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Steve Scrimpshire

My Thoughts About Converting People

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I find people complain here when something doesn't look the way they want, but hey you might be right.

 

Sound, I don't know in Linux I can crank it up enough to here it perfectly out on the street so I'm not quite sure I need it louder??

 

DVD play back, ok might be illegal, not sure why you can buy software in the store and play it on win & mac and I can't play it on lin so I guess I'm breaking the law. :oops:

 

Browser pluggins, I seem to have everything working that I need, maybe i'm missing something but mozilla works better than ie has ever worked for me. Yes, I even use it in this windows workstation at "work" that I am typeing from right now.

 

 

None of it matters, is Linux ready for the desktop? Works on my box better than anything else, so imho YES.

 

 

If it dosen't fit your needs and you see win better in just about every category, by all means go for it.

 

I just get sick of hearing what I thought were die-hard linux users bash it and say how much better the wincrap is in all these category's. You know what, go use windows and quite complaining. If you want to complain than get off your @$$ and start developing and make it fit your needs.

 

Is this a touchy subject for me, YES it is, as you know I'm a Linux fan boy, what ever. Just don't use it and complain all the time, go back to windows, mac, solaris, hp-ux, beos, bsd or whatever fits your fancy. Just so sick of Linux aint ready for the desktop, well than why are you using it? Is it on your desktop or all those screenshots by evreyone their servers? Wow, fancy server waisting a lot of resources too ;-)

 

 

Anyway, end of rant. Boy that feels good. :lol2:

 

 

Fire away, you know I love all of you so keep it gentle........

Edited by cybrjackle

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I second everything cybrjackle has said.

 

if you think linux isn't ready for the desktop, then get it off your desktop, or start doing something to make it ready.

 

sound better in win? hm, son, you done lost it... 2 sound cards, 3 linux distros and windows and it all sounded exactly the same. and believe me, i can hear differences in sound very, very easily. maybe you should try out a new sound card...i've used both soundblaster live! 5.1 and soundblaster audigy with no noticeable difference.

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Browser pluggins, I seem to have everything working that I need, maybe i'm missing something but mozilla works better than ie has ever worked for me. Yes, I even use it in this windows workstation at "work" that I am typeing from right now.
who said anything about ie? ;)

 

Touchy, touchy :lol:

 

Truth hurts, huh? I'm not the one living in a dream world. Don't wanna hear it, stop reading now, but don't tell me to shut up.

 

Develop? Ha Ha....you know, if you are so die hard you develop, you could do a lot if not for installing something different everyday on 3 machines. All that free time at work?, heh, that's more than I have on my own personal time. Must be nice. You devel.

 

What? gotta open those windows to hear it from the street? Besides, that doesn't mean it sounded good :lol:

 

The whole question of linux being ready for anything is a joke. Don't try to put your own condemnation on me. I've never thought it was and don't think desktops will near as common when it does finally make it. Sure there will always be desktops, but you'll be able to mantle and dismantle any given component and any given time, put it in your pocket and take it with ya. Not exactly desktops as we know it, huh? That is what linux needs to prep for if it wants a chance at the so called 'desktop', the future. If it's always 3 years behind, it will lose. That's the way the desktop cookie is gonna crumble, like it or not. I do think linux can do it, which is one of the reasons I use it, but mainly because in the end, I DO think linux will at least come out on top of M$. Well, that's if M$ stays M$ as we know it and linux remains the linux we know. I do not think either will though. There will be a common ground answer that will take over both. Yes, that's my prophecy, if you will ;)

 

This thread, being about converting/gaming specifically, puts us way OT huh? Funny how people are willing to allow that because of the current discussion and in thinking they can shoot bvc down.

 

 

sound better in win? hm, son, you done lost it... 2 sound cards, 3 linux distros and windows and it all sounded exactly the same. and believe me, i can hear differences in sound very, very easily. maybe you should try out a new sound card...i've used both soundblaster live! 5.1 and soundblaster audigy with no noticeable difference.
k, BOY...I was in recording studios and writing music b4 you were even born. You have proved my point, thank you. Hey everyone!!! Linux is ready for your desktop IF you get a sb live or audigy :cheeky: ....Sorry, but you walked rt into that tyme. Slam! I have an sb btw. :lol: ...just don't use it :screwy:

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Well before I got into computers and when I was a "kid", I had a $4000 audio system in my car and I played 5 insturments in band (yes i was band nerd too) so I do know what good audio sounds like, just cause I wasn't in a rock band or in a studio mixing tracks doesn't mean I know nothing about good clean audio. Thank you very much. And yes, from the road with the windows closed I can hear the music perfectly. ;-)

 

I've been pretty good about sticking with Fedora too :P

 

I'm not sure what truth hurts, I'm simply saying that windows SUCKS, does that hurt you? I'm only playing with you, I could careless if you use Linux or not. For me, it handles everthing I throw at it.

 

 

So SHUT UP!

 

:cheeky:

 

 

Just kidding bro!

 

 

Mods should change my title to "Linux Zealot" :jester:

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***inflammatory post deleted by poster*****

 

I'll just say, as a musician who's also learning how to do multitrack audio recording with his computer (and other expensive toys.....:D), Linux (at least Mandrake) is more than ready for my desktop. But I understand it's not quite ready for some people. My dad, for example, probably the only thing keeping him on Windows right now is Access databases he needs to access for work. (And, as a side note, after researching a bit, I'm believing Lindows or Xandros would be a better choice for him than Mandrake, just simply because there are enough things that don't quite work right that would concern me about showing someone else how to use it) The next time Dad and I talk about this, I'll probably ask if he'll settle for just running Access on Crossover Office at least until mdbtools matures enough to where it can safely write to Access databases as well. But, for the time being, both of us have better things to do with our lives (I've got a musical to play piano for, as well as solo/ensemble contests to accompany on piano for).

 

Anyway, I'll shut up now.

Edited by emh

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I personally think Linux being behind is a good thing. M$ used to be good...then it got big...got an ego the size of the galaxy, and now it's earned the title microshaft. I fear that this may happen to Linux too, should it get that big...as long as it's gotta be good to be used, it will be good...the minute it becomes the dominant OS, all that crashes like windoze XP.

It can't run the games? Good. Keep the gamers off it. Let them deal with the crashing...If you try to make Linux run all those games, all the capabilites of windoze, then it will also inherit all the crashing of windoze.

IMHO, what keeps linux good is that it's a low system stress, very bare, clean, OS...not what people want...people want an OS that does EVERYTHING for them...linux does that, linux gets cluttered...and then it crashes.

Edited by Urza9814

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Since the thread is converting people then everyone is a little right and a little wrong becuase it depends on converting which person.

 

Linux isn't ready for the MAINSTREAM desktop for many reasons but its more than ready in lots of areas.

 

Games are important to some and then it depends which game.

I tried America's army a short while ago from a cover CD, it didn't work straight away so I binned it becuase if I wanna play a game I can just stick one in my console.....and its not a big deal....

 

I spent a week trying to get my new server finished...however since I enjoy this its no big deal...

 

SO basically its all down to individuals and most can't be bothered to spend the extra time... it either works or not!!!

 

Not everyone is interested in the why's... mostly we ohn this board are but its no good thinking everyone is like us. Linux needs more market share in order for better drivers to be developed and HW manaufacturers to sit up and take notice. This means we need more people ....

So better not to tell em just to go back to windows...

In fact its better they stick with Windows till the part that concernws them is mature enough... be it office (which is really there IMHO) games (lacking) or whatevever.

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Urza9814,

NOFI, but I practically disagree with everything you said in your post..

 

Being no1 has put MS in the position to not having to worry about product quality.

Competition with linux has them worried now, so they focus on stability (which is quite nice with winxp, esp compared to win9x ) and of late on security (hmm, with the internet about over 30 years old, they are finally thinking in the right direction).

 

Linux on the other hand, doesn't get developed by a (single) company, and therefor has no lax programmers/managers who will fill their pockets whatever.

The goal of FLOSS programmers is in most cases to create something the best way they can. So even if linux / FLOSS gets ahead (in many respects they already are) of MSWindows, this doesn't mean that it will get crappy. With more momentum, it will only get better. More momentum, more developers (since more interest), etcetc.

 

This is the good part about FLOSS, and this is the true reason that eventually, all mainstream software functions will have FLOSS implementations that beat all others.

Example of today (as it has been for many years): the linux kernel, apache.

 

In some other cases, competition with MS has really pushed development (samba), but this is rare.

 

Games on linux will not create bluescreens, the only thing that crashes a linux machine (except for a well constructed malicious program) is a bad driver.

Games will only crash themselves, no matter how many games come to linux, they will not make linux less stable. The contrary is true: they will improve linux.

 

Linux (as an OS) can do all that windows does, hands down, and then some, hands down, and still have time for a drink on the side, without crashing.

 

The reason why it is nice to get more games on linux is to get more users and so more momentum which will lead to more programs and supported hardware.

And we all know that we want that:

1- go into shop

2- pick type of hardware (not all is for linux, but for every function linux hardware will be available, with the penguin on the box)

3- go home

4- install linux software that comes with the hardware (apps, maybe drivers in case they aren't already there)

5- enjoy new functionality

 

For gamers this should look like this:

1- go into shop

2- pickup game of choice

3- (less than 5 click) install

4- enjoy new game

 

How do we get there? Well, more users. This is really all there is to it.

Luckily, some 1 billion Chinese are on their way to increase our numbers, and then some Indians. Don't know about games, but in 2 years, hardware support issues will be quite different from today.

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ahhh...right...forgot about the whole theory of linux and GPL and stuff for a minute there...

still though...more people working on it, more junk thrown in to 'make life easier'...no matter how stable the OS is, if it gets too junked up, the comp will crash...it's just a question of if it'll be hardware or software problems.

 

Competition with linux has them worried now, so they focus on stability (which is quite nice with winxp, esp compared to win9x )

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! :lol2:

win XP sucks! Here's my list of OSs:

1. Linux :thumbs:

2. Win 9x

3. DOS

4. NONE

5. Mac

6. Win XP

 

Win XP is the WORST OS in existance! I've got games that have worked on every version since NT...and they don't work on XP...I have yet to install a game or hardware that doesn't need a patch. My digital cameras don't work at all. My printer does not work at all...we had to buy a new printer simply because of XP. I have yet to have 'compatability mode' work for anything. I've got a keyboard and mouse that won't work either! Every time I put a floppy in that comp it says it's corrupted. Not to mention the fact that it's ugly as hell. I found that many probs with winXP...with win98...uh...none that I know of.

 

Sorry for that rant...but I have nothing but pure hatred for winXP...THAT is why I hate microshaft...which is why I got Linux.

Edited by Urza9814

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still though...more people working on it, more junk thrown in to 'make life easier'...no matter how stable the OS is, if it gets too junked up, the comp will crash...it's just a question of if it'll be hardware or software problems.

Ehmm, nope. Put any software you can get for linux, install, and see if you can crash it. Go ahead, it is quite easy to load Mandrake up with 5 to 8 GB of software, some of which not ready for the indicator 'alpha' quality software (let's face it, there's plenty of that in FLOSS land too).

Then see if it crashes your machine. It shouldn't. Linux, the kernel, is stable by design. More or less the only way to make it falter is to

1- use bad drivers (there is a reason they make it spit out the message: the kernel is now tainted, whenever you load a closed source driver)

2- fill up the root partition

 

You can laugh about windows, but without too much crap, I haven't had a win2k crash since they got me a new machine at work (on which, quite without permission, I'm quite likely to install mdk10 sometime soon... :D ), and xp should be similar.

 

There though, it is very true, likely due to (de)installers messing things up, registry rot (windows in contrast to linux, is broken by design..) with loads of programs the computing experience, in time, leaves loads to be desired. Most people just buy a new pc, and are astonished at the greater speed... only partially due to the new/faster hardware, the other part being due to winxp being freshly installed...

 

Again, on linux this doesn't happen, since there is no registry.

Sure, with rpm --force or --nodeps you can destroy a system, just as with rm -rf / but that is beside the case. Good management with linux will reward you with a well functioning box, no matter how many crappy programs you have installed. Good management with windows will reward you with a longer time between full system installs (ghost flashbacks), and here good management mostly means: know what things NOT to (de)install...

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I don't mean installing too much junk...I mean too much junk running in the BG...I've had linux crash because I've had too much running...a terminal, mozilla, and AIM...and it crashed...Now, I am quite low on RAM, but still...people want an OS that does everything for them...if linux does that, it'll have too much running in the BG, and it will crash. If I CTRL-ALT-DEL everything, I can keep a windows system running for months at a time, with no problems. It's just the mass of everything going at once that makes it crash so easily.

Edited by Urza9814

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Not quite urza, its the fact that a lot of direct hardware calls are made.

If you overload linux it will just keep crunching away....

The only time I ever have crashes is BAD DRIVERS.

Because its the job of the driver to communicate with the hardware.

 

Windows deals directly with hardware, in particular the graphics card. Programs like direct X use this and this makes the graphics crash, and since the graphics driver has crashed and its built into the kernel, the kernel crashes.

 

There are lots of good OS,s, whats wrong with OS-X ???

I see you prefer to have no computer than a mac, yet its a nice UNIX based OS. Just alittle too point and click for me!!!

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I'm only talking about what I personally see in my life. I see a lot of people that I could easily convert to Linux if Game A (which just came out) worked in Linux or Game B, which they've had for a while, worked in Linux.

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Win2000 is better than WinXP, much better. Trust MS to screw things up when they merged the NT and 95/98/Me product lines. XP has more holes than swiss cheese. They make perfect zombies.

 

Yeah, overloading the system won't crash linux. If it appears unresponsive, just get a cup of coffee, come back and it'll be finished. Then go buy more ram. Your ram type should be quite cheap anyway.

 

And Windows runs installed programs in the BG often without asking your permission, but Linux is modular and only root can do everything, and give permission to everything. :lol:

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If you overload linux it will just keep crunching away....
If it appears unresponsive, just get a cup of coffee, come back and it'll be finished.

First of all..I don't drink coffee...it's nasty :-P

Secondly, windoze is usually the same way...ppl just don't wait that long...give it 10-20 minutes, and it'll come back.

I see you prefer to have no computer than a mac

Yep! I used a mac once in a store, because the guy had never even seen the camera I wanted, but they apparently had some, so I had to look it up on their site...when I walked away I was dizzy and stuff...it was weird...and the mouse only had one button! I need AT LEAST 4! I usually use the mouse for 8 things in first person games...and I'm considering looking in all directions one thing...not that that would matter, since the only games for mac are, like, breakout...I swear...Linux has more games than that POS. I have a friend who has a mac...only 1 CD drive...no burner...didn't even come with a word processor...he has to go to his grandparents house to type stuff...

Edited by Urza9814

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