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yr2alex

APT for MDK?

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urpmi doesn't have dependency verification options, AFAIK, because rpm does. I'm not running Linux ATM so I can't check, but rpm has functionality to verify that a package is correctly installed and also to test whether its dependencies are.

 

rpm -i does not work the way linux_learner suggested. rpm -i attempts to install the package you specify without upgrading any previous package. Take his example; if you have gaim-0.7.9 installed and you attempt to install a gaim-1.1.4 package with rpm -i, it will attempt to install the two packages alongside each other. This probably won't work, although there's no intrinsic reason why not, most packages just aren't built to allow this. rpm -U replaces the old package with the new one, which is what you actually want to do in almost all cases.

 

urpmi almost always does the same thing as rpm -U. It can, however, do the same thing as rpm -i. This, for instance, is what it does with kernel packages, which are written to be parallel-installable. Packages that are to be handled this way are listed in /etc/urpmi/inst.list .

 

As for something urpmi can do that apt can't, take a look at the bottom of the screenshot bvc posted above, about urpmi --parallel - parallel execution of urpmi across an unlimited number of machines. Sure makes updating packages on a large network simple. I don't think apt can do that, yet.

 

 

iphitus pointed out to me that urpmi --upgrade <packagename> is the same as apt-get upgrade <packagename>. i never said rpm - <packagename> was an upgrade. i did say, that urpmi <packagename> is like rpm - <packagename>.

 

umm, red-carpet (as far as i know. please correct me if i am wrong here) is a gui to apt. and can do just that.

 

it would appear you can use apt to do like urpmi --parallel http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howt...kg-scanpackages its all a matter of configuration.

 

howto keep a mixed system http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howt...default-version

 

Take his example; if you have gaim-0.7.9 installed and you attempt to install a gaim-1.1.4 package with rpm -i, it will attempt to install the two packages alongside each other.

 

exactly right. you will end up with 2 versions of gaim. does urpmi do this? i never checked before. but urpmi is unattended rpm installer. the 'i' is for install. the --upgrade as iphitus pointed out to me in irc would be rpm -Uvh.

 

No, "we all know" is at most all except me. This has never happened to me with consistent use of urpmi. I take it comments from Gowator imply that he too disagrees with the 'we all know' statement. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

i have had this happen a number of times with urpmi (thats how i ended up hosing mdk numerous times) and some in suse. just that i catch them in suse. i know of alot of others who have had this, so you and Gowator are the exception.

 

Naturally, on mdk you can install srpm's by using rpm --rebuild, so that wouldn't necessarily make a urpmi based system (mdk and derivatives) lacking in features, just different.

 

from what i've read on gurus rpm site, it pertains to source rpms, and apt auto rebuilds them. so at least 1 less step.

If you want to build from source RPMs, also add the following line:

rpm-src ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/apt/ SuSE/9.2-i386 suser-guru

(note: replace "9.2-i386" by "9.1-i386", "9.0-i386" or "8.2-i386" if you're using SuSE 9.1, 9.0 or 8.2 respectively)

http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/article/install_apt4rpm.php

 

Next, how can you know that the cases where urpmi / yast couldn't manage to install a package are equal to the cases where apt first couldn't, but with the -f switch suddenly could?
a fair question. simple. after the install with yast, urpmi, what not, apt detected it as broken, i then had apt fix it.

 

You're the one with the fixation on different options impying more powerful

 

lol. nahhh. i just like playing with package managers. if i could get emerge on suse, i would.

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Guest linuxuser

linux learner

 

"apt-get upgrade" doesn't take arguments. With other words "apt-get upgrade packagename" will ignore "packagename" and upgrade the whole system.

If you want to upgrade just one package:

# apt-get install "packagename"

 

Apt will tell you whether you have the latest version or not.

 

"apt-get -f install" can optionally take arguments or not.

 

"apt-get autoclean" deletes only the packages which can no longer be downloaded.

 

It could be interesting to discuss what dpkg can do.

Examples:

# dpkg-reconfigure "packagename"

 

And then the powerful --force options, to be used with great care.

 

"apt-get dselect-upgrade" is a more powerful "apt-get dist-upgrade", similar to "aptitude dist-upgrade"

 

You can also perform an "aptitude --with-recommends dist-upgrade"

 

Sorry, I am not trying to lecture you, but to clarify things a bit.

 

Having said that, I also prefer apt to urpmi, also because the initial configuration of urpmi took me two hours last time, while configuring apt takes me only a few minutes.

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apt-get upgrade... i stand corrected.

Upgrading packages

 

Package upgrades are a great success of the APT system. They can be achieved with a single command: apt-get upgrade. You can use this command to upgrade packages within the same distribution, as well as to upgrade to a new distribution, although for the latter the command apt-get dist-upgrade is preferred; see section Upgrading to a new release, Section 3.5 for more details.

 

It's useful to run this command with the -u option. This option causes APT to show the complete list of packages which will be upgraded. Without it, you'll be upgrading blindly. APT will download the latest versions of each package and will install them in the proper order. It's important to always run apt-get update before you try this. See section Updating the list of available packages, Section 3.1. Look at this example:

 

     # apt-get -u upgrade

     Reading Package Lists... Done

     Building Dependency Tree... Done

     The following packages have been kept back

       cpp gcc lilo

     The following packages will be upgraded

       adduser ae apt autoconf debhelper dpkg-dev esound esound-common ftp indent

       ipchains isapnptools libaudiofile-dev libaudiofile0 libesd0 libesd0-dev

       libgtk1.2 libgtk1.2-dev liblockfile1 libnewt0 liborbit-dev liborbit0

       libstdc++2.10-glibc2.2 libtiff3g libtiff3g-dev modconf orbit procps psmisc

     29 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 3 not upgraded.

     Need to get 5055B/5055kB of archives. After unpacking 1161kB will be used.

     Do you want to continue? [Y/n]

 

The process is very simple. Note that in the first few lines, apt-get says that some packages were kept back. This means that there are new versions of these packages which will not be installed for some reason. Possible reasons are broken dependencies (a package on which it depends doesn't have a version available for download) or new dependencies (the package has come to depend on new packages since the last version).

 

There's no clean solution for this first case. For the second case, it's sufficient to run apt-get install for the specific package in question, as this will download the dependencies. An even cleaner solution is to use dist-upgrade. See section Upgrading to a new release, Section 3.5.

 

the apt-get clean does rm -rf /var/cache/apt/archives i have done this.

 

take note what this says

3.6 Removing unused package files: apt-get clean and autoclean

 

When you install a package APT retrieves the needed files from the hosts listed in /etc/apt/sources.list, stores them in a local repository (/var/cache/apt/archives/), and then proceeds with installation, see Installing packages, Section 3.2.

 

In time the local repository can grow and occupy a lot of disk space. Fortunately, APT provides tools for managing its local repository: apt-get's clean and autoclean methods.

 

apt-get clean removes everything except lock files from /var/cache/apt/archives/ and /var/cache/apt/archives/partial/. Thus, if you need to reinstall a package APT should retrieve it again.

 

apt-get autoclean removes only package files that can no longer be downloaded.

 

The following example show how apt-get autoclean works:

 

     # ls /var/cache/apt/archives/logrotate* /var/cache/apt/archives/gpm*

     logrotate_3.5.9-7_i386.deb

     logrotate_3.5.9-8_i386.deb

     gpm_1.19.6-11_i386.deb

 

In /var/cache/apt/archives there are two files for the package logrotate and one for the package gpm.

 

     # apt-show-versions -p logrotate

     logrotate/stable uptodate 3.5.9-8

     # apt-show-versions -p gpm

     gpm/stable upgradeable from 1.19.6-11 to 1.19.6-12

 

apt-show-versions shows that logrotate_3.5.9-8_i386.deb provides the up to date version of logrotate, so logrotate_3.5.9-7_i386.deb is useless. Also gpm_1.19.6-11_i386.deb is useless because a more recent version of the package can be retrieved.

 

     # apt-get autoclean

     Reading Package Lists... Done

     Building Dependency Tree... Done

     Del gpm 1.19.6-11 [145kB]

     Del logrotate 3.5.9-7 [26.5kB]

 

Finally, apt-get autoclean removes only the old files. See How to upgrade packages from specific versions of Debian, Section 3.9 for more information on apt-show-versions.

 

the local repository is your hard drive.

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linuxlearner:

I very much think if you were to go back to using Mandrake and URPMI with your current level of experience and knowledge but with an open mind you would find little difference in the two.

 

Its really that simple, I personally prefer apt.... but its nothing like the difference you argue and its not that its more powerful as such but I prefer the way it does it.... (and I detest the graphical Mandrake add/remove software wizards) whereas apt has many choices.

 

As adamw has ponted out the parallel oprion is powerful in certain circimstances for URPMI but equally the local apt-mopve and several other tools are also great....

 

The point for me is that for Mandrake apt has nothing worthwhile that URPMI doesn't do and if you stick to Mandrake sources + plf then I have never had more than the occaisional tuny prob and that is usually because a mirror is down or being updated or I didn't run urmpi.updatemedia before ....

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Gowator, i like choices. i like package managers. when i first started with suse, i missed urpmi. let me put it another way, the main reason i stay with suse, is because it seems to be more stable (just my obvservation here). my two favorite distros are suse and mdk.

 

as far as the repositories, i would hope you stick with your distros repos. thats why in this thread i have pointed to mdk repos for apt.

 

i have been shown some improvements to urpmi that it didnt have when i used it. mdk needs to update their manpage :P even if i were to go back to mdk, i still think i'd use apt. but true to form, i'd be using apt out of curriosity and simply cause i like package managers.

 

this debate wouldnt have gone this way if mdk had updated their manpage. i based the debate off of my experience and the mdk manpage. it sounds like urpmi really is comparable, although i do like the -f feature in apt.

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this debate wouldnt have gone this way if mdk had updated their manpage.

Being fair the real man page is updated, just not the web one you looked at.

let me put it another way, the main reason i stay with suse, is because it seems to be more stable (just my obvservation here)

 

I agree, I just hate YAST... Suse is way more professional in many ways than Mandrake ... at least YAST actually works whereas many of the MDK tools just break your system... but I just don't like the lack of choice... if I could use suse without YAST I probably would... indeed Im giving 9.2 a trial (though not for my personal use)...

 

Nor will I be using a distro (personally) that deliberatly hacks Xine to prevent it using libdvdcss. like i say I value my choice to much...

 

but URMPI is a good part of mandrake (excluding the stupid wizards) and the old pre 9.0 urpmi GUI was much better.. and more synaptic like...

 

 

once again Mandrake not updating the web copy of urpmi man is ... well mandrake like...its what I love and hate from them... LOL

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iphitus pointed out to me that urpmi --upgrade <packagename> is the same as apt-get upgrade <packagename>. i never said rpm - <packagename> was an upgrade. i did say, that urpmi <packagename> is like rpm - <packagename>.

 

umm, red-carpet (as far as i know. please correct me if i am wrong here) is a gui to apt. and can do just that.

 

it would appear you can use apt to do like urpmi --parallel http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howt...kg-scanpackages its all a matter of configuration.

 

howto keep a mixed system http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howt...default-version

 

Take his example; if you have gaim-0.7.9 installed and you attempt to install a gaim-1.1.4 package with rpm -i, it will attempt to install the two packages alongside each other.

 

exactly right. you will end up with 2 versions of gaim. does urpmi do this? i never checked before. but urpmi is unattended rpm installer. the 'i' is for install. the --upgrade as iphitus pointed out to me in irc would be rpm -Uvh.

 

 

Yikes, here we go again. 99% of the time urpmi --upgrade does nothing, because upgrading is urpmi's *default* method of operation for 99% of packages. As I wrote, it does the equivalent of rpm -U. The fact that urpmi stands for user-mode rpm installer is neither here nor there (it's not like it's user-mode any more, either.) The only time --upgrade would actually *do* anything is if a package that operation dealt with was in /etc/urpmi/inst.list . As I said, for packages in this file, by default urpmi will do the equivalent of rpm -i instead of rpm -U . The only significant package of this type is the kernel. So if you did, for instance, urpmi --upgrade kernel , it would install the new kernel package and remove the old kernel package instead of installing the new one in parallel with the old. If, however, you did urpmi --upgrade gedit , it would be *exactly the same* as urpmi gedit , because updating is the default action for gedit (and almost all other packages) in any case. Whichever command you did, it would install the new gedit over the old one. Clear?

 

The link you gave for apt doesn't have anything to do with urpmi's parallel functionality. It's about defining local repositories for a single machine (i.e., if you just have a directory full of RPMs or DEBs on your machine, making 'em into a repository). urpmi can do this too, but it's not the same as parallel, which is about doing a single urpmi operation and having it apply to tens, hundreds or thousands of machines simultaneously.

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Guest linuxuser
Not sure what you mean by using non MDK packages, you don't have to do that. This is my apt sources list pre- installed. ( thacs mdk version of apt )...

 

anon

 

Would it be possible to edit your sources list to point to cooker rather than 10.1?

Just put "cooker" in place of "10.1"? And would it work?

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Guest anon
Just put "cooker" in place of "10.1"? And would it work?

I don't see how that woud work with apt or urpmi, cooker is in a different directory. But maybe i have misread yor question?

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Guest linuxuser
I don't see how that woud work with apt or urpmi, cooker is in a different directory. But maybe i have misread yor question?

Thanks, I believe I was wrong to start with. I thought "cooker" and "10.1" worked as "stable" and "unstable" in Debian.

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Guest anon
I thought "cooker" and "10.1" worked as "stable" and "unstable" in Debian.

It does i believe, but the MDK version doesn't understand that type of source url format. (stable main contrib non-free etc )

Also atm it only reads hdlist and not synthesis. But it works a treat for me although i never got the hang of the synaptic gui thing, i spend too much time in a consol i guess. :D

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Guest linuxuser
Also atm it only reads hdlist and not synthesis. But it works a treat for me although i never got the hang of the synaptic gui thing, i spend too much time in a consol i guess. :D

 

Thanks again. As to the CLI and synaptic, I use them both: the CLI when I need to get some serious work done and synaptic when I feel lazy :D

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