SCO: the story continues

[Michel]

http://www.sco.com/scosource/letter_to_lin..._customers.html

 

I'm getting to have enough of thgis...I understand that companieqs have to earn money...nor probs with that...I'm a comp sc. student myself..so if I succeed I'll have to earn money myself, but

bringing linux down, wich already exists for tens of years..goes something to far. I know that it is a danger for all other platforms, but this is going far.

[VeeDubb]

Okay, that REALY pisses me off. It's bad enough that they are doing this at all, especial considering how ludicrous it is, But to start sending out letters to comercial linux users trying to suggest that linux is designed by a bunch of criminals and is less secure than other systems is just dirty. Th people at the top who will get these letters are idiots that may actualy believe this crap. I want somebody to find the head of SCO and kick him in the nuts.

[liquidzoo]

Somehow...and I'm not sure why...it doesn't surprise me that this is all happening here in Utah.

[tyme]

hmm...anyone else wondering if MS is somehow behind all this crap? Or is that just my evil anti-M$ conpiracy theory side coming out?

 

and yes, head of SCO, knee in his nuts, 10 foot pull up his arse, sounds good. but seriously, it's obvious their grasping for something to hold on to, otherwise they would have done this a long time ago.

 

here's what I don't understand, so someone help me here. SCO worked on linux, right? Didn't they have their own distro? and if they released the source for that distro under the GPL (like it's required), haven't then they released what was previously this intellectual property their screaming about under the GPL, thereby making all this crap null and void? I could be wrong here, because I don't know the legality or what SCO's involvement in linux projects was....

[zero0w]

Well, no reasonable people would be buying Linux products from a company who's sueing others for using Linux anyway, and perhaps the boycott really made some impact on SCO Linux product sales.

 

Anyhow, I think it is a desperate attempt to lure Microsoft to buy SCO, so that Microsoft can use more FUD to stop Linux, but not competing on merits. With kernel 2.6 coming, Linux has more staying power and more chances to prove itself than ever.

 

However, with Apple backing project such as GNU Darwin and KHTML (and recently Apple donated some computers for Perl 6 development), no one will be able to stop the spread of open source any more.

[Gowator]

I must admit I thought this was much of a storm in a teacup but tyme and zero0w have got me worried now.

 

Its difficult to think MS aren't somehow involved. Perhaps they have finally decided to make it a real OS and theyre copying the apple route of using a preexisting OS as a base. Like using SCO instead of BSD.

 

If the M$ $ollars are backing this then its probably more serious than just SCO trying to grab some cheap bucks. Maybe they have backed it but haven't any intention of doing anything but wrecking Linux. Now IBM and Oracle are firm supporters and committed its probably less serious than say two years ago but still worrying.

 

I'd think the most urgent thing for the linux community to find out is if M$ are involved or not. Whoever the sources of the Halloween documents are if your reading this and know something please let that nice Mr. Raymond in on it.

 

As is detailed in the Halloweeen Docs M$ decided throwing FUD at linux was a lost cause because it made them more unpopular. Perhaps this is a way to sidestep all that and throw some sand in the gas tank whilst making it look like someone else is doing it Lets face it they can hardly be squeeky clean over DOS and CP/M so better to get someone else to do it.

 

I used to be mildly anti M$, basically when you look at it technically you have to laugh but their subversive tactics have got worse over the years.

 

Other than FUD I don't know what this would achieve. Sueing the distro makers is that possible? Like if I was a publisher and a writer submitted a book which had some copyright violation hidden in page 256 of 1024 and it was really subtle like someone says <<insert an obscure line here from your favorite 20 year old book>> then would you be liable. Its the same sort of thing as the code becuase there are only so many ways you can say something. (Ill bet that has been printed somewhere).

 

Sue the devlopers? Like who, everyone involved in writing ANY part of Linux or just the kernel? What do they realistically hope to achive themselves, is there anything. The reason I ask is if they are paying lawyers fees on a lost cuase then its obviously for hidden motives. If they could realstically hope to get some decent amount out of it then maybe its less sinister.

Is anyone a lawyer ... (go on admit it, you'll probably be banned from the group or something but go on anyway :wink: p.s. just joking)

[Guest JaseP]

SCO's patents do not effect Linux. Linus has repeatedly said so. M$ would be buying useless patents.

 

Now, IBM could buy SCO as an attempt to pull the rug out from under the suit. It would also bolster their attempts to make friends in the Linux community.

 

In this suit, I'm betting squarely on IBM anyway. If IBM wins, SCO's patents will have been PROVEN to be worthless. SCO is rolling some pretty big dice here. On one hand they could win some limited consolation that might hamper Linux for about 30 seconds before someone codes around it. On the other hand, they could lose big by having IBM's position reflected in a court's judgment. Also, I don't think that RedHat and SuSE have anything to worry about if they were not joined into the suit by SCO as of now. By starting the suit in state court and allowing it to be removed to Federal, they also submit themselves to the Federal Rules of Civil Proceedure, which have mandatory joinder rules. I have a sinking suspiscion that they cannot now implede any additional defendants if they have not doen so at this point. With all of this, I have a feeling there will be an 11th hour settlement.

[Ixthusdan]

By contrast, much of Linux has been built from contributions by numerous unrelated and unknown software developers, each contributing a small section of code. There is no mechanism inherent in the Linux development process to assure that intellectual property rights, confidentiality or security are protected. The Linux process does not prevent inclusion of code that has been stolen outright, or developed by improper use of proprietary methods and concepts.

 

Let me see if I can translate this freindly public service statement: A large group of developers, so large that no one who tried could control or contain them, has written an os that is kicking everybody in the ________(fill in your favorite term). Since these guys haven't been paid, and they are not secretive about what they are doing, they had to have ripped off somebody else, because only secrete paid professionals really know how to program.

 

In a word, this is classic desperation. When all else fails, go down screaming so loud that no one notices how poorly you managed your busines. The concept of intellectual property is so vague here that I could be guilty of violating it just by thinking about what I would like a program to do! :roll: If it is legally too vague, it cannot express any binding contract or law.

 

The reason they are being vague is because they are whining; nothing more. In the US, filing a lawsuit does not mean there are grounds. Anybody can sue anybody anytime. This case is groundless and pointless.

[Cannonfodder]

More like "Don't invent a nuclear bomb because there is no way to prevent someone from using it"??? I think my anology is skewed though :roll:

[zero0w]

Now the story goes on, and I suppose we will have to go to Court to settle this one:

 

SCO CEO Says No Version of Linux Passes Legal Muster

http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=3626

 

Note: As some of the posters pointed out in the comment, this could just be a pre-meditated speech to manipulate SCO's stock prices so that the shareholders can rip-off the new buyers ASAP .... :shock:

[Guest christof]

@ tyme: you're right SCO had their own distro, but they were called Caldera then..

But I am not sure whether this actually helps ;)

[tyme]

@ tyme: you're  right SCO had their own distro, but they were called Caldera then..

But I am not sure whether this actually helps ;)

 

I know, it was the first distro i got working on my system...that was before i found Mandrake :). Caldera bought out SCO and then took on the name-atleast that's my understanding.

[tyme]

In the US, filing a lawsuit does not mean there are grounds. Anybody can sue anybody anytime. This case is groundless and pointless.

 

That's been proven quite a few times. The McDonalds coffee case, the guy who sued fast food restaurants because they knowingly fed him food that contributed to his obescity, and sometime recently some vegans sued McDonalds because there was meat _seasoning_ in the vegetable oil used to cook the french fries. I believe the reward in that last case was something like 10 million.....give or take a 0....

[aru]

@ tyme: you're  right SCO had their own distro, but they were called Caldera then..

They *had* a distro when caldera, but the *still have* a linux distro as SCO, it's named UnitedLinux

 

See SUSE's press-note about the issue (published a week ago), they are as astonished as most of us :shock:

SuSE responds to latest SCO actions

[Ric]

tyme

here's what I don't understand, so someone help me here. SCO worked on linux, right? Didn't they have their own distro? and if they released the source for that distro under the GPL (like it's required), haven't then they released what was previously this intellectual property their screaming about under the GPL, thereby making all this crap null and void? I could be wrong here, because I don't know the legality or what SCO's involvement in linux projects was....

 

this is a realy long post ,the licence from caldra openlinux (mods delete it if you like) caldra (sco) are quite specific there stuff is theres gpl'd stuff is.. well gpl'd case closed goodnight

 

 

*End-User License Agreement

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with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of a

storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under the

scope of this License.

3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under

Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1

and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:

a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source

code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above

on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,

B) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to

give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically

performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the

corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1

and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,

c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to

distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is allowed only

for noncommercial distribution and only if you received the program in

object code or executable form with such an offer, in accord with

Subsection b above.)

The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making

modifications to it. For an executable work, complete source code means

all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated

interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation

and installation of the executable. However, as a special exception, the

source code distributed need not include anything that is normally

distributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components

(compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the

executable runs, unless that component itself accompanies the executable.

If distribution of executable or object code is made by offering access to

copy from a designated place, then offering equivalent access to copy the

source code from the same place counts as distribution of the source code,

even though third parties are not compelled to copy the source along with

the object code.

4. You may not copy, modify, sublicense, or distribute the Program except

as expressly provided under this License. Any attempt otherwise to copy,

modify, sublicense or distribute the Program is void, and will

automatically terminate your rights under this License. However, parties

who have received copies, or rights, from you under this License will not

have their licenses terminated so long as such parties remain in full

compliance.

5. You are not required to accept this License, since you have not signed

it. However, nothing else grants you permission to modify or distribute

the Program or its derivative works. These actions are prohibited by law

if you do not accept this License. Therefore, by modifying or distributing

the Program (or any work based on the Program), you indicate your

acceptance of this License to do so, and all its terms and conditions for

copying, distributing or modifying the Program or works based on it.

6. Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the

Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the original

licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to these terms

and conditions. You may not impose any further restrictions on the

recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein. You are not responsible

for enforcing compliance by third parties to this License.

7. If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent

infringement or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues),

conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or

otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not

excuse you from the conditions of this License. If you cannot distribute

so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and

any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not

distribute the Program at all. For example, if a patent license would not

permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by all those who receive

copies directly or indirectly through you, then the only way you could

satisfy both it and this License would be to refrain entirely from

distribution of the Program.

If any portion of this section is held invalid or unenforceable under any

particular circumstance, the balance of the section is intended to apply

and the section as a whole is intended to apply in other circumstances.

It is not the purpose of this section to induce you to infringe any

patents or other property right claims or to contest validity of any such

claims; this section has the sole purpose of protecting the integrity of

the free software distribution system, which is implemented by public

license practices. Many people have made generous contributions to the

wide range of software distributed through that system in reliance on

consistent application of that system; it is up to the author/donor to

decide if he or she is willing to distribute software through any other

system and a licensee cannot impose that choice.

This section is intended to make thoroughly clear what is believed to be a

consequence of the rest of this License.

8. If the distribution and/or use of the Program is restricted in certain

countries either by patents or by copyrighted interfaces, the original

copyright holder who places the Program under this License may add an

explicit geographical distribution limitation excluding those countries,

so that distribution is permitted only in or among countries not thus

excluded. In such case, this License incorporates the limitation as if

written in the body of this License.

9. The Free Software Foundation may publish revised and/or new versions of

the General Public License from time to time. Such new versions will be

similar in spirit to the present version, but may differ in detail to

address new problems or concerns.

Each version is given a distinguishing version number. If the Program

specifies a version number of this License which applies to it and "any

later version", you have the option of following the terms and conditions

either of that version or of any later version published by the Free

Software Foundation. If the Program does not specify a version number of

this License, you may choose any version ever published by the Free

Software Foundation.

10. If you wish to incorporate parts of the Program into other free

programs whose distribution conditions are different, write to the author

to ask for permission. For software which is copyrighted by the Free

Software Foundation, write to the Free Software Foundation; we sometimes

make exceptions for this. Our decision will be guided by the two goals

of preserving the free status of all derivatives of our free software and

of promoting the sharing and reuse of software generally.

NO WARRANTY

11. BECAUSE THE PROGRAM IS LICENSED FREE OF CHARGE, THERE IS NO WARRANTY

FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW. EXCEPT WHEN

OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES

PROVIDE THE PROGRAM "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED

OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF

MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. THE ENTIRE RISK AS

TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE

PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING,

REPAIR OR CORRECTION.

12. IN NO EVENT UNLESS REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW OR AGREED TO IN WRITING

WILL ANY COPYRIGHT HOLDER, OR ANY OTHER PARTY WHO MAY MODIFY AND/OR

REDISTRIBUTE THE PROGRAM AS PERMITTED ABOVE, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR DAMAGES,

INCLUDING ANY GENERAL, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES

ARISING OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE PROGRAM (INCLUDING BUT NOT

LIMITED TO LOSS OF DATA OR DATA BEING RENDERED INACCURATE OR LOSSES

SUSTAINED BY YOU OR THIRD PARTIES OR A FAILURE OF THE PROGRAM TO OPERATE

WITH ANY OTHER PROGRAMS), EVEN IF SUCH HOLDER OR OTHER PARTY HAS BEEN

ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

END OF TERMS AND CONDITIONS