I was a pessimist - WRONG!

[melon2003]

I tried to install Linux at Internet Club few year ago. I was disaster :( Almost none of my guest in Club liked it, some people would rather wait for another computer than use linux-box.

After few years I decided to give a second chance to Linux Mandrake at public place. I big surprize, it works! :D

So many things has changed during those years, linux looks better and works much smoother. I already run Mandrake on my private laptop for a long time, so I KNOW all it's good sides but - again - I was very sceptic about how people would react on 'somethnig different that my stolen windows at home'.

EVEN COMPLETE NEWBIES USE IT WITH A PLEASURE. The only trick (which is advantage after all) is that has to be preconfigured first by a 'pro' (that is - me;) ).

 

This makes me feel really great, at last I can do something for Linux - for so long it has been doing good work for me. Maybe this will convince some more people that there's a lot better operating system than winblows! One of my employee is shocked how nice it looks and how great it works :)

Let's hope one day I'll install great Linux distribution as Mandrake is on most (if not all).

Now I'll continue to trying how well Linux behave with my guest and how well they are feeling using Linux - I'll give it, say a month - then I'm finally going to 'join the club' and pay some money to Mandrake guys. It's worthy, a last it's worthy!

[sitor]

Good going! Keep us informed on what the reactions are and whether you will go further with the experiment.

 

Ciao,

 

Sitor

[Darkelve]

Actually, this 'trick' is exactly what Mandrake tries to do in their 'discovery' edition:

http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/92/discovery

 

I am quite intrigued by the possibilities for Linux in e.g. Cybercafés and such. Your hardware will stay expensive, but the OS costs virtually nothing and the cost gains through ease of administration, avoidance of worms and viruses, no licenses to perpetually renew, ... (not to mention free software) could give you a real competitive advantage in such an environment IMHO.

 

Anyway, nice job!

Edited December 11, 2003 by Darkelve

[melon2003]

The 'experiment' brings just more positive conclusions so far.

After few day we have some customers that DEMAND to use our LinuxBox.

I'm actually shocked with that fact :D

I'm aware of disadvantages: poor compatibility with windows software some people would like to download and try, some 'modern' sites with 'only windows' services (most of them are microsoft;) BUT I was afraid that this would come out just from beginning - and this was a mistake - so far so good - no one complained about it. Great!

 

So - for poor windows compatibility win4lin would be a cure, for 'sophisticated plugins' there's some winex software. I would cost a little bit more - if someone would REALLY need it - I probably buy it. It still would be way cheaper and - what's more important (Darkelve mentioned it) - administration and control over software is much, much - but really much better.

I still have most of computers with windows (98,xp) and believe me - there's no other solution than refreshing WHOLE SYSTEM PARTIOTION, few times a week.

[melon2003]

Interesting fact about complete newbies.

People come to Internet Club for few reasons. One of them may be fact, that they don't know much about computers but they want to improve they knowledge (sometimes from level zero ;) )

This kind of people is most open for 'experimental Linux Box'. Once they experience flexibility of 'eyecandy' kde desktop - they seem to be unhappy if their favorite computer is occupied by someone else.

Complete newbies are Linux friends.

 

Some of not very advanced users are disappointed with newest ms product. It's not so stable as producer claims. I try to convince they to try much more stable Linux box. Most of them want to check if it's really better. And after few questions they realize that it really is :) If they have questions - most of them comes from loggical mistakes in 'non pure kde' applications (like "how save page on floppy, or desktop?" in opera or mozilla).

Generally - most of disappointed windows users are Linux friends.

 

Advanced users like computer science students or businessmen - only if they like to experience something new - they give a chance to Linux. Some of them are so much used to look'n'feel from windows, that they don't really want to switch to another operating system. But again - most of them are disappointed with stability, flexibility and secure problems in ms product - they just want to try something different.

Our LinuxBox is meant to be well configured - with multimedia, burning cd, office, 3D acceleration software and so on... - so right from first contact even experienced users have possibility to try rather advanced software.

If advanced user is open to new technologies and ideas - almost surely he/she will became Linux friends in half an hour :)

 

There are also people which are using console and beggin' for admin password ;) Those are Linux friends for some time I guess ;)

[scoopy]

Interesting project (and observations) indeed. Might be time to set up another Linux box there. Keep us posted.

 

What country is this in melon2003?

 

As for those MS type sites, I believe most will work if you change the browser's ID to report is as a windows type. Maybe you could set up Konq for this purpose?

[Darkelve]

I think Mozilla (in my opinion, firebird although Moz would be a good choice too) would be better.

 

Reason for this is that web developers did, and still largely do, only test for 2 browsers: Internet Explorer and netscape.

 

Since Mozilla is using Netscapes codebase, it will be far less likely to have the html, javascript or css of a website break.

 

Better safe than sorry I'd say.

 

Darkelve

[melon2003]

At first I've picked Opera to put shortcut on the kde desktop (in place where winusers look for ie). Opera by default identifies itself as ms ie, most of java, flash ie. pages opens and runs properly. BUT few days later I decide to show the freedom of choice to our fresh Linux users - so I've put also shortcuts to Mozilla (which is good at least for reasons Darkelve mentioned) and Konqueror (it behaves as almost perfect kde programm letting easily find desktop and devices).

 

Scoopy, thank for advice - that should make Konqueror even more compatible with modern pages. Btw. its compatibility is not bad - seems to work with most java applets, shows flash properly (except sound is delayed like in other browsers). Sometimes Konqueror has problems with new opened window size and it show all content in ONE line. (?) All you have to do is resize window a little bit ...

 

Scoopy: country is Poland, it's perfect timing for showing Linux to audience here - as we attempt to join Europe (like we earlier weren't there?) some smart guys from ms SPONSOR police antipirate actions. So they go even to private houses to check if one have original winblows. Almost none of my friends (and their friends) can't (don't want?) afford windows. If they're not using Linux - they start to look around for alternatives. Good for us, good work ms ! :D

[aRTee]

Very interesting news indeed.

 

Have you thought about selling Mandrake download edition cd's for the equivalent of the price of the discs multiplied by 2 or 3 for your effort?

Make sure they understand that installation and configuration is not necessarily trivial etc.

Also make sure they understand it is completely legal to make copies of this, and that they can pass them around, but that it's important to have this in the future that they in some way contribute (money or effort).

 

Then you could take part of the money you make and get a clubmembership from that (or even several).

 

Well, whatever you do, good luck!

[Darkelve]

melon2003,

 

please do not change the identification string to identify as MS Internet Exploiter!

 

Why not?

 

Reason for this is webdesigners and companies look at their log files to see which browsers are used and often take this as a basis to decide what to develop for (standards, I know, I know, but a lot of people still do it this way).

 

MS IE is used on our company site by 90% of the users (we get like 6000 a day). If you are going to identify as IE, this number will rise, maybe even give someone the crazy idea of developing for IE only! (Developer: "Hey, IE use is 95%, let's take the easy way and only develop for that, no one will notice or care..."). While in fact it may be "only" 90% or even lower.

 

Opera and Konqueror will only raise a few eyebrows, nothing more. Mozilla and Netscape will be taken much more seriously. I know this is not very fair, but we all know who to thank for this situation.

 

I say: offer them all, or a few, if you want, but forget about identifying as IE.

 

Darkelve

Edited December 18, 2003 by Darkelve

[melon2003]

Opera default settings is set to identify as IE (which - I agree - is wrong idea). Right now it's set to ID as Opera :) and seems still to work stable.

Can anyone actually GIVE EXAMPLES of pages which behave different when browser ID is set something else than IE?

At this moment I have general conclusion that there are two types of pages:

- one that works - sometimes with slight problems, sometimes only in one of three browsers we're talking about (Konqueror, Mozilla, Opera)

- one that don't work and probably won't work - no matter what browser, browser's ID or else is used. Most of them are lame on-line games (xpi applets?). If one want to play it - he/she switches to different (better) site offering same game or... switch computer. I'm not even sure if plugin emulation would work here (winex programmers have disigned some).

Showing proprer id may indeed give a happy idea to site designers to make things right. Amen.

[melon2003]

aRTee: kewl! :)

At this moment I have some people thinking about installing Linux as second operating system. They need help and they have asked me already to help installing.

Idea of distribute mdk cds is really fine, but eer.. vision of configuring - let's say - twenty computers is a bit frightening :)))

Still, I will consider that - maybe it's real chance to get some extra money? (and - yes - PAY MANDRAKE CLUB at last! :) :)

[Darkelve]

Well,

 

for Opera there is this Forum section:

 

http://my.opera.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=29

 

 

Those will give you at least a lot of websites that behave differently in Opera (mostly banking sites with 'advanced [uh-huh] log-ins, sites with plug-ins, shabbily designed sites, ...)

 

As for Mozilla I've no idea. You could try to check on their Forums to see of there's a similar thread. Although the problems should be quite similar to those you can find in the Opera Forums, only Mozilla will work more often with Javascript.

[roland]

Can anyone actually GIVE EXAMPLES of pages which behave different when browser ID is set something else than IE?

http://www.smcetech.com

 

roland

Edited December 18, 2003 by roland

[jgutty]

Regarding mickeysoft-only webpages, find a contact link that maybe the company (other than the brain-dead IT people) will see, and send an email that tells them that, unfortunately, you cannot participate in whatever they consider important because their IT people are, in fact, brain-dead. Give some details.

 

For example, the above SMC link should result in a bit of feedback to:

 

http://www.smcusa.com/sections/contactus/inquiry.asp

 

The potential methods to illuminate an idot often require an idiotic approach....revolutions are not easy to facilitate, but be determined none-the-less.