Gentoo review

[a13x]

Don't listen to all these whiners about the time it takes to compile - type emerge -u world, go to bed, and when you wake up your system is up to date. Wow, what an inconvenience, eh? And waiting a few minutes longer for a new program is so worth it. They can't find anything wrong with Gentoo, so they resort to whining about compile times. Pfff. (Not stabbing at anyone or being serious, relax tongue.gif )

 

That's what I do. :D My Gentoo improves itself while I sleep.

 

I must say, I'm impressed with the system's performance. I was compiling a kernel and smb4k at the same time, surfing the web and the system was very responsive and stable. You can never get that in winblows and some other distros.

 

Well I had a friend who used Gentoo as his first distro ever and had no problems installing it. Really, all you have to do is follow the instructions carefully. It might be time consuming, but it's certainly not difficult.

 

Your friend was comfortable with computers, technology etc but most people aren't like that. He's a natural probably ;). I believe it is better to take it easy (for most people). First install an easy to use distro like Mandrake. Learn the basics, then go for something harder like Gentoo.

 

<SARCASM>No more urpmi-crap in Mandrake, no more of Red Hat's bastard child Fedora or the geek-snob, anal-retentiveness of the Arch community or even the backwardness of Ubuntu. </SARCASM>

 

Talk about Ubuntu, I'll never use a distro that is optimized for i386 - a waste of CPU power in my case at least.

 

 

I installed and played a little with Slackware 9.2 a few days ago ...

/me doesn't like Slackware. I prefer the Gentoo CLI install rather than that stupid ncurses interface. It's stable no doubt, but Gentoo is faster and it's package management system superior.

AFAIK Debian uses old packages and is very stable but as you can see (in my sig) I want to use bleeding edge stuff that is quite stable ....... never had a crash or lock down in Gentoo.

So out of the 3 "l33t" distros the only one that suits me is Gentoo.

Edited January 16, 2005 by a13x

[ac_dispatcher]

Behold the power of Portage!!!!

 

root@arora acdispatcher # emerge --help


Usage:
 emerge [ options ] [ action ] [ ebuildfile | tbz2file | dependency ] [ ... ]
 emerge [ options ] [ action ] < system | world >
 emerge < --sync | --metadata | --info >
 emerge --resume [ --pretend | --ask | --skipfirst ]
 emerge --help [ system | config | sync ]
Options: -[abcCdDefhikKlnoOpPsSuUvV] [--oneshot] [--newuse] [--noconfmem]
                                   [--columns] [--nospinner]
Actions: [ --clean | --depclean | --inject | --prune | --regen | --search | --unmerge ]


Help (this screen):
     --help (-h short option)
             Displays this help; an additional argument (see above) will tell
             emerge to display detailed help.

Actions:
     --clean (-c short option)
             Cleans the system by removing outdated packages which will not
             remove functionalities or prevent your system from working.
             The arguments can be in several different formats :
             * world
             * system or
             * 'dependency specification' (in single quotes is best.)
             Here are a few examples of the dependency specification format:
             binutils matches
                 binutils-2.11.90.0.7 and binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1
             >binutils-2.11.90.0.7 matches
                 binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1
             sys-devel/binutils matches
                 binutils-2.11.90.0.7 and binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1
             sys-devel/binutils-2.11.90.0.7 matches
                 binutils-2.11.90.0.7
             >sys-devel/binutils-2.11.90.0.7 matches
                 binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1
             >=sys-devel/binutils-2.11.90.0.7 matches
                 binutils-2.11.90.0.7 and binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1
             <sys-devel/binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1 matches
                 binutils-2.11.90.0.7
             <=sys-devel/binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1 matches
                 binutils-2.11.90.0.7 and binutils-2.11.92.0.12.3-r1

     --depclean
             Cleans the system by removing packages that are not associated
             with explicitly merged packages. Depclean works by creating the
             full dependency tree from the system list and the world file,
             then comparing it to installed packages. Packages installed, but
             not associated with an explicit merge are listed as candidates
             for unmerging. WARNING: This can seriously affect your system by
             removing packages that may have been linked against, but due to
             changes in USE flags may no longer be part of the dep tree. Use
             caution when employing this feature.

     --info
             Displays important portage variables that will be exported to
             ebuild.sh when performing merges. This information is useful
             for bug reports and verification of settings. All settings in
             make.{conf,globals,defaults} and the environment show up if
             run with the '--verbose' flag.

     --inject (-i short option)
             Add a stub entry for a package so that Portage thinks that it's
             installed when it really isn't.  Handy if you roll your own
             packages.  Example:
             emerge --inject sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-2.4.19

     --metadata
             Causes portage to process all the metacache files as is normally done
             on the tail end of an rsync update using emerge --sync. The
             processing creates the cache database that portage uses for
             pre-parsed lookups of package data.

     --prune (-P short option)
             WARNING: This action can remove important packages!
             Removes all older versions of a package from your system.
             This action doesn't always verify the possible binary
             incompatibility between versions and can thus remove essential
             dependencies from your system.
             The argument format is the same as for the --clean action.

     --regen
             Causes portage to check and update the dependency cache of all
             ebuilds in the portage tree. This is not recommended for rsync
             users as rsync updates the cache using server-side caches.
             Rsync users should simply 'emerge --sync' to regenerate.

     --search (-s short option)
             searches for matches of the supplied string in the current local
             portage tree. The search string is a regular expression.
             A few examples:
             emerge search '^kde'
                 list all packages starting with kde
             emerge search 'gcc$'
                 list all packages ending with gcc
             emerge search '' or
             emerge search '.*'
                 list all available packages

     --unmerge (-C short option)
             WARNING: This action can remove important packages!
             Removes all matching packages without checking for outdated
             versions, effectively removing a package completely from
             your system. Specify arguments using the dependency specification
             format described in the --clean action above.

Options:
     --ask (-a short option)
             before performing the merge, display what ebuilds and tbz2s will
             be installed, in the same format as when using --pretend; then
             ask whether to continue with the merge or abort. Using --ask is
             more efficient than using --pretend and then executing the same
             command without --pretend, as dependencies will only need to be
             calculated once.

     --buildpkg (-b short option)
             tell emerge to build binary packages for all ebuilds processed
             (in addition to actually merging the packages.  Useful for
             maintainers or if you administrate multiple Gentoo Linux
             systems (build once, emerge tbz2s everywhere).

     --buildpkgonly (-B short option)
             Creates a binary package, but does not merge it to the
             system. This has the restriction that unsatisfied dependencies
             must not exist for the desired package as they cannot be used if
             they do not exist on the system.

     --changelog (-l short option)
             When pretending, also display the ChangeLog entries for packages
             that will be upgraded.

     --columns
             Display the pretend output in a tabular form. Versions are
             aligned vertically.

     --debug (-d short option)
             Tell emerge to run the ebuild command in --debug mode. In this
             mode, the bash build environment will run with the -x option,
             causing it to output verbose debug information print to stdout.
             --debug is great for finding bash syntax errors as providing
             very verbose information about the dependency and build process.

     --deep (-D short option)
             When used in conjunction with --update, this flag forces emerge
             to consider the entire dependency tree of packages, instead of
             checking only the immediate dependencies of the packages.  As an
             example, this catches updates in libraries that are not directly
             listed in the dependencies of a package.

     --emptytree (-e short option)
             Virtually tweaks the tree of installed packages to only contain
             libc, this is great to use together with --pretend. This makes
             it possible for developers to get a complete overview of the
             complete dependency tree of a certain package.

     --fetchonly (-f short option)
             Instead of doing any package building, just perform fetches for
             all packages (main package as well as all dependencies.) When
             used in combination with --pretend all the SRC_URIs will be
             displayed multiple mirrors per line, one line per file.

     --fetch-all-uri
             Instead of doing any package building, just perform fetches for
             all packages (main package as well as all dependencies.), grabbing
             all possible files.
             When used in combination with --pretend all the SRC_URIs will be
             displayed multiple mirrors per line, one line per file.

     --getbinpkg (-g short option)
             Using the server and location defined in PORTAGE_BINHOST, portage
             will download the information from each binary file there and it
             will use that information to help build the dependency list. This
             option implies '-k'. (Use -gK for binary-only merging.)

     --getbinpkgonly (-G short option)
             This option is identical to -g, as above, except it will not use
             ANY information from the local machine. All binaries will be
             downloaded from the remote server without consulting packages
             existing in the packages directory.

     --newuse
             Tells emerge to include installed packages where USE flags have
             changed since installation.

     --noconfmem
             Portage keeps track of files that have been placed into
             CONFIG_PROTECT directories, and normally it will not merge the
             same file more than once, as that would become annoying. This
             can lead to problems when the user wants the file in the case
             of accidental deletion. With this option, files will always be
             merged to the live fs instead of silently dropped.

     --nodeps (-O short option)
             Merge specified packages, but don't merge any dependencies.
             Note that the build may fail if deps aren't satisfied.

     --noreplace (-n short option)
             Skip the packages specified on the command-line that have
             already been installed.  Without this option, any packages,
             ebuilds, or deps you specify on the command-line *will* cause
             Portage to remerge the package, even if it is already installed.
             Note that Portage won't remerge dependencies by default.

     --nospinner
             Disables the spinner regardless of terminal type.

     --oneshot
             Emerge as normal, but don't add packages to the world profile.
             This package will only be updated if it is depended upon by
             another package.

     --onlydeps (-o short option)
             Only merge (or pretend to merge) the dependencies of the
             specified packages, not the packages themselves.

     --pretend (-p short option)
             instead of actually performing the merge, simply display what
             ebuilds and tbz2s *would* have been installed if --pretend
             weren't used.  Using --pretend is strongly recommended before
             installing an unfamiliar package.  In the printout, N = new,
             U = updating, R = replacing, F = fetch  restricted, B = blocked
             by an already installed package, D = possible downgrading.
             --verbose causes affecting use flags to be printed out
             accompanied by a '+' for enabled and a '-' for disabled flags.

     --quiet (-q short option)
             Effects vary, but the general outcome is a reduced or condensed
             output from portage's displays.

     --resume
             Resumes the last merge operation. Can be treated just like a
             regular merge as --pretend and other options work along side.
             'emerge --resume' only returns an error on failure. Nothing to
             do exits with a message and a success condition.

     --searchdesc (-S short option)
             Matches the search string against the description field as well
             the package's name. Take caution as the descriptions are also
             matched as regular expressions.
               emerge -S html
               emerge -S applet
               emerge -S 'perl.*module'

     --skipfirst
             This option is only valid in a resume situation. It removes the
             first package in the resume list so that a merge may continue in
             the presence of an uncorrectable or inconsequential error. This
             should only be used in cases where skipping the package will not
             result in failed dependencies.

     --tree (-t short option)
             Shows the dependency tree using indentation for dependencies.
             Only really useful in combination with --emptytree, --update
             or --deep.

     --update (-u short option)
             Updates packages to the best version available, which may not
             always be the highest version number due to masking for testing
             and development. This will also update direct dependencies which
             may not what you want. In general use this option only in combi-
             nation with the world or system target.

     --upgradeonly (-U short option)
             Updates packages, but excludes updates that would result in a
             lower version of the package being installed. SLOTs are
             considered at a basic level.
             WARNING: This option is deprecated and shouldn't be used anymore.
             Please use the /etc/portage/package.* files from now on.

     --usepkg (-k short option)
             Tell emerge to use binary packages (from $PKGDIR) if they are
             available, thus possibly avoiding some time-consuming compiles.
             This option is useful for CD installs; you can export
             PKGDIR=/mnt/cdrom/packages and then use this option to have
             emerge "pull" binary packages from the CD in order to satisfy
             dependencies.

     --usepkgonly (-K short option)
             Like --usepkg above, except this only allows the use of binary
             packages, and it will abort the emerge if the package is not
             available at the time of dependency calculation.

     --verbose (-v short option)
             Effects vary, but the general outcome is an increased or expanded
             display of content in portage's displays.

     --version (-V short option)
             Displays the currently installed version of portage along with
             other information useful for quick reference on a system. See
             emerge info for more advanced information.

 

Porthole is good but makes all those options unavailable.

 

Oh compaired to apt:

bash: apt: command not found
root@arora:/ # apt-get --help
apt 0.6.29 for linux i386 compiled on Dec 29 2004 02:07:09
Usage: apt-get [options] command
     apt-get [options] install|remove pkg1 [pkg2 ...]
     apt-get [options] source pkg1 [pkg2 ...]

apt-get is a simple command line interface for downloading and
installing packages. The most frequently used commands are update
and install.

Commands:
 update - Retrieve new lists of packages
 upgrade - Perform an upgrade
 install - Install new packages (pkg is libc6 not libc6.deb)
 remove - Remove packages
 source - Download source archives
 build-dep - Configure build-dependencies for source packages
 dist-upgrade - Distribution upgrade, see apt-get(8)
 dselect-upgrade - Follow dselect selections
 clean - Erase downloaded archive files
 autoclean - Erase old downloaded archive files
 check - Verify that there are no broken dependencies

Options:
 -h  This help text.
 -q  Loggable output - no progress indicator
 -qq No output except for errors
 -d  Download only - do NOT install or unpack archives
 -s  No-act. Perform ordering simulation
 -y  Assume Yes to all queries and do not prompt
 -f  Attempt to continue if the integrity check fails
 -m  Attempt to continue if archives are unlocatable
 -u  Show a list of upgraded packages as well
 -b  Build the source package after fetching it
 -V  Show verbose version numbers
 -c=? Read this configuration file
 -o=? Set an arbitary configuration option, eg -o dir::cache=/tmp
See the apt-get(8), sources.list(5) and apt.conf(5) manual
pages for more information and options.
                     This APT has Super Cow Powers.

 

Apt is cool but Im a tweak freak.

 

[ac_dispatcher]

By the way did you prelink?

 

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/prelink-howto.xml

[a13x]

Nope. AFAIK prelinking makes files larger and more memory hungry but also faster. When I'll get myself more RAM and a larger hd I'll prelink.

[bvc]

I just leave the PC on in the night. First, it downloads everything needed, than it starts compiling. The next day I check for errors and resolve them. This is how I do all my massive downloading, upgrading etc.

Don't listen to all these whiners about the time it takes to compile - type emerge -u world, go to bed, and when you wake up your system is up to date. Wow, what an inconvenience, eh? And waiting a few minutes longer for a new program is so worth it. They can't find anything wrong with Gentoo, so they resort to whining about compile times. Pfff. (Not stabbing at anyone or being serious, relax

actually yes, it is a major inconvenience...I can't afford a new cpu or motherboard every year (like people I know have had to do)....burn baby burn...that cpu I found a lot wrong with gentoo, in fact the entire concept is bad and useless especially for the experienced. Optimization is no excuse as next to nothing is gained on faster machines and I was spending more time fixing crap in gentoo than I did in LFS ;)

 

Well I had a friend who used Gentoo as his first distro ever and had no problems installing it. Really, all you have to do is follow the instructions carefully. It might be time consuming, but it's certainly not difficult.

 

Debian is a great distro as well (they all are, depending on what you want to do) - Debian is IMO, also more _difficult_ to install than Gentoo.

I know people who's first distro was slack....not much help available there. Debian is one of the easiest distros to install. Just because there's no gui/mouse (windozer's clickity_clicky) and one has to use a keyboard it's difficult? I've never understood this. The questions are the same, generally, for all distros. Any distro w/o a gui/mouse installer is considered difficult.

 

Your friend was comfortable with computers, technology etc but most people aren't like that. He's a natural probably wink.gif. I believe it is better to take it easy (for most people). First install an easy to use distro like Mandrake. Learn the basics, then go for something harder like Gentoo.

Gentoo is not hard, or even harder. It's just a diff set of commands is all. You do not learn anything in any distro that can not be learned in any other distro. Linux is linux. What you learn is distro specific commands. That's learning a distro....not learning linux. You want to learn linux? Install LFS or run a bare bones red-hat server....cli only ;) Mandrake doesn't teach you the basics....it teaches you rpm and lets you clickity_click like a windozer. Nothing wrong with that of course. If you learned linux in mandrake, you learned. But you learn linux, regardless of the distro, if you so choose. The distro has nothing to do with it.

 

Talk about Ubuntu, I'll never use a distro that is optimized for i386 - a waste of CPU power in my case at least.

there as much a diff in a binary 386 to a compiled, so called optimized 686 as a 586 to a compiled, so called optimized 686.

 

Misconception: geeks, technoheads use gentoo

truth is, the geeks and technoheads are using debian unstable and rawhide or fedora ;)

any time spent in the linux community will show anyone that

wannabe geeks and technoheads (scriptkiddies) use gentoo (!generally speaking!) ...makes them feel like something they are not.

 

apt compiles from source, and for any opt you want ;)

apt and urpmi do not need to be ran more than one occurance as they take care of all in one command ;)

 

debian/ubuntu out of date? show me your pkg versions and I'll show you mine ;) ...oh, and I haven't updated in over a month :lol:

Edited January 16, 2005 by bvc

[a13x]

I feel a distro war coming on ...... :lol:

 

actually yes, it is a major inconvenience...I can't afford a new cpu or motherboard every year (like people I know have had to do)....burn baby burn...that cpu 18.gif I found a lot wrong with gentoo, in fact the entire concept is bad and useless especially for the experienced. Optimization is no excuse as next to nothing is gained on faster machines and I was spending more time fixing crap in gentoo than I did in LFS wink.gif

 

What is there to fix ? I just followed the install instructions and it works. No hacking, no head aches.

 

I know people who's first distro was slack....not much help available there. Debian is one of the easiest distros to install. Just because there's no gui/mouse (windozer's clickity_clicky) and one has to use a keyboard it's difficult? I've never understood this. The questions are the same, generally, for all distros. Any distro w/o a gui/mouse installer is considered difficult.

 

Agreed.

 

Gentoo is not hard, or even harder. It's just a diff set of commands is all. You do not learn anything in any distro that can not be learned in any other distro. Linux is linux. What you learn is distro specific commands. That's learning a distro....not learning linux. You want to learn linux? Install LFS or run a bare bones red-hat server....cli only wink.gif Mandrake doesn't teach you the basics....it teaches you rpm and lets you clickity_click like a windozer. Nothing wrong with that of course. If you learned linux in mandrake, you learned. But you learn linux, regardless of the distro, if you so choose. The distro has nothing to do with it.

 

It is harder. Everyone (well, almost) can install Mandrake but many have this "fear of the CLI" that prevents them from doing Gentoo install. It's true you can learn Linux from every distro but Gentoo forces you to learn while Mandrake offers a comfortable Windows-like environment. The majority of Windows users don't know much about computers and stuff because of this 'ease of use'. They don't realize what 'happens behind the scenes'. In Gentoo you don't have all those nice GUI configuration tools that do the dirty work. So these are 2 big reasons why Gentoo is considered hard.

 

wannabe geeks and technoheads (scriptkiddies) use gentoo (!generally speaking!) ...makes them feel like something they are not.

 

Not my case ... and I don't believe this. You are saying that Gentoo users are ignorants and snobs. Having a working Gentoo on your PC makes you proud for a short time because you know you have achieved something more difficult than the others, that's all.

 

debian/ubuntu out of date? show me your pkg versions and I'll show you mine wink.gif ...oh, and I haven't updated in over a month

 

I'm talking about the stable versions of the distros not the devel ones. AFAIK Debian stable uses old packages while Gentoo stable (and others) have more recent ones.

[arthur]

erk, gentoo bashing in progress...

 

/me breathes deeply

 

i'm not gonna bite ;)

[bvc]

Gentoo is not hard, or even harder. It's just a diff set of commands is all. You do not learn anything in any distro that can not be learned in any other distro. Linux is linux. What you learn is distro specific commands. That's learning a distro....not learning linux. You want to learn linux? Install LFS or run a bare bones red-hat server....cli only wink.gif Mandrake doesn't teach you the basics....it teaches you rpm and lets you clickity_click like a windozer. Nothing wrong with that of course. If you learned linux in mandrake, you learned. But you learn linux, regardless of the distro, if you so choose. The distro has nothing to do with it.

 

It is harder. Everyone (well, almost) can install Mandrake but many have this "fear of the CLI" that prevents them from doing Gentoo install. It's true you can learn Linux from every distro but Gentoo forces you to learn while Mandrake offers a comfortable Windows-like environment. The majority of Windows users don't know much about computers and stuff because of this 'ease of use'. They don't realize what 'happens behind the scenes'. In Gentoo you don't have all those nice GUI configuration tools that do the dirty work. So these are 2 big reasons why Gentoo is considered hard.

 

wannabe geeks and technoheads (scriptkiddies) use gentoo (!generally speaking!) ...makes them feel like something they are not.

 

Not my case ... and I don't believe this. You are saying that Gentoo users are ignorants and snobs. Having a working Gentoo on your PC makes you proud for a short time because you know you have achieved something more difficult than the others, that's all.

 

debian/ubuntu out of date? show me your pkg versions and I'll show you mine wink.gif ...oh, and I haven't updated in over a month

 

I'm talking about the stable versions of the distros not the devel ones. AFAIK Debian stable uses old packages while Gentoo stable (and others) have more recent ones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it is not harder to read a few docs and thus a few commands. If people have not the strength to learn linux in mandrake and need a gentoo to force them to learn cli, well that's rediculous. Seriously. It is. That tells me they really do not want to learn.

 

All that has been accomplished is the reading of a few docs and robotically typing a few commands...there's nothing to be proud of. Wanna feel proud install LFS but even that is a matter of copy/paste and reading the docs. The diff is that you actually learn what it all means. You learn linux. Though you c/p you have to read it all and make sure not one character is missing and all syntax is correct.

 

Most that run debian do not run stable. That's lame. Unstable is the choice of deb users. It is the main so that is was should be compared ;)

Edited January 16, 2005 by bvc

[SoulSe]

I just leave the PC on in the night. First, it downloads everything needed, than it starts compiling. The next day I check for errors and resolve them. This is how I do all my massive downloading, upgrading etc.

Don't listen to all these whiners about the time it takes to compile - type emerge -u world, go to bed, and when you wake up your system is up to date. Wow, what an inconvenience, eh? And waiting a few minutes longer for a new program is so worth it. They can't find anything wrong with Gentoo, so they resort to whining about compile times. Pfff. (Not stabbing at anyone or being serious, relax

actually yes, it is a major inconvenience...I can't afford a new cpu or motherboard every year (like people I know have had to do)....burn baby burn...that cpu I found a lot wrong with gentoo, in fact the entire concept is bad and useless especially for the experienced. Optimization is no excuse as next to nothing is gained on faster machines and I was spending more time fixing crap in gentoo than I did in LFS

 

Well I had a friend who used Gentoo as his first distro ever and had no problems installing it. Really, all you have to do is follow the instructions carefully. It might be time consuming, but it's certainly not difficult.

 

Debian is a great distro as well (they all are, depending on what you want to do) - Debian is IMO, also more _difficult_ to install than Gentoo.

I know people who's first distro was slack....not much help available there. Debian is one of the easiest distros to install. Just because there's no gui/mouse (windozer's clickity_clicky) and one has to use a keyboard it's difficult? I've never understood this. The questions are the same, generally, for all distros. Any distro w/o a gui/mouse installer is considered difficult.

 

Your friend was comfortable with computers, technology etc but most people aren't like that. He's a natural probably wink.gif. I believe it is better to take it easy (for most people). First install an easy to use distro like Mandrake. Learn the basics, then go for something harder like Gentoo.

Gentoo is not hard, or even harder. It's just a diff set of commands is all. You do not learn anything in any distro that can not be learned in any other distro. Linux is linux. What you learn is distro specific commands. That's learning a distro....not learning linux. You want to learn linux? Install LFS or run a bare bones red-hat server....cli only Mandrake doesn't teach you the basics....it teaches you rpm and lets you clickity_click like a windozer. Nothing wrong with that of course. If you learned linux in mandrake, you learned. But you learn linux, regardless of the distro, if you so choose. The distro has nothing to do with it.

 

Talk about Ubuntu, I'll never use a distro that is optimized for i386 - a waste of CPU power in my case at least.

there as much a diff in a binary 386 to a compiled, so called optimized 686 as a 586 to a compiled, so called optimized 686.

 

Misconception: geeks, technoheads use gentoo

truth is, the geeks and technoheads are using debian unstable and rawhide or fedora ;)

any time spent in the linux community will show anyone that

wannabe geeks and technoheads (scriptkiddies) use gentoo (!generally speaking!) ...makes them feel like something they are not.

 

apt compiles from source, and for any opt you want ;)

apt and urpmi do not need to be ran more than one occurance as they take care of all in one command ;)

 

debian/ubuntu out of date? show me your pkg versions and I'll show you mine ;) ...oh, and I haven't updated in over a month :lol:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^^ Linux snob right there.

 

And how can you presume to speak for every geek alive? Your words: "truth is, the geeks and technoheads are using debian unstable and rawhide or fedora ;)" Bullcrap! Paul will out-geek anyone I know and he uses Gentoo (sorry to drag you into this Paul :P ). My friend Ian who owns a local ISP uses Slackware... I could provide you with more examples.

 

Serious geeks using Fedora? Maybe one or two.

 

Not that I'm a serious geek, I've just found the distro that works for me and it's called Gentoo. Labelling me (and all the other Gentoo users on this board) a "wanna-be" geek is not fair though. In fact it's snobby and infantile.

 

Oh, and your story about burning out CPUs is screwy. That's like saying I shouldn't drive my new Ferrari too fast in case I burn it out. Gimme a break...

 

I do agree with most of the rest of your points though

 

I know how we can settle this dispute:

[bvc]

I just leave the PC on in the night. First, it downloads everything needed, than it starts compiling. The next day I check for errors and resolve them. This is how I do all my massive downloading, upgrading etc.

Don't listen to all these whiners about the time it takes to compile - type emerge -u world, go to bed, and when you wake up your system is up to date. Wow, what an inconvenience, eh? And waiting a few minutes longer for a new program is so worth it. They can't find anything wrong with Gentoo, so they resort to whining about compile times. Pfff. (Not stabbing at anyone or being serious, relax

actually yes, it is a major inconvenience...I can't afford a new cpu or motherboard every year (like people I know have had to do)....burn baby burn...that cpu I found a lot wrong with gentoo, in fact the entire concept is bad and useless especially for the experienced. Optimization is no excuse as next to nothing is gained on faster machines and I was spending more time fixing crap in gentoo than I did in LFS

 

Well I had a friend who used Gentoo as his first distro ever and had no problems installing it. Really, all you have to do is follow the instructions carefully. It might be time consuming, but it's certainly not difficult.

 

Debian is a great distro as well (they all are, depending on what you want to do) - Debian is IMO, also more _difficult_ to install than Gentoo.

I know people who's first distro was slack....not much help available there. Debian is one of the easiest distros to install. Just because there's no gui/mouse (windozer's clickity_clicky) and one has to use a keyboard it's difficult? I've never understood this. The questions are the same, generally, for all distros. Any distro w/o a gui/mouse installer is considered difficult.

 

Your friend was comfortable with computers, technology etc but most people aren't like that. He's a natural probably wink.gif. I believe it is better to take it easy (for most people). First install an easy to use distro like Mandrake. Learn the basics, then go for something harder like Gentoo.

Gentoo is not hard, or even harder. It's just a diff set of commands is all. You do not learn anything in any distro that can not be learned in any other distro. Linux is linux. What you learn is distro specific commands. That's learning a distro....not learning linux. You want to learn linux? Install LFS or run a bare bones red-hat server....cli only Mandrake doesn't teach you the basics....it teaches you rpm and lets you clickity_click like a windozer. Nothing wrong with that of course. If you learned linux in mandrake, you learned. But you learn linux, regardless of the distro, if you so choose. The distro has nothing to do with it.

 

Talk about Ubuntu, I'll never use a distro that is optimized for i386 - a waste of CPU power in my case at least.

there as much a diff in a binary 386 to a compiled, so called optimized 686 as a 586 to a compiled, so called optimized 686.

 

Misconception: geeks, technoheads use gentoo

truth is, the geeks and technoheads are using debian unstable and rawhide or fedora ;)

any time spent in the linux community will show anyone that

wannabe geeks and technoheads (scriptkiddies) use gentoo (!generally speaking!) ...makes them feel like something they are not.

 

apt compiles from source, and for any opt you want ;)

apt and urpmi do not need to be ran more than one occurance as they take care of all in one command ;)

 

debian/ubuntu out of date? show me your pkg versions and I'll show you mine ;) ...oh, and I haven't updated in over a month

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^^ Linux snob right there.

 

And how can you presume to speak for every geek alive? Your words: "truth is, the geeks and technoheads are using debian unstable and rawhide or fedora ;)" Bullcrap! Paul will out-geek anyone I know and he uses Gentoo (sorry to drag you into this Paul :P ). My friend Ian who owns a local ISP uses Slackware... I could provide you with more examples.

 

Serious geeks using Fedora? Maybe one or two.

 

Not that I'm a serious geek, I've just found the distro that works for me and it's called Gentoo. Labelling me (and all the other Gentoo users on this board) a "wanna-be" geek is not fair though. In fact it's snobby and infantile.

 

Oh, and your story about burning out CPUs is screwy. That's like saying I shouldn't drive my new Ferrari too fast in case I burn it out. Gimme a break...

 

I do agree with most of the rest of your points though

 

I know how we can settle this dispute:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I called no one snobs as you have <mod breaking board guidelines> I inserted the

"(!generally speaking!)"

but this is only ok for you to do and no one else?

who's the snob here and the one acting infantile?

 

Did I say all geeks use anything? No I did not. I did say most though but you obviously can not read. Mentioning a few examples means nothing as I'm sure we all know a geek for every distro. Pointless.

 

again people twist and turn what is said to what they want because of a distro they use? grow up already!

 

and yes...if you drive that Ferrari as it was made to be driven you will have more problems. You aren't really going to deny that are you? You have proven my point tank_u

keep your eye open for the cpu sales!...unless you are one that has $ to burn with that cpu

 

I'm all for a beer and laying this down though!

 

gulp, gulp

bye

Edited January 16, 2005 by bvc

[SoulSe]

I'm shocked!

 

That really doesn't warrant a reply.

 

I'm off to upgrade my Gentoo. ;)

[Guest anon]

General comment.

*Sigh*

[a13x]

it is not harder to read a few docs and thus a few commands. If people have not the strength to learn linux in mandrake and need a gentoo to force them to learn cli, well that's rediculous. Seriously. It is. That tells me they really do not want to learn.

 

All that has been accomplished is the reading of a few docs and robotically typing a few commands...there's nothing to be proud of. Wanna feel proud install LFS but even that is a matter of copy/paste and reading the docs. The diff is that you actually learn what it all means. You learn linux. Though you c/p you have to read it all and make sure not one character is missing and all syntax is correct.

 

Most that run debian do not run stable. That's lame. Unstable is the choice of deb users. It is the main so that is was should be compared wink.gif

 

This post has been edited by bvc: Today, 08:18 PM

 

Not all people have that ambition to learn. They need more stimulus. Our own nature tells us to pick the easy way to resolve a problem that is by using GUI tools. That's one of the reasons why winblows dominates the OS market. Would you learn C++ right now ? You know it would do you good because you could write programs but you need more stimulus than just will.

 

The Gentoo handbook also makes you understand what those commands do so it contributes to your linux knowledge.

 

and yes...if you drive that Ferrari as it was made to be driven you will have more problems. You aren't really going to deny that are you? You have proven my point tank_u

 

A CPU with good cooling should resist to heavy usage.

 

I'm off to upgrade my Gentoo. wink.gif

 

Good idea. I'm going to do something productive myself.

Edited January 16, 2005 by a13x

[jlc]

/me wonders if I'm one of the "one or two" Soulse was talking about using Fedora, of course when I think about all the Developers that work for RH/NSA/<company here> that run/work/develops on Fedora, there has to be more than me and some other dude, cause I don't work for RH/NSA and pretty sure it takes more than one guy to crank everything out............ :P

 

Maybe not, I guess I'm just joe average since Fedora is so un-ubber 3llit3 and was created for noobies by noobies.

 

We all know the RH folks have no idea what there doing with Linux, look at that thing they call RHEL? Enterprise, why not just run gentoo in the enterprise, it's so cool and greate. What, Fedora is the test bed and main push for NSA's SELinux, SELinux, that sounds like a fad and will go away soon..........

 

Thats it, I'm dumping RH/Fedora and moving on to something that actually uses stuff that the "real Linux'" uses, you know these ubber sweet distros like gentoo and such. For real, what can I learn on Fedora, it only has Linux stuff, isn't there more to Linux than a distro with Linux stuff that uses Linux stuff and you could possibly install other Linux stuff from what I've heard, but I'm to affraid to break out of the norm and just use my noobie box for playing mp3s and surfing the web...........

 

:unsure:

[bvc]

i knew that was coming....

...just didn't know what was taking you so long to show up