a13x Posted January 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 (edited) Don't listen to all these whiners about the time it takes to compile - type emerge -u world, go to bed, and when you wake up your system is up to date. Wow, what an inconvenience, eh? And waiting a few minutes longer for a new program is so worth it. They can't find anything wrong with Gentoo, so they resort to whining about compile times. Pfff. (Not stabbing at anyone or being serious, relax tongue.gif ) That's what I do. :D My Gentoo improves itself while I sleep. I must say, I'm impressed with the system's performance. I was compiling a kernel and smb4k at the same time, surfing the web and the system was very responsive and stable. You can never get that in winblows and some other distros. Well I had a friend who used Gentoo as his first distro ever and had no problems installing it. Really, all you have to do is follow the instructions carefully. It might be time consuming, but it's certainly not difficult. Your friend was comfortable with computers, technology etc but most people aren't like that. He's a natural probably ;). I believe it is better to take it easy (for most people). First install an easy to use distro like Mandrake. Learn the basics, then go for something harder like Gentoo. <SARCASM>No more urpmi-crap in Mandrake, no more of Red Hat's bastard child Fedora or the geek-snob, anal-retentiveness of the Arch community or even the backwardness of Ubuntu. </SARCASM> Talk about Ubuntu, I'll never use a distro that is optimized for i386 - a waste of CPU power in my case at least. I installed and played a little with Slackware 9.2 a few days ago ... /me doesn't like Slackware. I prefer the Gentoo CLI install rather than that stupid ncurses interface. It's stable no doubt, but Gentoo is faster and it's package management system superior. AFAIK Debian uses old packages and is very stable but as you can see (in my sig) I want to use bleeding edge stuff that is quite stable ....... never had a crash or lock down in Gentoo. So out of the 3 "l33t" distros the only one that suits me is Gentoo. Edited January 16, 2005 by a13x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac_dispatcher Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Behold the power of Portage!!!! root@arora acdispatcher # emerge --help Usage: emerge [ options ] [ action ] [ ebuildfile | tbz2file | dependency ] [ ... ] emerge [ options ] [ action ] < system | world > emerge < --sync | --metadata | --info > emerge --resume [ --pretend | --ask | --skipfirst ] emerge --help [ system | config | sync ] Options: -[abcCdDefhikKlnoOpPsSuUvV] [--oneshot] [--newuse] [--noconfmem] [--columns] [--nospinner] Actions: [ --clean | --depclean | --inject | --prune | --regen | --search | --unmerge ] Help (this screen): --help (-h short option) Displays this help; an additional argument (see above) will tell emerge to display detailed help. Actions: --clean (-c short option) Cleans the system by removing outdated packages which will not remove functionalities or prevent your system from working. The arguments can be in several different formats : * world * system or * 'dependency specification' (in single quotes is best.) Here are a few examples of the dependency specification format: binutils matches binutils-2.11.90.0.7 and binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1 >binutils-2.11.90.0.7 matches binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1 sys-devel/binutils matches binutils-2.11.90.0.7 and binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1 sys-devel/binutils-2.11.90.0.7 matches binutils-2.11.90.0.7 >sys-devel/binutils-2.11.90.0.7 matches binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1 >=sys-devel/binutils-2.11.90.0.7 matches binutils-2.11.90.0.7 and binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1 <sys-devel/binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1 matches binutils-2.11.90.0.7 <=sys-devel/binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1 matches binutils-2.11.90.0.7 and binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1 --depclean Cleans the system by removing packages that are not associated with explicitly merged packages. Depclean works by creating the full dependency tree from the system list and the world file, then comparing it to installed packages. Packages installed, but not associated with an explicit merge are listed as candidates for unmerging. WARNING: This can seriously affect your system by removing packages that may have been linked against, but due to changes in USE flags may no longer be part of the dep tree. Use caution when employing this feature. --info Displays important portage variables that will be exported to ebuild.sh when performing merges. This information is useful for bug reports and verification of settings. All settings in make.{conf,globals,defaults} and the environment show up if run with the '--verbose' flag. --inject (-i short option) Add a stub entry for a package so that Portage thinks that it's installed when it really isn't. Handy if you roll your own packages. Example: emerge --inject sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-2.4.19 --metadata Causes portage to process all the metacache files as is normally done on the tail end of an rsync update using emerge --sync. The processing creates the cache database that portage uses for pre-parsed lookups of package data. --prune (-P short option) WARNING: This action can remove important packages! Removes all older versions of a package from your system. This action doesn't always verify the possible binary incompatibility between versions and can thus remove essential dependencies from your system. The argument format is the same as for the --clean action. --regen Causes portage to check and update the dependency cache of all ebuilds in the portage tree. This is not recommended for rsync users as rsync updates the cache using server-side caches. Rsync users should simply 'emerge --sync' to regenerate. --search (-s short option) searches for matches of the supplied string in the current local portage tree. The search string is a regular expression. A few examples: emerge search '^kde' list all packages starting with kde emerge search 'gcc$' list all packages ending with gcc emerge search '' or emerge search '.*' list all available packages --unmerge (-C short option) WARNING: This action can remove important packages! Removes all matching packages without checking for outdated versions, effectively removing a package completely from your system. Specify arguments using the dependency specification format described in the --clean action above. Options: --ask (-a short option) before performing the merge, display what ebuilds and tbz2s will be installed, in the same format as when using --pretend; then ask whether to continue with the merge or abort. Using --ask is more efficient than using --pretend and then executing the same command without --pretend, as dependencies will only need to be calculated once. --buildpkg (-b short option) tell emerge to build binary packages for all ebuilds processed (in addition to actually merging the packages. Useful for maintainers or if you administrate multiple Gentoo Linux systems (build once, emerge tbz2s everywhere). --buildpkgonly (-B short option) Creates a binary package, but does not merge it to the system. This has the restriction that unsatisfied dependencies must not exist for the desired package as they cannot be used if they do not exist on the system. --changelog (-l short option) When pretending, also display the ChangeLog entries for packages that will be upgraded. --columns Display the pretend output in a tabular form. Versions are aligned vertically. --debug (-d short option) Tell emerge to run the ebuild command in --debug mode. In this mode, the bash build environment will run with the -x option, causing it to output verbose debug information print to stdout. --debug is great for finding bash syntax errors as providing very verbose information about the dependency and build process. --deep (-D short option) When used in conjunction with --update, this flag forces emerge to consider the entire dependency tree of packages, instead of checking only the immediate dependencies of the packages. As an example, this catches updates in libraries that are not directly listed in the dependencies of a package. --emptytree (-e short option) Virtually tweaks the tree of installed packages to only contain libc, this is great to use together with --pretend. This makes it possible for developers to get a complete overview of the complete dependency tree of a certain package. --fetchonly (-f short option) Instead of doing any package building, just perform fetches for all packages (main package as well as all dependencies.) When used in combination with --pretend all the SRC_URIs will be displayed multiple mirrors per line, one line per file. --fetch-all-uri Instead of doing any package building, just perform fetches for all packages (main package as well as all dependencies.), grabbing all possible files. When used in combination with --pretend all the SRC_URIs will be displayed multiple mirrors per line, one line per file. --getbinpkg (-g short option) Using the server and location defined in PORTAGE_BINHOST, portage will download the information from each binary file there and it will use that information to help build the dependency list. This option implies '-k'. (Use -gK for binary-only merging.) --getbinpkgonly (-G short option) This option is identical to -g, as above, except it will not use ANY information from the local machine. All binaries will be downloaded from the remote server without consulting packages existing in the packages directory. --newuse Tells emerge to include installed packages where USE flags have changed since installation. --noconfmem Portage keeps track of files that have been placed into CONFIG_PROTECT directories, and normally it will not merge the same file more than once, as that would become annoying. This can lead to problems when the user wants the file in the case of accidental deletion. With this option, files will always be merged to the live fs instead of silently dropped. --nodeps (-O short option) Merge specified packages, but don't merge any dependencies. Note that the build may fail if deps aren't satisfied. --noreplace (-n short option) Skip the packages specified on the command-line that have already been installed. Without this option, any packages, ebuilds, or deps you specify on the command-line *will* cause Portage to remerge the package, even if it is already installed. Note that Portage won't remerge dependencies by default. --nospinner Disables the spinner regardless of terminal type. --oneshot Emerge as normal, but don't add packages to the world profile. This package will only be updated if it is depended upon by another package. --onlydeps (-o short option) Only merge (or pretend to merge) the dependencies of the specified packages, not the packages themselves. --pretend (-p short option) instead of actually performing the merge, simply display what ebuilds and tbz2s *would* have been installed if --pretend weren't used. Using --pretend is strongly recommended before installing an unfamiliar package. In the printout, N = new, U = updating, R = replacing, F = fetch restricted, B = blocked by an already installed package, D = possible downgrading. --verbose causes affecting use flags to be printed out accompanied by a '+' for enabled and a '-' for disabled flags. --quiet (-q short option) Effects vary, but the general outcome is a reduced or condensed output from portage's displays. --resume Resumes the last merge operation. Can be treated just like a regular merge as --pretend and other options work along side. 'emerge --resume' only returns an error on failure. Nothing to do exits with a message and a success condition. --searchdesc (-S short option) Matches the search string against the description field as well the package's name. Take caution as the descriptions are also matched as regular expressions. emerge -S html emerge -S applet emerge -S 'perl.*module' --skipfirst This option is only valid in a resume situation. It removes the first package in the resume list so that a merge may continue in the presence of an uncorrectable or inconsequential error. This should only be used in cases where skipping the package will not result in failed dependencies. --tree (-t short option) Shows the dependency tree using indentation for dependencies. Only really useful in combination with --emptytree, --update or --deep. --update (-u short option) Updates packages to the best version available, which may not always be the highest version number due to masking for testing and development. This will also update direct dependencies which may not what you want. In general use this option only in combi- nation with the world or system target. --upgradeonly (-U short option) Updates packages, but excludes updates that would result in a lower version of the package being installed. SLOTs are considered at a basic level. WARNING: This option is deprecated and shouldn't be used anymore. Please use the /etc/portage/package.* files from now on. --usepkg (-k short option) Tell emerge to use binary packages (from $PKGDIR) if they are available, thus possibly avoiding some time-consuming compiles. This option is useful for CD installs; you can export PKGDIR=/mnt/cdrom/packages and then use this option to have emerge "pull" binary packages from the CD in order to satisfy dependencies. --usepkgonly (-K short option) Like --usepkg above, except this only allows the use of binary packages, and it will abort the emerge if the package is not available at the time of dependency calculation. --verbose (-v short option) Effects vary, but the general outcome is an increased or expanded display of content in portage's displays. --version (-V short option) Displays the currently installed version of portage along with other information useful for quick reference on a system. See emerge info for more advanced information. Porthole is good but makes all those options unavailable. Oh compaired to apt: bash: apt: command not found root@arora:/ # apt-get --help apt 0.6.29 for linux i386 compiled on Dec 29 2004 02:07:09 Usage: apt-get [options] command apt-get [options] install|remove pkg1 [pkg2 ...] apt-get [options] source pkg1 [pkg2 ...] apt-get is a simple command line interface for downloading and installing packages. The most frequently used commands are update and install. Commands: update - Retrieve new lists of packages upgrade - Perform an upgrade install - Install new packages (pkg is libc6 not libc6.deb) remove - Remove packages source - Download source archives build-dep - Configure build-dependencies for source packages dist-upgrade - Distribution upgrade, see apt-get(8) dselect-upgrade - Follow dselect selections clean - Erase downloaded archive files autoclean - Erase old downloaded archive files check - Verify that there are no broken dependencies Options: -h This help text. -q Loggable output - no progress indicator -qq No output except for errors -d Download only - do NOT install or unpack archives -s No-act. Perform ordering simulation -y Assume Yes to all queries and do not prompt -f Attempt to continue if the integrity check fails -m Attempt to continue if archives are unlocatable -u Show a list of upgraded packages as well -b Build the source package after fetching it -V Show verbose version numbers -c=? Read this configuration file -o=? Set an arbitary configuration option, eg -o dir::cache=/tmp See the apt-get(8), sources.list(5) and apt.conf(5) manual pages for more information and options. This APT has Super Cow Powers. Apt is cool but Im a tweak freak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac_dispatcher Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 By the way did you prelink? http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/prelink-howto.xml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a13x Posted January 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Nope. AFAIK prelinking makes files larger and more memory hungry but also faster. When I'll get myself more RAM and a larger hd I'll prelink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 (edited) I just leave the PC on in the night. First, it downloads everything needed, than it starts compiling. The next day I check for errors and resolve them. This is how I do all my massive downloading, upgrading etc. Don't listen to all these whiners about the time it takes to compile - type emerge -u world, go to bed, and when you wake up your system is up to date. Wow, what an inconvenience, eh? And waiting a few minutes longer for a new program is so worth it. They can't find anything wrong with Gentoo, so they resort to whining about compile times. Pfff. (Not stabbing at anyone or being serious, relaxactually yes, it is a major inconvenience...I can't afford a new cpu or motherboard every year (like people I know have had to do)....burn baby burn...that cpu I found a lot wrong with gentoo, in fact the entire concept is bad and useless especially for the experienced. Optimization is no excuse as next to nothing is gained on faster machines and I was spending more time fixing crap in gentoo than I did in LFS ;) Well I had a friend who used Gentoo as his first distro ever and had no problems installing it. Really, all you have to do is follow the instructions carefully. It might be time consuming, but it's certainly not difficult. Debian is a great distro as well (they all are, depending on what you want to do) - Debian is IMO, also more _difficult_ to install than Gentoo. I know people who's first distro was slack....not much help available there. Debian is one of the easiest distros to install. Just because there's no gui/mouse (windozer's clickity_clicky) and one has to use a keyboard it's difficult? I've never understood this. The questions are the same, generally, for all distros. Any distro w/o a gui/mouse installer is considered difficult. Your friend was comfortable with computers, technology etc but most people aren't like that. He's a natural probably wink.gif. I believe it is better to take it easy (for most people). First install an easy to use distro like Mandrake. Learn the basics, then go for something harder like Gentoo.Gentoo is not hard, or even harder. It's just a diff set of commands is all. You do not learn anything in any distro that can not be learned in any other distro. Linux is linux. What you learn is distro specific commands. That's learning a distro....not learning linux. You want to learn linux? Install LFS or run a bare bones red-hat server....cli only ;) Mandrake doesn't teach you the basics....it teaches you rpm and lets you clickity_click like a windozer. Nothing wrong with that of course. If you learned linux in mandrake, you learned. But you learn linux, regardless of the distro, if you so choose. The distro has nothing to do with it. Talk about Ubuntu, I'll never use a distro that is optimized for i386 - a waste of CPU power in my case at least.there as much a diff in a binary 386 to a compiled, so called optimized 686 as a 586 to a compiled, so called optimized 686. Misconception: geeks, technoheads use gentoo truth is, the geeks and technoheads are using debian unstable and rawhide or fedora ;) any time spent in the linux community will show anyone that wannabe geeks and technoheads (scriptkiddies) use gentoo (!generally speaking!) ...makes them feel like something they are not. apt compiles from source, and for any opt you want ;) apt and urpmi do not need to be ran more than one occurance as they take care of all in one command ;) debian/ubuntu out of date? show me your pkg versions and I'll show you mine ;) ...oh, and I haven't updated in over a month :lol: Edited January 16, 2005 by bvc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a13x Posted January 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 I feel a distro war coming on ...... :lol: actually yes, it is a major inconvenience...I can't afford a new cpu or motherboard every year (like people I know have had to do)....burn baby burn...that cpu 18.gif I found a lot wrong with gentoo, in fact the entire concept is bad and useless especially for the experienced. Optimization is no excuse as next to nothing is gained on faster machines and I was spending more time fixing crap in gentoo than I did in LFS wink.gif What is there to fix ? I just followed the install instructions and it works. No hacking, no head aches. I know people who's first distro was slack....not much help available there. Debian is one of the easiest distros to install. Just because there's no gui/mouse (windozer's clickity_clicky) and one has to use a keyboard it's difficult? I've never understood this. The questions are the same, generally, for all distros. Any distro w/o a gui/mouse installer is considered difficult. Agreed. Gentoo is not hard, or even harder. It's just a diff set of commands is all. You do not learn anything in any distro that can not be learned in any other distro. Linux is linux. What you learn is distro specific commands. That's learning a distro....not learning linux. You want to learn linux? Install LFS or run a bare bones red-hat server....cli only wink.gif Mandrake doesn't teach you the basics....it teaches you rpm and lets you clickity_click like a windozer. Nothing wrong with that of course. If you learned linux in mandrake, you learned. But you learn linux, regardless of the distro, if you so choose. The distro has nothing to do with it. It is harder. Everyone (well, almost) can install Mandrake but many have this "fear of the CLI" that prevents them from doing Gentoo install. It's true you can learn Linux from every distro but Gentoo forces you to learn while Mandrake offers a comfortable Windows-like environment. The majority of Windows users don't know much about computers and stuff because of this 'ease of use'. They don't realize what 'happens behind the scenes'. In Gentoo you don't have all those nice GUI configuration tools that do the dirty work. So these are 2 big reasons why Gentoo is considered hard. wannabe geeks and technoheads (scriptkiddies) use gentoo (!generally speaking!) ...makes them feel like something they are not. Not my case ... and I don't believe this. You are saying that Gentoo users are ignorants and snobs. Having a working Gentoo on your PC makes you proud for a short time because you know you have achieved something more difficult than the others, that's all. debian/ubuntu out of date? show me your pkg versions and I'll show you mine wink.gif ...oh, and I haven't updated in over a month I'm talking about the stable versions of the distros not the devel ones. AFAIK Debian stable uses old packages while Gentoo stable (and others) have more recent ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 erk, gentoo bashing in progress... /me breathes deeply i'm not gonna bite ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 (edited) Gentoo is not hard, or even harder. It's just a diff set of commands is all. You do not learn anything in any distro that can not be learned in any other distro. Linux is linux. What you learn is distro specific commands. That's learning a distro....not learning linux. You want to learn linux? Install LFS or run a bare bones red-hat server....cli only wink.gif Mandrake doesn't teach you the basics....it teaches you rpm and lets you clickity_click like a windozer. Nothing wrong with that of course. If you learned linux in mandrake, you learned. But you learn linux, regardless of the distro, if you so choose. The distro has nothing to do with it. It is harder. Everyone (well, almost) can install Mandrake but many have this "fear of the CLI" that prevents them from doing Gentoo install. It's true you can learn Linux from every distro but Gentoo forces you to learn while Mandrake offers a comfortable Windows-like environment. The majority of Windows users don't know much about computers and stuff because of this 'ease of use'. They don't realize what 'happens behind the scenes'. In Gentoo you don't have all those nice GUI configuration tools that do the dirty work. So these are 2 big reasons why Gentoo is considered hard. wannabe geeks and technoheads (scriptkiddies) use gentoo (!generally speaking!) ...makes them feel like something they are not. Not my case ... and I don't believe this. You are saying that Gentoo users are ignorants and snobs. Having a working Gentoo on your PC makes you proud for a short time because you know you have achieved something more difficult than the others, that's all. debian/ubuntu out of date? show me your pkg versions and I'll show you mine wink.gif ...oh, and I haven't updated in over a month I'm talking about the stable versions of the distros not the devel ones. AFAIK Debian stable uses old packages while Gentoo stable (and others) have more recent ones. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> it is not harder to read a few docs and thus a few commands. If people have not the strength to learn linux in mandrake and need a gentoo to force them to learn cli, well that's rediculous. Seriously. It is. That tells me they really do not want to learn. All that has been accomplished is the reading of a few docs and robotically typing a few commands...there's nothing to be proud of. Wanna feel proud install LFS but even that is a matter of copy/paste and reading the docs. The diff is that you actually learn what it all means. You learn linux. Though you c/p you have to read it all and make sure not one character is missing and all syntax is correct. Most that run debian do not run stable. That's lame. Unstable is the choice of deb users. It is the main so that is was should be compared ;) Edited January 16, 2005 by bvc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulSe Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 I just leave the PC on in the night. First, it downloads everything needed, than it starts compiling. The next day I check for errors and resolve them. This is how I do all my massive downloading, upgrading etc. Don't listen to all these whiners about the time it takes to compile - type emerge -u world, go to bed, and when you wake up your system is up to date. Wow, what an inconvenience, eh? And waiting a few minutes longer for a new program is so worth it. They can't find anything wrong with Gentoo, so they resort to whining about compile times. Pfff. (Not stabbing at anyone or being serious, relaxactually yes, it is a major inconvenience...I can't afford a new cpu or motherboard every year (like people I know have had to do)....burn baby burn...that cpu I found a lot wrong with gentoo, in fact the entire concept is bad and useless especially for the experienced. Optimization is no excuse as next to nothing is gained on faster machines and I was spending more time fixing crap in gentoo than I did in LFS Well I had a friend who used Gentoo as his first distro ever and had no problems installing it. Really, all you have to do is follow the instructions carefully. It might be time consuming, but it's certainly not difficult. Debian is a great distro as well (they all are, depending on what you want to do) - Debian is IMO, also more _difficult_ to install than Gentoo. I know people who's first distro was slack....not much help available there. Debian is one of the easiest distros to install. Just because there's no gui/mouse (windozer's clickity_clicky) and one has to use a keyboard it's difficult? I've never understood this. The questions are the same, generally, for all distros. Any distro w/o a gui/mouse installer is considered difficult. Your friend was comfortable with computers, technology etc but most people aren't like that. He's a natural probably wink.gif. I believe it is better to take it easy (for most people). First install an easy to use distro like Mandrake. Learn the basics, then go for something harder like Gentoo.Gentoo is not hard, or even harder. It's just a diff set of commands is all. You do not learn anything in any distro that can not be learned in any other distro. Linux is linux. What you learn is distro specific commands. That's learning a distro....not learning linux. You want to learn linux? Install LFS or run a bare bones red-hat server....cli only Mandrake doesn't teach you the basics....it teaches you rpm and lets you clickity_click like a windozer. Nothing wrong with that of course. If you learned linux in mandrake, you learned. But you learn linux, regardless of the distro, if you so choose. The distro has nothing to do with it. Talk about Ubuntu, I'll never use a distro that is optimized for i386 - a waste of CPU power in my case at least.there as much a diff in a binary 386 to a compiled, so called optimized 686 as a 586 to a compiled, so called optimized 686. Misconception: geeks, technoheads use gentoo truth is, the geeks and technoheads are using debian unstable and rawhide or fedora ;) any time spent in the linux community will show anyone that wannabe geeks and technoheads (scriptkiddies) use gentoo (!generally speaking!) ...makes them feel like something they are not. apt compiles from source, and for any opt you want ;) apt and urpmi do not need to be ran more than one occurance as they take care of all in one command ;) debian/ubuntu out of date? show me your pkg versions and I'll show you mine ;) ...oh, and I haven't updated in over a month :lol: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ^^ Linux snob right there. And how can you presume to speak for every geek alive? Your words: "truth is, the geeks and technoheads are using debian unstable and rawhide or fedora ;)" Bullcrap! Paul will out-geek anyone I know and he uses Gentoo (sorry to drag you into this Paul :P ). My friend Ian who owns a local ISP uses Slackware... I could provide you with more examples. Serious geeks using Fedora? Maybe one or two. Not that I'm a serious geek, I've just found the distro that works for me and it's called Gentoo. Labelling me (and all the other Gentoo users on this board) a "wanna-be" geek is not fair though. In fact it's snobby and infantile. Oh, and your story about burning out CPUs is screwy. That's like saying I shouldn't drive my new Ferrari too fast in case I burn it out. Gimme a break... I do agree with most of the rest of your points though I know how we can settle this dispute: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 (edited) I just leave the PC on in the night. First, it downloads everything needed, than it starts compiling. The next day I check for errors and resolve them. This is how I do all my massive downloading, upgrading etc. Don't listen to all these whiners about the time it takes to compile - type emerge -u world, go to bed, and when you wake up your system is up to date. Wow, what an inconvenience, eh? And waiting a few minutes longer for a new program is so worth it. They can't find anything wrong with Gentoo, so they resort to whining about compile times. Pfff. (Not stabbing at anyone or being serious, relaxactually yes, it is a major inconvenience...I can't afford a new cpu or motherboard every year (like people I know have had to do)....burn baby burn...that cpu I found a lot wrong with gentoo, in fact the entire concept is bad and useless especially for the experienced. Optimization is no excuse as next to nothing is gained on faster machines and I was spending more time fixing crap in gentoo than I did in LFS Well I had a friend who used Gentoo as his first distro ever and had no problems installing it. Really, all you have to do is follow the instructions carefully. It might be time consuming, but it's certainly not difficult. Debian is a great distro as well (they all are, depending on what you want to do) - Debian is IMO, also more _difficult_ to install than Gentoo. I know people who's first distro was slack....not much help available there. Debian is one of the easiest distros to install. Just because there's no gui/mouse (windozer's clickity_clicky) and one has to use a keyboard it's difficult? I've never understood this. The questions are the same, generally, for all distros. Any distro w/o a gui/mouse installer is considered difficult. Your friend was comfortable with computers, technology etc but most people aren't like that. He's a natural probably wink.gif. I believe it is better to take it easy (for most people). First install an easy to use distro like Mandrake. Learn the basics, then go for something harder like Gentoo.Gentoo is not hard, or even harder. It's just a diff set of commands is all. You do not learn anything in any distro that can not be learned in any other distro. Linux is linux. What you learn is distro specific commands. That's learning a distro....not learning linux. You want to learn linux? Install LFS or run a bare bones red-hat server....cli only Mandrake doesn't teach you the basics....it teaches you rpm and lets you clickity_click like a windozer. Nothing wrong with that of course. If you learned linux in mandrake, you learned. But you learn linux, regardless of the distro, if you so choose. The distro has nothing to do with it. Talk about Ubuntu, I'll never use a distro that is optimized for i386 - a waste of CPU power in my case at least.there as much a diff in a binary 386 to a compiled, so called optimized 686 as a 586 to a compiled, so called optimized 686. Misconception: geeks, technoheads use gentoo truth is, the geeks and technoheads are using debian unstable and rawhide or fedora ;) any time spent in the linux community will show anyone that wannabe geeks and technoheads (scriptkiddies) use gentoo (!generally speaking!) ...makes them feel like something they are not. apt compiles from source, and for any opt you want ;) apt and urpmi do not need to be ran more than one occurance as they take care of all in one command ;) debian/ubuntu out of date? show me your pkg versions and I'll show you mine ;) ...oh, and I haven't updated in over a month <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ^^ Linux snob right there. And how can you presume to speak for every geek alive? Your words: "truth is, the geeks and technoheads are using debian unstable and rawhide or fedora ;)" Bullcrap! Paul will out-geek anyone I know and he uses Gentoo (sorry to drag you into this Paul :P ). My friend Ian who owns a local ISP uses Slackware... I could provide you with more examples. Serious geeks using Fedora? Maybe one or two. Not that I'm a serious geek, I've just found the distro that works for me and it's called Gentoo. Labelling me (and all the other Gentoo users on this board) a "wanna-be" geek is not fair though. In fact it's snobby and infantile. Oh, and your story about burning out CPUs is screwy. That's like saying I shouldn't drive my new Ferrari too fast in case I burn it out. Gimme a break... I do agree with most of the rest of your points though I know how we can settle this dispute: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I called no one snobs as you have <mod breaking board guidelines> I inserted the "(!generally speaking!)" but this is only ok for you to do and no one else? who's the snob here and the one acting infantile? Did I say all geeks use anything? No I did not. I did say most though but you obviously can not read. Mentioning a few examples means nothing as I'm sure we all know a geek for every distro. Pointless. again people twist and turn what is said to what they want because of a distro they use? grow up already! and yes...if you drive that Ferrari as it was made to be driven you will have more problems. You aren't really going to deny that are you? You have proven my point tank_u keep your eye open for the cpu sales!...unless you are one that has $ to burn with that cpu I'm all for a beer and laying this down though! gulp, gulp bye Edited January 16, 2005 by bvc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulSe Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 I'm shocked! That really doesn't warrant a reply. I'm off to upgrade my Gentoo. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anon Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 General comment. *Sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a13x Posted January 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 (edited) it is not harder to read a few docs and thus a few commands. If people have not the strength to learn linux in mandrake and need a gentoo to force them to learn cli, well that's rediculous. Seriously. It is. That tells me they really do not want to learn. All that has been accomplished is the reading of a few docs and robotically typing a few commands...there's nothing to be proud of. Wanna feel proud install LFS but even that is a matter of copy/paste and reading the docs. The diff is that you actually learn what it all means. You learn linux. Though you c/p you have to read it all and make sure not one character is missing and all syntax is correct. Most that run debian do not run stable. That's lame. Unstable is the choice of deb users. It is the main so that is was should be compared wink.gif This post has been edited by bvc: Today, 08:18 PM Not all people have that ambition to learn. They need more stimulus. Our own nature tells us to pick the easy way to resolve a problem that is by using GUI tools. That's one of the reasons why winblows dominates the OS market. Would you learn C++ right now ? You know it would do you good because you could write programs but you need more stimulus than just will. The Gentoo handbook also makes you understand what those commands do so it contributes to your linux knowledge. and yes...if you drive that Ferrari as it was made to be driven you will have more problems. You aren't really going to deny that are you? You have proven my point tank_u A CPU with good cooling should resist to heavy usage. I'm off to upgrade my Gentoo. wink.gif Good idea. I'm going to do something productive myself. Edited January 16, 2005 by a13x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlc Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 /me wonders if I'm one of the "one or two" Soulse was talking about using Fedora, of course when I think about all the Developers that work for RH/NSA/<company here> that run/work/develops on Fedora, there has to be more than me and some other dude, cause I don't work for RH/NSA and pretty sure it takes more than one guy to crank everything out............ :P Maybe not, I guess I'm just joe average since Fedora is so un-ubber 3llit3 and was created for noobies by noobies. We all know the RH folks have no idea what there doing with Linux, look at that thing they call RHEL? Enterprise, why not just run gentoo in the enterprise, it's so cool and greate. What, Fedora is the test bed and main push for NSA's SELinux, SELinux, that sounds like a fad and will go away soon.......... Thats it, I'm dumping RH/Fedora and moving on to something that actually uses stuff that the "real Linux'" uses, you know these ubber sweet distros like gentoo and such. For real, what can I learn on Fedora, it only has Linux stuff, isn't there more to Linux than a distro with Linux stuff that uses Linux stuff and you could possibly install other Linux stuff from what I've heard, but I'm to affraid to break out of the norm and just use my noobie box for playing mp3s and surfing the web........... :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 i knew that was coming.... ...just didn't know what was taking you so long to show up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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