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Steve Scrimpshire

My Thoughts About Converting People

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I'm not surprised :D

I suppose one day I should try too if I want to be a linux guy too ;)

So all you need is a registar and a connection.

So what prevent you from firing W.. (no names) right now ?

I have to find something on topic .. a yes: isn't advice people to have there own name on a independent registar like gandi so they can fire there isp easily if it's not correct with Linux a good thing ?



Edited by roland

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"Main thing is probably do yourself a favour and pay for a ethernet DSL modem..... USB and networking .. I dunno its like not right!!!"


Currently I have a cable connection that works fine with mandrake-once i worked out what i was doing.


Its the broadband connection. I have BT and telewest phonelines, there are several ISP's I can use on the back of the bT line but telewest do a better phone package than BT and I was going to ditch them and the ordinary cable connection is cheaper. Other ISP's offer broadband connection but on the back of a BT line. I could use them but my phone bill goes up. I'm not aberse to upgrading my computer I just don't want to do it just now. I can live without broadband a little longer till I decide what I am going to do. Right now I'm skint.

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Ok, overall, I think we have decided (besides the OT posts) that the main thing Linux is lacking for the home desktop is MS-Word compatible office tools and games. Right?


Is the main consensus that, as far as games go, there's no sense trying to get companies to provide Linux native games and to support WineX? Somehow that doesn't seem right.

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Hmmm I honestly dont know Steve.

Perhaps if more companies stop making word a standard we dont need to.

Besides it could soon be illegal to 'decrypt' word docs.



Games, I really dunno....

I guess it depends on individuals, I can go months without playing one but now I have a console I play quite a bit, I just can't be bothered with the effort (being honest) under linux cos I have more important things.


I think for me, mail server/web server is important but I scored quite high in that geek test :D

However for the masses these are not important...at least they dont want to put effort in.


Too many people say things like noobies just have to learn but the reality is they might be capable but they aren't interested. They just wanna stick in a CD.


Now Windows starts off (from a non tech perspective) working...

It then slowly stops working until you have to reinstall... thats life, isn't that everyone.


Linux starts off by not working and after struggling with drivers etc. you eventually end up with something nice if you haven't previously given up and gone back to Win.

Then it gets better. becuase everything is reusable it grows

Presently it only 'needs' reinstalling for an upgrade...


So there you have it, the Windows user needs top reinstall becuase its runnning like treacle and the BSOD is your friend.

Linux shouldnt, but you need to (certain distros need is closer than others)


So the wonBlows user BUYS a newer WinBlows since they have to reinstall anyway.


So, not a direct answer,

Games, need to be in with the Cd and play.... either wineX works that well or its not interesting for the others....

I once had a 2 day LAN party with quake...

After 2 days I was still playing about trying to get my graphics driver really working (on my laptop) which is how it turned into a 2 day party!!!

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Ok, overall, I think we have decided (besides the OT posts) that the main thing Linux is lacking for the home desktop is MS-Word compatible office tools and games. Right?


Is the main consensus that, as far as games go, there's no sense trying to get companies to provide Linux native games and to support WineX? Somehow that doesn't seem right.



Ehm, not completely.

At least, there is no consensus on that last part... I think we must get those people on board who don't really depend on the games they may have on windows, and educate people about getting linux games.

It seems to me the true path for linux games is

1) a long one from where we are today

2) being walked by some people already

including me. I bought more linux games than for any other platform...

It seems that Linux Game Publishing is actually doing quite well.

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I hope im not repeating anything....but.


WineX isnt hard to find. Just google. And there is CVS.


I use WineX CVS and as the school puts sooooo much trash and monitoring software on these computers many games do not work in windows. I *have* to use Linux. And I aint dual bootin two windows.


Anyway, more and more games are released on linux natively and Linux is shaping up as a great gaming platform. Lets not forget the Linux is very new in the world of operating systems -- Even I am older than linux is by many years. Though not as tall :P


Linux is advancing at a faster rate than windex, but has a long way to go still. Companies are slowly realising Linux and things are increasing. A bit over a year or two ago, hardware vendors rarely uttered linux and only a few made a handfull of drivers. Most now make drivers and even here, i am seeing advertisements "Supports Windows, Linux and Apple" Even some really cheap USB thumbdrive I have supports it and advertises it. Works better in linux than windows too!!


The amount of games that are native are increasing, and I believe - no, i predict - that soon there will be a deluge of more for Linux. Hardware & Software.


We have IBM, Sun and Novell on our side. They are big players.


I believe that Novell will release Netware and Groupwise clients for linux in the near future. This would be a boost for linux in many schools and offices where Novell Netware is used.


Most vendors are slowly supporting linux even if the drivers come out well after the WIndex ones.


Its just a matter of time and patience.

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We have IBM, Sun and Novell on our side. They are big players.


Yep but not in Games!!!! :devil:


Its really simple,

You and me like to learn and mess about and most people don't.


Me I enjoy setting up a mail server and stuff, honestly I think I spend more time and enjoy setting things up more than I use them...


I just added wireless routing to my server - fundamentally to give me Internet radio in the bedroom on my laptop .... bah - no I just did it cos i could!!!


I put linux on my XBOX cos i could etc. etc.


But most people are more interested in playing the game than fixing the installer.

I spent 3-4 hours last night compiling a whole load of cartography software....


and its STILL not working....


That is the apps are compiled and installed but the seperate Tk interface isn't ....

I had to rewrite half the scripts myself .... because they use ksh instead of sh...


etc. etc.


Most people just wouldn't persist....

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Linux aleady has the windows compatable office suites. The games are a distraction the real future money is in small to medium businesses that will grow in to large companies and that at the moment use desktops. Get them off the windows habit and you are halfway there. Once you get beyond basic word processing and spreadsheets microsoft is not competitive pricewise or any otherwise the problem is people do not realise there is an alternative and buy the name they know.


You see it in PC world, star office next to MS professional, one is £60 thereabouts the other £450. Despite the fact SO is actually better value nobody has heard of it or ability office and they want to be sure they are buying a good product so they go for the name they know. This may seem daft but for a small business the devil you know is better than taking the risk of screwing things up. Computing is not their business and very few will spend any time experimenting.


They also accept computers crashing as par for the course. personally I find it intensely irritating and like to be able to fix things myself that's why I started experimenting with linux, for the simple reason that if my computer fails it costs me a lot of money waiting to get it fixed.


The best analogy is perhaps cars. I know how a car works, given a manual and the time and inclination i can fix most things myself. I don't want to its not my hobby so I'll pay someone who fixes it in a fraction of the time. On the other hand I can spot a bullshitting mechanic a mile away because I know the basics. Its the same with computers, I get to know the basics decide what I want and then find somebody who I can depend on to help me set up small servers etc, I don't have the time or inclination to acquire that level of knowledge myself.


But I can spot a bullshitter, commemts like microsoft is the standard, linux is a combination of windows and unix, linux is just a version of windows tend to be offputting.


If you want to convert people there needs to be a network of support for business and that means people on the ground offering back up support not just to large businesses but to small as well. Forget phone support, how many small to medium busineesses do younthink have an IT guy? Every tom, dick or harry does windows, very few do linux. Maybe there isn't enough money in it?

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I think the issue with the SOHO market is the fact that SO and OO are only 99% compatible.

People just dont wanna take a risk, especially when sending a document to a client in a requested format.


Its often just a bit of formatting and nothing that Officexx to Officeyy wouldn't screw either...


Maybe there isn't enough money in it?

the real problem is getitng enough small businesses to make it worthwhile.

If you have support then you need to know businesses are paying for insurance and one person can cover 100 SOHO businesses. Of course you then need cross cover so that when something does go wrong in 1 of the hundred the engineer who's out repairing it can leave his cleints in safe hands with another engineer.


So lets say a small 5 man support company would need 500 clients to be viable.


Do the math....

Lets say they get paid £20,000 each per annum

Tax+ins+overheads doubles that so thats 200k per annum


200k per annum is £400 per annum support divided into 500 companies

so we might say perhaps 200 might be break even all paying 1000 per year....

Course this assumes the engineers will work and be happy with 20k pa


Juggle the money round and its quite difficult to come up with a realistic fee that enough businesses would pay for.

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Why five man? I know two individuals set up on their own. One builds computers and sells on refurbishes laptops form home. I will buy a lap top from him and probably get him to build my next computer. Not least because he was smart enough to become one of my clients. The other I met when he was working part time as a student doing computer installations with a larger local company. He is now off on his own doing the same thing for small businesses, home server installations etc picking up regular work. Linux makes it easy for him because he can use the internet for support SUSE enthusiast as it happens. Lots of repeat business once you make the point that the level of service is good people tend to stick with you. Same with the guy building computers, not much margin but lots of repeat business and the chance to build in added value.


I too work from home. part of a larger company but in a service industry. I am paying for an office and service that I no longer need and they do not get the point about scanning technology or the internet and are actually becoming a handicap. They still sit and phone up companies and wait twenty minutes in a queue in a call centre. I go online and get the information I want in about two minutes. I don't need to travel 23 miles to an office to use second rate computers. People e-mail me I need someone to answer calls and take messages but I have to deal with the queries anyway. Technology means i no longer need space for filing cabinets etc so why should I pay for it. They can spend the same and have quicker access to files and not pay for space to store the information. I should be able to go online to a central server to access information from where ever I am but I work with people that don't get it. So ultimately I will leave, earn the same but make more profit without the hassle. There are five guys in the office likely to do the same thats five people interested in I support on a local face to face level.


There are a lot of business in the same position. There are a lot of businesses now starting that need technology run by people that are open to new ideas. They do not necessarily want expensive IT support but will pay a resonable fee to someone they feel they can trust.


So to repeat my question. Why five man, why not one or two. People seem to think you have to build up a large company to be successful. You don't, all you need is make enough for what you want. Success is when you achieve what you decided you wanted to achieve, not what someone tells you it is.

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gmac, I obviuosly gave this some thought :D


2 people isn't enough with the best will in the world one can be ill or on vacation and then who's going to cover while the only guy makes an urgent site visit.


So you can do home OR pay-per-visit BUT not offer a proper 8.5hours a day 365 service.


Real problems do occur both hardware and user mistakes....

and like you say these aren't always resolvable over the phone.


Don't get me wrong I wish every luck to these guys...my brother also has one for his business but its not proper professional support.


But its interesting....

What do you require.... if you loose a day or a week how critical is it?

(you can always use the phone :D and pen and paper and work the old fashioned way)


When you think about it if you require same-day service you need some sorta contract. Anyway, what are you willing to pay (round figures) per annum, lets say 4 people and 20k p.a. is OK, so how many contracts would that take.


I had some friends who were doing conversion in the UK from windows to linux in a weekend. (servers only then thin clients)

They had quite a few customers willing to pay a lot for a weekends work and they were also willing to pay quite a lot for support....

trouble was they couldn't get enough support to achive critical mass.

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I think you all smoke crack! :D


I play a lot of games on Linux.


My sound system is better than my truck.


My DVD's play perfect and much much better than they play in windows.


I've been using OOO at work too and sending other people doc's and they haven't complained at all.


Security? Not even worth talking about.


Tweaking, Control, free beer?



Games, yeah, windows has more. I have an X-Box. Also, I've played a lot of the new games on windows and you will never take my enemy-territory away from me. (if you try, i'll shove a knife in your back or a panzer up your but).. To me the game play graphics and everything else about "et" has been better than COD/1942/MOH, you name the world war games and I still love ET more. Oh yeah, Free too like as in Free Beer.


So for all you Linux bashing windows is better here and there.


You can grab your pipe and keep smoking your crack, I'll have no part in it.






Yes, Linux Rocks :headbang:


Windows SUCKS :devil:




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I bet you just don't tell em its from OO. That way they just accept any tables and stuff that get reformatted since it would be the same if you were using Office97 and they have 2k or something.


The problem is when people know they are always looking for problems.....



The main problem is DVD playback CAN work great.....

BUT its involves those extra steps..... oh and its illegal.

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Oh, shame on me :woops:


I forgot to mention the multimedia in browsers gives you much more control, stability, and overall more versatility and better quality.....just downright better in win :lol:


As I said on irc #musb concerning sound. People in general haven't a clue what good sound is. Sorry. If I can crank my sound twice as high in win with twice the quality than in lin, then you tell me which is better. Two machines and 3 soundcards have been like this, and guess what?.....I don't have to do a thing for it to be that way. My wife says I'm cursed. I have a eq in my head, can hear an entire symphany and turn up and down any instrument I want while still hearing the others. It is frustrating. I started playing guitar at age 8 and the 24 track recording studios have spoiled me.


Security? You're rt. Not worth talking about. Way overrated. Big $ in scarring and deceiving the masses don't ya know.


Gowator said it. If they d/k what it's suppose to look like, how could they complain?

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