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Linus fires latest shot in GNOME Wars

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I might also add that I think linus does get pissed by the expectatation he should be DM agnostic... and at the same time Gnome devs obviously rub him the wrong way...

 

Whenever he makes any comment about what he prefers its met with furor from the Gnomies asking him to defend his position...

 

that has to get tiring after a while....

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I'm not saying Linus is an embarrassment... just sometimes. People also tend to forget that he was just one piece of the Linux / Open Source puzzle. The developers of Minix and the GNU GPL don't get enough attention imho.

 

Minix was simply a source of inspiration for Linux, little more. It's creator Tanenbaum (i knew his name, and how to spell it!) has actually received a fair bit of press over the years. And I'm sure i'm not alone in remembering the Tanenbaum-Torvalds debate that flared up again last year about OS kernel design. If you look Tanenbaum up, he does actually receive a fair bit of attention too, with a few accolades and many titles published under his name.

 

As for the GPL..... you can't possibly say RMS doesnt get enough attention, and through him the FSF (although the GPL was written by RMS long before the FSF was about).

 

James

:mellow:

They do get attention, obviously, but many people ONLY mention Linus when speaking about the development of Linux. Minix was a small part of the equation, but Linus himself quotes Minix as his major inspiration.

 

Your knowledge of Linux and its history is very impressive iphitus, but not everyone knows as much (or thinks as much) about these things. All I am saying is, that while Linus played a pivotal role in the creation of Linux, he was certainly helped along by other parties.

 

What do they think about GNOME? Well hell, I dunno - but when Linus opens his mouth everyone listens.

 

Of course all the members of a football team get 'attention' but some players get more than others, right?

 

That's all *sigh*

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I might also add that I think linus does get pissed by the expectatation he should be DM agnostic... and at the same time Gnome devs obviously rub him the wrong way...

 

Whenever he makes any comment about what he prefers its met with furor from the Gnomies asking him to defend his position...

 

that has to get tiring after a while....

 

 

Well, then he shouldn't start off calling them nazis, that's very offensive IMHO. That helped him very little in his case.

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I might also add that I think linus does get pissed by the expectatation he should be DM agnostic... and at the same time Gnome devs obviously rub him the wrong way...

 

Whenever he makes any comment about what he prefers its met with furor from the Gnomies asking him to defend his position...

 

that has to get tiring after a while....

 

 

Well, then he shouldn't start off calling them nazis, that's very offensive IMHO. That helped him very little in his case.

I doubt that was his opening line .....

 

The problem with Gnome IMHO is that its like talking to a brick wall.... you either love the philosphy or don't... any on the whole anyone who doesn't go along is stonewalled by BUT its the HID rules or but the icon will not be in line with policy... there seems little room for pragmatism...

 

I don't wanna use the obvious example but its like talking to a certain set of people who deny scientific fact... you can present the reasons and in the end they go back to a book and say "Its not written like that here so its not true". I am of course talking of the book of HID :wall:

Its only MHO but a lot of Gnome/KDE flames wars are pretty much down to this difference in pragmatism .... I know very few people if any who feel they are elitist by using KDE? However its reasonably common for Gnome users to start spouting HID, HID ...

 

Fine HID is a good thing... but its not a closed book IMHO... but often the arguaments for Gnome are themselves non-pragmatic arguaments... by far the best arguament I ever read was on this board by Arctic... that he spend less time faffing and customising ....

 

I think over 90% of the time Linus doesn't say much anyway... but that the Nazi comment is different culturally from place to place... The fact its become a non PC term and more so in some countires other than others is not really important... perhaps he could have used a better term but perhaps he was just tired with talking to a brick wall? Its also become a term you can take offense to... and get lots of support...

 

The very nature of the kernel development is pragmatic... that is obviously Linus' preferred way of working... I think most people who have bashed thier heads against the wall long enough talking to someone who say's if its not in the manual it can't be... just get frustrated by the lack of arguament and resort to whatever anyway...

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The problem with Gnome IMHO is that its like talking to a brick wall.... you either love the philosphy or don't... any on the whole anyone who doesn't go along is stonewalled by BUT its the HID rules or but the icon will not be in line with policy... there seems little room for pragmatism...
I'm a KDE user but I must defend the GNOME developer crew here. Sticking to the design rules is a good thing. For a lot of us the design rules of Gnome sucks but for a lot of people they are good.

If Gnome would become to the thing Linus wants it to be than the Gnome developers should start by rewriting their design rules. Maybe it's not relevant here but I have an example from somewhere else. Namely ship building. I can't remember the ships name or any other name or the exact time but in the 18th or 19th century the Swedish king give an order to build a new warship. The king was wealthy and wanted a very powerful ship which can really show his power. So he ordered the engeneer to build a bigger ship than it was originally designed. The ship always become bigger and bigger while they were building it. In the end the upper part of the ship was so big that the ship itself become dangerously unbalanced and sunk like a stone in its first trip. It was all because of the king's unlimited ambitions.

So I can understand the Gnome developers not starting everything again. And I don't understand Linus. I don't like Gnome either but I use KDE silently and have nothing against Gnome or the Gnome team. Linus should work on the Linux kernel instead of creating unecessary flamewars. Because the Linux kernel has its own set of bugs.

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For a lot of us the design rules of Gnome sucks but for a lot of people they are good.

Yep sure...

If Gnome would become to the thing Linus wants it to be than the Gnome developers should start by rewriting their design rules. Maybe it's not relevant here but I have an example from somewhere else. Namely ship building. I can't remember the ships name or any other name or the exact time but in the 18th or 19th century the Swedish king give an order to build a new warship. The king was wealthy and wanted a very powerful ship which can really show his power. So he ordered the engeneer to build a bigger ship than it was originally designed. The ship always become bigger and bigger while they were building it. In the end the upper part of the ship was so big that the ship itself become dangerously unbalanced and sunk like a stone in its first trip. It was all because of the king's unlimited ambitions.

So I can understand the Gnome developers not starting everything again. And I don't understand Linus. I don't like Gnome either but I use KDE silently and have nothing against Gnome or the Gnome team.

I think he has a right to answer questions.... he also has the same right as anyone else to submit bugs and fixes and moan if they don't get used.... he has no right to expect they are used but he has every right to moan... he's just a guy like you and me...

 

Do I expect Gnome to change? Nope ... perhaps Linus is just more optimistic ???

 

Linus should work on the Linux kernel instead of creating unecessary flamewars. Because the Linux kernel has its own set of bugs.
Yes be he has the same right to an opinion as you or I.

Also the kernel contains things specifically for Gnome/KDE... the whole HAL stuff is largely for Gnome/KDE... huge parts of the kernel are written for DE to integrate with... so when you stick in your CF card or USB key etc. the DE knows...

 

I'm betting if you dig the the ML's you'll find plently of times Gnome devs have said how the kernel should handle something...

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For a lot of us the design rules of Gnome sucks but for a lot of people they are good.

Yep sure...

 

I think he has a right to answer questions.... he also has the same right as anyone else to submit bugs and fixes and moan if they don't get used.... he has no right to expect they are used but he has every right to moan... he's just a guy like you and me...

 

Do I expect Gnome to change? Nope ... perhaps Linus is just more optimistic ???

 

Don't forget, Linus didnt blindly bumble in and throw his flamethrower around.

 

He wrote patches to make the neccesary changes that he requested, and then argued the point when they didnt get accepted --- this i believe is not unreasonable, and he has just as much right to question the rejection of his work as anyone else.

 

Linus should work on the Linux kernel instead of creating unecessary flamewars. Because the Linux kernel has its own set of bugs.
Yes be he has the same right to an opinion as you or I.

Also the kernel contains things specifically for Gnome/KDE... the whole HAL stuff is largely for Gnome/KDE... huge parts of the kernel are written for DE to integrate with... so when you stick in your CF card or USB key etc. the DE knows...

 

I'm betting if you dig the the ML's you'll find plently of times Gnome devs have said how the kernel should handle something...

 

The DE should not have any integration with the kernel, as the DE is intended to and does work on a range of kernels, *bsd, Windows, OSX's, etc.

 

That's the point of hal, a userspace process to allow generic access to hardware information across a range of architectures and kernels. It is not a kernel project, it was not started by kernel developers.

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