cannonfodder
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Post Posted: Wed May 22, 2002 8:33 pm Post subject: Defeating copy protected music CD's
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Interesting article this is on how to quickly defeat copy protection on music cd's....
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/industry/05/2...reut/index.html
I've posted this as the copy protection scheme prevents you from playing the CD on your computer. I'm not advocating CD ripping one way or another Razz
Last edited by cannonfodder on Thu May 23, 2002 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total
Dragonmere
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Post Posted: Wed May 22, 2002 10:45 pm Post subject:
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Reminds me of "greening" CDs. Remember that?
cannonfodder
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Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2002 2:01 am Post subject:
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Never heard of it. What is it?
thayne
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Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2002 2:24 am Post subject:
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I don't know why they bother. ANY security measure they impose will be cracked. They need to embrace the internet and MP3's or they can keep spinning their wheels and wasting money.
cannonfodder
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Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2002 2:33 am Post subject:
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thayne wrote:
I don't know why they bother. ANY security measure they impose will be cracked. They need to embrace the internet and MP3's or they can keep spinning their wheels and wasting money.
They are going a step further and trying to get hardware manufactorers to develop hard drives, monitors, whatever that prevent copy protection. They want to make it as hard as possible.
One one hand I understand they are losing lots of money due to copying. But on the other hand they are trying to stay with a business model that is behind the times. How many Cd's have you bought where you just like one song and you had to shell out megabucks for it?
huh
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Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2002 12:14 pm Post subject: protected cd's
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saw Leo LaPort (techtv) run a marking pen around the edge of a protected cd on one of his shows last week. got the impression that doing so would defeat the protection scheme, but not sure
I_NEED_HELP
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Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2002 2:47 pm Post subject:
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How are they going to stop someone putting a line from their stereo to the line in on their computer and copying them that way. Even if they do manage to make a cd unplayable on a computers drive i dont se ehow they will ever manage to stop people doing this. I think they are wasting their money trying to come up with copy protection schemes as they will always be an alternative way of doing things.
teòma
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Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2002 2:57 pm Post subject:
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cannonfodder wrote:
How many Cd's have you bought where you just like one song and you had to shell out megabucks for it?
Actually, I have bought all my CD's and I intend to buy more and a lot of these have been after hearing one song. But then I don't listen to the trendy 'pop' stuff that only has one good song on a CD. Those people are the ones that invented and use the MP3 format.
Unfortunately, even I have some CD's with this protection, which wouldn't be so bad if they would play on my portable CD-player, but no. One good thing about the music I listen to it that, people always want the CD's and pirates are frowned upon even more than usually, now if the few record companies that keep adding the pointless protection would understand that all would be good Smile
and the other thing you mentioned, about the hardware, that will never work, they will try, but it is destined to fail.
Sorry if I sound like I am ranting, but I really hate this development by some *coughsonycoughosmosecough* stupid companies.
Last edited by teòma on Thu May 23, 2002 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total
cannonfodder
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Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2002 2:58 pm Post subject:
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They are trying to make it so your computer components will not allow that by forcing legislation onto hardware manufactorers.
teòma
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Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2002 3:03 pm Post subject:
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cannonfodder wrote:
They are trying to make it so your computer components will not allow that by forcing legislation onto hardware manufactorers.
Yep and that will never work, the music business may have a lot of money behind it, but not as much as the hardware manufactorers, not to mention the legislation has so many stupidies in it, it's unbelievable. Forcing that legislation will never work, even if it goes thru.
Omar Serenity
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Post Posted: Fri May 24, 2002 12:28 am Post subject:
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The legislation has very many evil things in it that can be misinterpreted to affect more than they think.
thayne
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Post Posted: Fri May 24, 2002 2:39 am Post subject:
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I think they will loose more in the long run. I mean how many people only want to listen to music in their home stereo or car? I know if they make it so I cant listen to CD's on my PC or Mac, I won't be
buying any of them. Period.
cannonfodder
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Post Posted: Sun May 26, 2002 4:33 pm Post subject:
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Check this link out on slashdot
Quote:
Your Rights Online: Unique ID Codes for CD / DVD Manufacturers
Posted by timothy on Sunday May 26, @05:36AM
from the isn't-the-free-market-over-there dept.
terrymr writes: "The movie & recording industry are lobbying hard for the European Union to require all CDs & DVDs to carry unique source identifiers to aid in combatting piracy. They are also demanding tougher penalties for infringers. It seems the only people who would be hit by the ID code requirement would be the legitimate manufacturers as the pirates simply wouldn't bother."
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/...ode=flat&tid=97
DOlson
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Post Posted: Sun May 26, 2002 7:56 pm Post subject:
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Thanks alot Metallica!!!!!! You bunch of frickin' losers!
Just remember that it is because of pirates and underground trading and bootleggers that you guys ever even got big.
I don't blame Jason for leaving... He probably quit because you guys were suing EVERYONE you could... But you and he may never admit that.
You are like the Microsoft of the music industry. Where is the Linus Torvalds of the music industry?
Oh, this isn't the Metallica message board? Oh... Silly me...
AB2MS
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Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2002 3:33 am Post subject:
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cannonfodder wrote:
Never heard of it. What is it?
A few years back "greening" cd's was a popular myth.... people were led to believe that if you colored the data side of cd's with a green marker it improved the audio quality, buyt there isn't any affect either way..... but then again, people these days will believe anything Rolling Eyes
cannonfodder
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Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2002 3:39 am Post subject:
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AB2MS wrote:
cannonfodder wrote:
Never heard of it. What is it?
A few years back "greening" cd's was a popular myth.... people were led to believe that if you colored the data side of cd's with a green marker it improved the audio quality, buyt there isn't any affect either way..... but then again, people these days will believe anything Rolling Eyes
No kidding. One of those "The heavier you are, the faster you fall" myths huh?
teòma
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Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2002 1:06 pm Post subject:
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I think the funnies thing about this whole copyright protection thing is, that the end user, the one who actually buys the CD's, is the one who suffers.
You never heard the pirates complaining about a CD not working on the computer, why? Cos they have a way around it, which is another thing these people seem to fail understanding, if you can play it, you can copy it.
The only copy-safe CD is one you can't listen to.
DOlson
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Post Posted: Tue May 28, 2002 12:09 am Post subject:
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Quote:
The only copy-safe CD is one you can't listen to.
Bingo... There's the money shot.
These guys are all morons if you ask me.
I think the next step should be selling a human CD-guard with every CD purchased, which follows you around wherever you take the CD. That way, they can keep an eye on you and make sure you don't copy, lend, or publicly broadcast the CD.
That'd almost work too.
teòma
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Post Posted: Tue May 28, 2002 1:54 pm Post subject:
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Laughing That I would like to see.
Yeah, it is so unfortunate they are totally blinded by the money. Does anyone actually know how much it takes to produce a CD?
fat_larry
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 8:06 am Post subject:
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I_NEED_HELP wrote:
How are they going to stop someone putting a line from their stereo to the line in on their computer and copying them that way.
bad idea! digital->analogue->digital->compressed digital is always going to be a significantly lower quality than a direct digital->compressed digital transformation.
theYinYeti
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 9:17 am Post subject:
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thayne wrote:
I don't know why they bother. ANY security measure they impose will be cracked.
That's unfortunately not true. Hardware measures can be unbreakable, eg: some CD are flawed: small bits of it are voluntarily messed with, so that a standard CD player will use it's recovery mechanism (and we're supposed not to hear the difference Evil or Very Mad ), but a computer CD player will simply report a media error. Actually, the difference can be heard if you listen well. As a musician, I find this pure, unacceptable, horror.
I say "unfortunately" above because it is (IMO) a serious attack on fair use, for people like me and many others, that never crack any media (tape, CD, VCR-tape...). I feel this kind of laws and practices, as injustice. I resent a lot that USA help spreading such injustice, by allowing any such kind of liberty-impairing techinical and legislative moves.
And I call to everyone: stop piracy, please. You only encourage such laws, and "security measures"...
Yves.
DOlson
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 9:47 am Post subject:
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I hear ya, and I am trying to cut back on my MP3s. But just think of all the bands that you would never have started listening to if it weren't for MP3s... I know of dozens for myself.
And I have only begun purchasing their albums.
They have a lot of money coming their way in the not so distant future thanks to the MP3 file.
theYinYeti
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 9:48 am Post subject:
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cannonfodder wrote:
They are going a step further and trying to get hardware manufactorers to develop hard drives, monitors, whatever that prevent copy protection.
I_NEED_HELP wrote:
How are they going to stop someone putting a line from their stereo to the line in on their computer and copying them that way.
Simple: they will prevent the playing of those CD on any non-approved non-"enhanced" hardware. Ironically, I guess they'll have to "digitalize" all the way from the Cd player to the speakers so that all those parts are "security-enabled", and have a kind of protocol and "hand-shake" before encrypted data flows from part to part...
Yves.
DOlson
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 9:50 am Post subject:
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theYinYeti wrote:
Simple: they will prevent the playing of those CD on any non-approved non-"enhanced" hardware. Ironically, I guess they'll have to "digitalize" all the way from the Cd player to the speakers so that all those parts are "security-enabled", and have a kind of protocol and "hand-shake" before encrypted data flows from part to part...
Yves.
Ahh, but then you can always put a microphone up to the speaker. They can't start securing analog waveforms. It just won't happen.
theYinYeti
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:13 am Post subject:
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DOlson wrote:
you can always put a microphone up to the speaker. They can't start securing analog waveforms. It just won't happen.
That's true, but what they would be able to achieve is a law, so that any music-transfer-enabled device is compliant with the "security measure" as I said above, with encrypted digital data, and so that no device is able to record anything coming from an encrypted data connexion.
Then we'd have a situation where:
- you can record anything you want from a microphone (but no backup afterwards Sad )
- you cannot transfer the data anywhere, except all the way to the speakers.
Of course, you'd then be able to copy a song, but only after it has gone from digital form to analog form. Provided you have good material, and a record room, this is still better than MP3-like compression, but anyway, you'd not be able to play this on the computer.
All this could be worked around with pirated hardware, where data is decrypted in the IN plugs, but not encrypted again in the OUT plugs. But then, you'd be a pirate, and risking prison. There has to be a better future, and I think only governments can stop it from happening. It is their responsability.
Yves.
theYinYeti
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:30 am Post subject:
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DOlson wrote:
think of all the bands that you would never have started listening to if it weren't for MP3s.
Sure. MP3 are go.. Embarassed OGG are good Wink , not bad. But it is a different problem. If unknown authors choose to make exerpts (or even entire songs) available on Internet, that's OK, but if it is not their choice, you don't have the right to force them by making the music available yourself.
The music industry has to learn to use internet in a intelligent way. That is possible!
For now, it's too easy for them: they can arrange to make "unallowed" music available on internet (for the great pleasure of the listeners), and meanwhile complain that they have been robed of their music and money! That make me think of a certain M.......t company: "poor us, people have kept stealing us by making illegal copies of Windows", but they were in fact quite happy to see their product expand until what it is today. And now that they have a good market-share, they try to restrict as much as possible.
If you make illegal copies of authors' songs, you play their game! You help them, while letting them the right to complain!
Don't make MP3/OGG on your own. They'll have to learn that if they want to make a name, if they want to be known, they'll have to make the music available themselves, and not complain about it, nor risking their early listeners getting in prison.
Yves.
DOlson
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 6:53 pm Post subject:
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I will make OGG files or MP3 files on my own whenever I want to. Just because I do this, doesn't mean that I am going to distribute them on the internet.
I have many many CDs, and I don't think that I should HAVE to switch them if I want to hear particular songs from particular CDs from particular bands in a particular order. I can easily fit 10 albums onto one CDR, which means that I have a much more enjoyable time listening to music.
I think that the music industry is stupid, just as Microsoft is stupid. They are shooting themselves in the head, only they haven't got good aim... They haven't dealt a death blow yet, and that is unfortunate. I wish they'd quit pretending to commit suicide and just get it over with.
Glitz
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 4:46 am Post subject:
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Not quite. The hardware/software has no way to determine if an analog signal is copyrighted by the user or not. And since users must be able to record from a microphone and do whatever they want with material that they have the copyright for, then the hardware has no choice but to assume the analog signal copyright belongs to the user. If that were not the case, then no one (including a record company) could make a recording.
Glitz.
theYinYeti
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:36 am Post subject:
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DOlson wrote:
I will make OGG files or MP3 files on my own whenever I want to. Just because I do this, doesn't mean that I am going to distribute them on the internet. I can easily fit 10 albums onto one CDR, which means that I have a much more enjoyable time listening to music.
Yes. That is what is called fair use. As long as it is for yourself ONLY, it's OK.
Yves.
theYinYeti
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:44 am Post subject:
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Glitz wrote:
Not quite. The hardware/software has no way to determine if an analog signal is copyrighted by the user or not. And since users must be able to record from a microphone and do whatever they want with material that they have the copyright for, then the hardware has no choice but to assume the analog signal copyright belongs to the user. If that were not the case, then no one (including a record company) could make a recording.
Glitz.
Read better. For this scheme from the record companies to work, I assumed they would have to "digitalize" all transfers between "approved" hardware, and encrypt all, along with additional meta-data. What I say is: if only such approved hardware is used, you have the situation explained above: you can only record on the same machine as the one having the Microphone (or other record device); and that would be analog-quality, ie very depending of the recording conditions. And if other people (recording industry) need to have more advanced rights (make the sound go through many machines before being actually recorded), one could imagine a payable subscription for a monthly/yearly licence, that would give such rights, in the form of a "identity" key, that would allows the encrypted data to go through all this-key-enabled machines.
All I say is only valid if you don't use non-"approved" hardware (ie illegal hardware). In those conditions, I'm pretty sure I can have an answer for each of yours. What I unfortunately think is that what technology could never do, law can. Hence it is the governments responsibility to ensure that freedom and fair use keep existing in the future.
Yves.
Glitz
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 9:36 pm Post subject:
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Actually, I didn't read the original post at all. Smile
But still, then I would also buy this approved hardware and the appropriate licensing fee as well. If they can buy/license it then so can I.
Second, who would be receiving these license fees and be approving this hardware? And again, regular people make recordings too and someone will sell "approved" recording equipment with a microphone. So, I'll just use one of those. In addition, regular people can be audiophiles too and demand premium quality recording equipment.
Glitz.
teòma
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2002 11:04 am Post subject:
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DOlson wrote:
I think that the music industry is stupid, just as Microsoft is stupid. They are shooting themselves in the head, only they haven't got good aim... They haven't dealt a death blow yet, and that is unfortunate. I wish they'd quit pretending to commit suicide and just get it over with.
I couldn't agree more with this!
The thing is the dead of M$ or the whole music industry is not the dead of music or software/OS/whatever, far from it, sure it would kill off the million clone boybands/Brithney Spears, but that is only a good thing.
The funniest thing about this is the music industry keeps saying, they are trying to protect the artists work and if you ever created anything, you would understand that.
NO! The music industry is protecting their income, if they payed even half of the CD's price to the artists, there would be a lot more rich people out there (lets face it one CD-R is about $1, here anyway) and saying we would understand if we ever created anything, that is just stupid, the music industry has never created anything, the artist has, you don't hear them complaining and why?
Cos the artists make more money from tours and mechandise, thats why, what better way to draw in a bigger crowd than spreading MP3s so you reach an audience you normally wouldn't?
And since we are on a Linux board I think everyone knows that dead of M$ wouldn't really affect anyone Very Happy
I hope some of that made sense at least
frew
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2002 4:50 am Post subject:
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*frew args at the whole copy protection mess*
I'll show em all! hahaha
Editor's note: This thread was originally posted at the old MUB (Mandrake User Board at club-nihil). This post is the result of a 99% automatic backup, so due to its nature some text may be lost (improbable but possible).
