phunni Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Again !!! Didn't we already told them NOT to patent software ? Didn't they said ok ? Why do I have the impression that as soon as we turn back they try to f**k us ? hey we have something else to do than checking them, demonstrate, sign petitions ! don't they fear that next time we'll them ? yes - let's start a revolution! Behead all the european powers that want to drown us in software patents! Actually - some kind of drastic step needs to be taken in protest. Obviously I was joking about revolution, but we need to do something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Lets guillutine them all.... Oh Wait its patented.... erm. suggestions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clevedonal Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 I'm not against the European ordinary folks - but i'll be finding myself an Anti-Euro candidate in the forthcoming election (june in the UK i believe) I am simply fed-up with faceless beaurocrats in Brussels living it up on MY money, making PITA decisions about me. I'd much rather have (british) faceless beaurocrats doing that - at least i can abuse them when the come a'canvassin' at my door, and in a language they'll understand. The software patents item is yet another example... (hey i like a rant as much as the next guy!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 I'm not against the European ordinary folks - but i'll be finding myself an Anti-Euro candidate in the forthcoming election (june in the UK i believe) I am simply fed-up with faceless beaurocrats in Brussels living it up on MY money, making PITA decisions about me. I'd much rather have (british) faceless beaurocrats doing that - at least i can abuse them when the come a'canvassin' at my door, and in a language they'll understand. The software patents item is yet another example... (hey i like a rant as much as the next guy!) talk about EEC ? Well on the principle it has some good. On software patent, EEC is clearly the right level to decide about that. Do you imagine for example England saying no to software patent and the rest of Europe saying yes ? impossible. There is some issue where Europe is the only organization we have, potentially strong enough to take decisions. Anyway, I don't appreciate that a member, Ireland, who was given the temporary responsibility to lead us, is starting to play his own game in a way different with what was decided before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted May 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 I am simply fed-up with faceless beaurocrats in Brussels living it up on MY money, making PITA decisions about me. I'd much rather have (british) faceless beaurocrats doing that - at least i can abuse them when the come a'canvassin' at my door, and in a language they'll understand. I'm afraid it's the British faceless bureaucrats and the British government who are the villains (along with other national governments); and the MEPs who come canvassing may well be innocent. The European Parliament amended the proposals to get rid of the worst elements. EU ambassadors, ie British and other national bureaucrats, removed the amendments on instructions from their governments. The Council of Ministers, including British ministers, are expected to rubber-stamp the old proposals on Monday. To overturn the proposals, the EP has to get more than 50% of MEPs to vote against - not just a majority of members voting. This is not expected to happen. We British are kept in the dark as far as Europe is concerned, so the government of the day can blame 'Brussels bureaucrats' for just about everything. Democracy in the EU is represented, however inperfectly, by the Parliament. The Council of Ministers continues to make decisions in secret, so they can return home and blame everybody else (the Commission, the Parliament and other member states) for what happens... [continued on page 94] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 (edited) Lets guillutine them all.... Oh Wait its patented.... erm. suggestions ? Don't worrie, it's probably in the public domain now. You'll not be charged for using it. Just check there is the CE mark in it. Else it does not had been certified 98/37/CE and it's a potentially dangerous machine. Edited May 16, 2004 by roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 iphutisActually - some kind of drastic step needs to be taken in protest. Obviously I was joking about revolution, but we need to do something... How about voting in the next european election spinynormanWe British are kept in the dark as far as Europe is concerned, so the government of the day can blame 'Brussels bureaucrats' for just about everything. Democracy in the EU is represented, however inperfectly, by the Parliament. The Council of Ministers continues to make decisions in secret, so they can return home and blame everybody else (the Commission, the Parliament and other member states) for what happens... [continued on page 94] Very true, the constitution would go a long way to curbing the power of the faceless bureaucrats. Cheer up though some recent proposals are likely to wreck our financial services industry, maybe the realisation that not being involved is more detrimental might wake them up a bit and get some of our institutions thinking when they realise the choice is have an influence or have none at all and still have to put up with decisions made in europe. clevedonal I'd much rather have (british) faceless beaurocrats doing that - at least i can abuse them when the come a'canvassin' at my door, and in a language they'll understand. don't know if you've noticed but bureaucrats aren't elected they are appointed by the people you are supposed to elect to act on your behalf. We trade mainly with europe, if we are not in the eec you can kiss goodbye to all the foreign investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Thats very interesting.... What ?? Well we are discussing the viability of the EU/EEC The real question is WHATis the EU ? I remember when it all started (although I was very young) Decimalisation etc. however it started off as a trading union. The UK made a choice between commonwealth and EU. Now its turning into a social system which noone ever voted on. I expect corruption.. its a government.... However I agree with gmac that its our own governments hiding this from us. Like anna's post said Europe can be very different, N-S and E-W just like every country in it can be. Its good to keep differences but regions still maintain their nationalities over centuaries anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitor Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 (edited) The EU has, like all else, good and bad things. Anyone not liking the bad things should not be fighting the EU as a whole (that is a negative attitude), but try to enforce the good things (like the little democratic elements it does have) and fight the bad ones (like the software patent stuff). Then you have a positive attitude and maybe help achieve some improvements to the world we live in. Just my humble point of view. Ciao, Sitor Edited May 17, 2004 by sitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 I remember when it all started (although I was very young)Decimalisation etc. however it started off as a trading union. The UK made a choice between commonwealth and EU. Now its turning into a social system which noone ever voted on. I expect corruption.. its a government.... However I agree with gmac that its our own governments hiding this from us. Like anna's post said Europe can be very different, N-S and E-W just like every country in it can be. Its good to keep differences but regions still maintain their nationalities over centuaries anyway. Smaller nations have done very well out of the EEC (I live in one except our fisheries were sold as a bribe to get in but that's hardly relevant) There are a lot of vested interests that don't want europe to succeed and would take great delight in being able to play one state off against another. This is just one such issue. What they can't do head on they are trying to do by the back door. The best defence against companies like microsoft is a strong EU that can tell them to get stuffed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Unfortunately it now appears that they have bought the Irish presidency. It amazes me that they are so unashamed to actually advertise Microsoft as providing special help??? Its been obvious who was driving the software side from the beginning and I find it disturbing that theres nothing that cant be bought off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulSe Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Oh for god's sake! Won't you all just come and live with me in South Africa already... Drunken Safari-lans! Cheap Beer! World Cup! w00t! do it! now! NOW! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 I replaced my name and emails..... otherwise as sent ! Dear Sir, Many thanks for the return of your email. Unfortunately your colleage Arlene McCarthy does not appear to be interested in any counter arguaments. Indeed, she has declined to answer the email. As this continues it would appear that democratic process is being reversed and that the COREPER comittee is ignoring previous limits. Unfortunately this matter is not one of swings in policy, it is a one way street which cannot, once granted be realistically revoked. This has in cases led to the branding of anyone against this as paranoid or 'fringe' however, convenient though this may be to ignore those against software patentability it is not the case. It is no secret that Microsoft sponsor the Irish Presidency and have certain interests in this matter, indeed the Irish Presidency's website shows this. I would urge you to take your own sources of information for this. I know of several software firms in your constituency or neighbouring ones whom could give you independent advice of why software constituents cannot be patented like a engineering process without stifling innovation. Indeed the strongest arguament against this move is that is being swept in when the world and European political situation is in a state of flux and behind closed doors. Yours Faithfully Gowator Gary Titley MEP <contact@gary-titley-mep.new.labour.org.uk> wrote: Dear Gowator Thank you for your e-mail on the proposed Software Directive. I note you have also sent the message to my colleague Arlene McCarthy who is the Labour Member dealing with this matter for the Group. No doubt she will be in touch with you directly. Yours sincerely Gary Titley MEP ----- Original Message ----- From: Gowator To: arlene.mccarthy@easynet.co.uk Cc: contact@gary-titley-mep.new.labour.org.uk Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 3:10 PM Subject: The Proposal for a Directive on the Patentability of Computer-Implemented Inventions Ms. McCarthy, I contact you as the MEP foremost representative of this propsal and Mr. Titely as my MEP. I would like to say from the outset that although I do not support the proposal in its current form I am not against protecting British or European inventions from outside the EU. I am currently in Paris however my home is in Clitheroe, Lancs. My family hold several patents in Engineering and I therefore appreciate the importance of patents to both individuals, SME's and large corporations. I am also a Information system specialist, currently technical advisor in this field to a very large oil company. Given my location, this hardly needs spelling out. However; Computer Implementation does not proceed at the same rate as either Engineering, pharmacuticals or any other industry. As you correctly point out several patents (it looks more like several thousand to me) have already been granted by tthe EU patent office which are contrary to the current guidlines. It is my opinion that these most first be dealt with before changing the present laws. Each patent in this area should be re-examined and those contravening current laws suspended in order for any bill to achieve credibility. The rushing through; in a public sense of this proposal is not in the interests of European software development. Rather the bodies and representatives concerned should be consulted. Several prominent well respected industry analysts have expressed their concern. In particular John C. Dvorak, the holded of the patent for the Dvorak keyboard. In short, computer implementations are not clear analogues of engineering or other patents. My professional experience, like those of several industry analysts is drawn from explaining at a high level why Information Science is the way it is and why traditional business cycles and obolecense cannot be applied in a competitive environment. It may be that we would all be better off freezing technology and slowing its development and that is a case I am willing to consider however it is a case where projects like the human genome project and serious medical research would loose out. It is then a very weighty matter. Passing a proposal which may freeze or certainly inhibit the rate of development as a byproduct is no more viable than the current situaiton. Your web page specifically mentions that the Amazon 'one-click-shop' would not be patentable in Europe under the current guidlines. Hence we still have a large gap betwen US and Europe. Neither do I see any proposal on how to handle the patents already granted in Europe which certainly seem outside of the current rules. Your example concerns one patent which has already been refused by the EU patent office; whatabout the ones which were accepted? A very quick look shows me EP0689133 (ADOBE SYSTEMS INC (US) ) or EP0747840 (IBM (US)). Nor do you address any concerns of the prominent economists in their letter to the EU parliament of the 25th August. If the current reaction can be seen as excessive or inaccurate; what you refer to as lies in your webpage this is due to the small amount of preparation time in which companies and individuals have had to react. The overwhelming response from the professional IT press has been against the present proposals. By this I am referring to IT press targeted at professionals, not fringe groups or extremeists and at both sides of the Atlantic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted May 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 This is the full text of a story at The Register (my highlights): The European Council of Ministers will meet tomorrow afternoon to decide the fate of the EU Directive on software patentability, but instead of merely waving the directive through, there is to be a more thorough discussion of the issue. The directive is the penultimate item on the agenda, which means that at least one member state has changed its position and is willing to stick its political neck out to get further debate, according to lobbyists at the FFII (Foundation for a Free Information Infrastructure). Last week, the Council declared consensus, and the directive was tabled as "A point" to be voted through without any further discussion. However, at a press conference at the European Parliament last week, ministers confirmed that the consensus on the issue was breaking up, and acknowledeged the need for more debate. Germany, Belgium and Luxemborg are known to be unhappy with the revised draft, but the FFII says there has been a lot of activity in France, too. A spokesman for the organisation noted that the combined votes of France and Germany (20) would make a siginificant contribution to the 26 needed to block the draft in its current form. If the Council can reach an agreement tomorrow, the text will be finalised and will be put on the agenda to be passed without further ado at a subsequent Council meeting. If not, it will be referred back to Parliament for a second reading. Although no new amendments may be proposed in a second reading, those originally proposed by Parliament can be re-introduced. In September 2003, the Parliament made significant amendments to the original proposal. It defined a very strict set of circumstances under which software patents could be granted, and of the kinds of software that could be patented. Passing them is difficult, however, as it requires a majority vote from all MEPs, not just those in attendance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 finger crossed. According to Mandraksoft Flash link it's tomorrow ! They say it's not too late, I hope it's true. Anyway I've sent a e-mail of all the MPs of the area where I live with a copy of the nice MandrakeSoft text. almost all the french important politicians said they they are against patent on software. How could they let it go now ? :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.