 

Once linux hits 20%+ the war is OVER.

 

Listen to what aRTee said about how fast linux hgas evolved.

I remember running win95 and slackware 2.sometrhing at the same time. After I finally installed slackware it became another OS/2 - nice OS, no applications.

Look at Linux now.... were actually discussing the last remaining hurdles....

Back in 95 slackware install stopped at .... and if you want a graphical system like XFree86 .....

 

Compare the two today.... linux has come from nowhere and now is leading MS...

I found out theirs actually a AMD64bit beta for Windows.... but its already a reality on Linux...

 

Indeed MS is now entering into UNIX territorory.... longhorn will i expect be a disaster, too little too late. Up to now linux has been battling on the Lotus123 war, not the streaming video or traditional unix market war,

 

I notice winNT embedded about quite a lot....

Its used on the RER (suburban trains) ticketing- I often have wait while it reboots....

then as Im walking down the escalator the big plasma advertising screens often advertise press-any-key to rebbot, windows has a fatal FUBAR....

 

Once, i saw M6 TV in norway broadcasting the same message....and this message screams Windows is crap, don't use it for anything mission critical...

 

My company has little TV's all over, playing annoying music and showing our share price or wonderful achievements...

we even got some big plasma ones downstairs....

Quite often, probably weekly these braodcast the same fatal exception error message....

 

Now, has anyone ever seen UNIX do that....

No, not becuase its not used by broadcasters or banks or whatever, becuase it doesn't break without you doing something.

This is the area MS is now entering ....

Do i see a long battle???

[arthur]

I don't know ANYBODY who knew how to install windows. The very few that do, it was me who taught them. So, I think next time I'll install Linux - they won't be able to take it out anyway! They'll be forced to use Linux! Mwahahahaha!

 

Just make sure they can still use OpenOffice and the internet, they'll be stuck with Linux forever. Maybe their children will become Linux gurus...

 

Now am I evil or what?

[mtweidmann]

I think Arthur makes a good point, to the vast majority of people the actual software is immaterial. As long as there is a word processor, email client, and web browser most users would be happy. KDE/Gnome are no harder to use than Windows IMHO, just different (and not that different any more). It seems to be simple fear of anything new that holds them back.

 

As an example, my housemate is not is not exactly a computer nut but does know her way around one. She always refused point blank to try out Linux, until one day when her computer failed it was use my Linux box or nothing. Other than having to ask the name of the apps she wanted, much to her surprise she had no problems.