SoulSe

Sometimes Linus is like your old uncle that sits with his whiskey in the corner - you have to respect him, but try to keep his mouth shut around your friends :P

Don't forget to drop a message to Intel and the Kernel dev team requesting better support for this set ;)

Firstly, iphitus' friend did not have DOA iPods. Dead on arrival is very different from "one of the buttons didn't work". And I still find it strange that the same person would get two dud iPods when I can't find one, but whatever. Your comment about France is both insulting to my intellect and completely tenuous, iphitus. Such abstract analogies are only used by the dimmest of wits and I know you don't fall into that category. I never said that there was no such thing as a DOA iPod, I merely said that I had never seen one and I didn't believe you - and I was right, because your friend's iPod was not dead. This is turning into a repeat of the iPhone thread and I'm more interested in discussing DRM than just lambasting Apple (again) as if they insulted your mothers or something. If you think it's fair to compare Apple to Sandisk than so be it. The Sandisk device are OK. They feel very plasticy to me and I personally wouldn't put them in the same category as the iPod, but it's hard to explain that to someone who hates Apple just for the sake of it. You confuse mass-functionality with quality, yet again. Every time we discuss Apple, iphitus and Gowator are first to point out how crap they think they are. If Apple products are really so un-amazing why are you the only two who ever seem to take the case on? You have beef with Apple, but it isn't backed up with any sound reasoning. You're just beating the same dead horse again. I'm not referring to your discussion about DRM, Gowator, but rather the usual insistence that Apple products have nothing to offer the market... I don't get it. Back to DRM then... Jobs is treating DRM like a necessary evil and I think part of his reasoning deals with the fact that certain Eastern-European countries are threatening action against the Apple model. Jobs is trying to show them that it is not Apple's fault, but the record labels that drive the requirement for DRM. In so doing I think part of his intention is to avert the attention away from his business and save his Norwegian business. Well, at least a little part of it is anyway...

Bad build quality on the iPod? :huh: I have a 60GB iPod photo, two years old and still as good as the day I bought it (barring the scratches, which buff out nicely with Brasso or toothpaste :P ). My brother has the 30GB model, about eight months older, still going strong. My boss had a 2nd Gen which he sold to a friend (still working), a third gen he gave to his wife (still working) and now a iPod Video bought at launch, still no problems in sight. My sister, wife and a lady at work all have Nanos that live in the dangerous environment of a woman's handbag and two of which get used when jogging and at the gym. No problems. I have eight more examples, but this is getting boring. Quite simply, I don't believe you iphitus. I've never even heard of a dead-on-arrival iPod... I lie - I heard of a few dead batteries, but that was ironed out like three years ago. We even crash tested the Nano for a magazine. I've seen them reversed over and still working! They are checked at the factory before shipping, so unless your friends bought a pair that had fallen off a ship, been digested by a shark and then fell off a building (or bought units with faulty batteries a million years ago), I find it hard to believe. And if you did get a dead one, Apple would replace it immediately. It's easy to say "Well, this cheap Whoflungdung over here does the same stuff.. kinda" but what customer service do you get from them? If you can even track down the manufacturer... Honestly...

I tend to take that statement from Jobs with a pinch of salt. The thing is that DRM does a lot for Apple's business model by keeping people locked into the Apple platform. Apple don't run the iTunes Music Store because their business is selling media; they do it because their business is selling iPods. All the iTunes Music Store does is keep people using iPods, which imho is what Apple wants. Remove DRM and you remove the lock-in aspects of the Apple model. This is fine for someone like me who actually doesn't mind being locked into Apple products (like I mind having to use the best media player around ) So perhaps Jobs has seen the light, but I'd be surprised. The biggest threat to his model now are new services from the likes of Microsoft that use a subscription model that allows consumers to eat all they can; this means they can re-download all the music they previously bought from the likes of Apple without having to pay for them again (directly).

Well try it and you'll see that it still works :P $ cat /etc/resolv.conf |grep server nameserver 192.168.0.1

It's never made a difference for me :huh: I always pipe things up against the | - although tyme's example is more correct ;)

Hey Willie. I'm also on Vodacom and I've installed these cards in Linux before - just not on Mandriva as such :( Access points are different to the initiation string though. Try making the APN 'internet' and then set it to dial *99#

"<everything gowator said>" The lock-in only exists in the States. America is the only country in the world that still does SIM locks, etc. It will not work the same way in Europe, or anywhere else, because it can not. There will be free software available for the iPhone. So what if Apple has to approve it? All that means is that it will definitely work. Now, back to Windows Mobile - I can not even find a free universal instant messenger for it! IM+ costs like $30. The only free IM clients use Jabber and I tried imov, which crashed repeatedly. Most of the software for the iPaq costs around $40 and little of the free stuff is any good (Skype and PocketPutty are the only two I have found any use for). Plus, because of the disparate array of WM devices, you're likely to encounter problems with them on your device. Oh, but that's OK. So long as you're not Apple who have the audacity to want to approve the software for your device?!? The iPhone is weird because it's attracting this strange, mindless, illogical tarnishing - and before it's even released. Something about the device or the way Steve presented it must have had a catalytic effect that turned dead-logical people into a mindless mob of haters with no point and less clue. Or maybe its rivals have undertaken a subtle smear-campaign which all of geekdom is weirdly subscribing to... I'm sorry, but I fail to see what Apple has done wrong here. I am yet to find a mobile phone device that renders my bank's web-site correctly. That is just one good reason to get the iPhone. I've tried MiniMo (the mozilla browser), Pocket IE and Opera (which isn't free and didn't work either) and none of them could do it. I also have not found a mobile device with a decent mail client, which the iPhone has. By the time it will come to South Africa it will have 3G, no Cingular contract and the price will have dropped substantially. Apple DOES NOT make money from your calls... I'm not sure where you got that idea from. It will also serve as a 3G modem and sync with my Powerbook. I will be able to use it with one hand (unlike my iPaq) and enjoy it as an iPod. Plus, once developers get hold of it, I'm sure it will have a Skype client, decent instant messenger (a iPhone version of Adium X would rock) and other applications that were scaled down to the version of OS X it runs. The only reasons I have heard not to get one so far have been FUD. Plain and simple.

oh heck, forget about the iphone...they need to release that sucker. Uh... the best it can do is GPRS, not even EDGE. I want a phone that does HSDPA or at least 3G. It isn't much of a communications platform if GPRS is the limit. I'm not a cell phone tech person, all these protocols/names mean nothing to me, and I don't really care, as long as I can make a phone call. I don't need the latest and greatest protocol to do that...for pete's sake my current phone is CDMA! The phone does do GSM, whatever that is. I live in a country where WiFi isn't as rife as, say, in America. I have to have good mobile connectivity for my business to run. So I care. A lot. GPRS - the slowest form of data communications over cellular. Gets the job done, but slowly - and with high latency. EDGE - GPRS on steroids. It has better bandwidth and slightly better latency. 3G - On 3G you can have latency similar to DSL. This is important to me because I use Skype often and play online games. Both of those are impossible on GPRS or EDGE but rock on 3G. HSDPA - 3G on steroids. And then some. Not only is it much faster than 3G, but the latency is even lower. This is the closest you can come to a DSL connection on your mobile. At the moment all the big cities in South Africa are covered with HSDPA. GSM and CDMA are voice-carrier technologies. They both work although GSM is far better. I was going to leave this thread behind, but the thought of what's going on in it behind my back is worse than confronting the ignorance full-on. :P Why do I feel so strongly about it? Well, my phone is a vital part of my life. I use it for EVERYTHING I can. Not just making calls. But the bigger reason is because I have never seen our board members act this way - you all claim to hate FUD, and yet I have seen it spread in this thread! It was said first that the iPhone doesn't support third party apps. When I showed you that this was simply not true, I got replies of "oh, but you have to buy the software from Apple" - more BS! When MS spread FUD about Linux you all react vehemently against it. But you have no problem spreading FUD on another company.... and that infuriates me.... or did. Now I just think it's funny :mellow:

I never said that they were iphitus. What I said was that they've been on a roll - that is a fact. Apple have hardly messed up at all since Jobs returned. If I went far back with any technology I could find you lists of failures. But Apple have not messed up since around 2000. I never said you did. I was just pointing this out none the less. A list of features of one device the iPhone, lined up against an even bigger and better list of features of a cheaper device, a nokia. A ridiculous price tag, and older technology compared to many phones now leading (nokia 6288, moto v3xx and co). Crippled functionality compared to a device with full functionality. These are not sour grapes SoulSe, they are *facts*. The iPhone is far overpriced, and very crippled device. But what we still don't exactly know, is what's so innovative? The touch screen isnt new. Many components of the UI are not new. The actual "innovations" on this phone will only be small UI quirks. The rest are just existing technology and minor improvements on current concepts. As a combination with the other improvements and features, it will make a great device. But the whole thing isnt a complete innovation. The whole touch phone device concept, isnt new either, LG has already done it, see the links a few pages back -- and with a nearly identical UI in parts. What exactly is so innovative? Apple didnt "invent" this touch screen (see LG phone). It's simply a touchscreen with a hardened surface, being able to use and recognise fingers, is done at software level. As for scratchproof and it not looking like a dogs breakfast...... my nano was heavily scratched in a few weeks, yet apple deny it's scratchability -- though they quietly shipped a case with new ones only a few months later..... I wouldnt be surprised if this phone comes with a similar case. Touch screen has a great "cool" factor, but it has drawbacks, and the jury is still out on whether it will actually make a good input form. James oh heck, forget about the iphone...they need to release that sucker. Uh... the best it can do is GPRS, not even EDGE. I want a phone that does HSDPA or at least 3G. It isn't much of a communications platform if GPRS is the limit. Other than that (and the GUI) it does seem to be awesome. the iPhone is only EDGE. It'll be interesting to see what the widgets on the iPhone are capable of. But apple have said bluntly, that they wont be allowing third party applications, and that's a big down side. Even if they are available later, you're locked into buying applications from apple. James - The iPhone will have 3G by the time it hits Europe. - I NEVER SAID THAT APPLE INVENTED THE TOUCH-SCREEN - BUT THEIR'S IS DIFFERENT TO ANY THAT HAS BEEN USED BEFORE - The applications will not be sold by Apple - they merely have to be approved. JUST LIKE WIDGETS - which are mostly free. Cripple device? Honestly iphitus, I can't believe you see credit in comparing a device that is 5 months away to one that is already here - and not that amazing. I received an N80 for testing. It sucks. Sony Ericsson takes the cake on every account. The features of a device are largely software-dependant and no one has done any dev work for the iPhone yet. Of course the iPhone is expensive now - it uses bits and pieces that don't exist yet. The mark up from Apple is expanded by Cingular to the 40% mark. Most other manufacturers pitch in at around 25% - BUT that is after they have recouped development costs. Apple have never made phones before, they have spent hella amounts on R&D. I'm going to leave this thread behind now, for the sake of my blood pressure.

oh heck, forget about the iphone...they need to release that sucker. Uh... the best it can do is GPRS, not even EDGE. I want a phone that does HSDPA or at least 3G. It isn't much of a communications platform if GPRS is the limit. Other than that (and the GUI) it does seem to be awesome. BTW: The dashboards widgets for OS X also have to be 'approved by Apple' - and this has hardly limited them at all. All it has done is made sure that they actually work. I'll reserve my opinion on what the iPhone can or cannot do until applications become available. Comparing it to the N80 or any other phone that is already available is pathetic - developers have had ages to make applications for other phones, so of course they can 'do more'.

I never said that they were iphitus. What I said was that they've been on a roll - that is a fact. Apple have hardly messed up at all since Jobs returned. If I went far back with any technology I could find you lists of failures. But Apple have not messed up since around 2000. I've had about enough of this conversation now. I just find it hard to see anything more than sour grapes in the criticism of the iPhone. I'm looking at the same device and I see something truly innovative. No one seems to grasp what Apple has achieved here, but I guess that means it'll be more accessible to those of us who do and make it a more exclusive device. I own an HP iPaq 6915 and I'd be hard pressed to find a better Windows Mobile device. Even as an owner of one I am ready to admit that the iPhone kicks the crap out of it. I can't wait to have the world's first truly robust touch screen that I can use my fingers on everyday without it looking like a dog's breakfast and probably breaking after a couple of weeks. Like I said - Apple owners and Porsche drivers....

He works for SIPphone - which runs on the N80 - he has a vested interest in running down Apple's phone. I'm a bit disappointed. The people on this board usually use new open source software - or at least try it - before passing judgement on it. Yet there seems to be no problem with writing-off a piece of hardware that isn't even available yet :huh: Of course, the same can be said for me singing its praises. But I refuse to believe that the new Apple, with its long record of successes will botch this one up. Actually... what do I care, when I get my iPhone I's actually prefer it if I were the only person I knew with one :P

I don't know, but if it continues, posts will have to be modded (split/edited/etc.) as it's getting dangerously close to qualifying as a political debate. And as we all know, that's only allowed in OTW ;) (translation: get back on topic, please) No need and as I said ... so far as I was posting.... and to say SoulSe didn't understand his full quote was EXACTLY what I mean't. Basically that the two things (the OTW part) and Off-Topic but not OTW part... basically exactly as SouleSe said... :huh: Perhaps... the difference is that it's a concept phone that will probably never be built, whereas the iPhone is a reality.

I'm a game whore - any good game will do :) FPS, RPG, MMORPG, Strat, Sim, whatever. Although recently I haven't been playing much except World of Warcraft.

Did I miss something? :unsure: Heck, I'm South African - but I'm proud of any nation that can come up with something as sweet as the iPhone :P The two don't necassarily have to have any link.. indeed in most cases its better not to IMHO. Back in Aparthied years you could still be proud to be South African without supporting and being embarassed by your government. If this wasn't the case then a black or colored person back then couldn't be proud to be whomever they identify with... :D (enough touching the edges of politics right now though that's for OTW) Sorry, I still don't understand what you all are on about. I'm proud to be South African - I was even proud to be South African during the apartheid years because I saw how hard my fellow countrymen were fighting for freedom and moving towards the world's first and only peaceful revolution. I'm prouder of my country than anyone I know - why are we discussing how proud we are of our countries in a thread about the iPhone? Actually IBM build quality is excellent in their top range product... styling is something else unfortunately.... So far as IBM they make the best processors for fpu calculations (by speed if not power consumption) and the best most innovative storage... which is why Apple used a lot of their components :D Comparing a IBM and Sun server the IBM's are way better engineered (Sun welding is crap one ones I have worked with) ... I never disputed the quality of IBM Thinkpads - they are exceptionally good. Unfortunately they are crippled by their operating system. If I had to use a PC it would be a Thinkpad (Lenovo makes them now, not IBM, although they are aligned). EDIT: I didn't have to edit any tags! Maybe it's because I use a Mac

Did I miss something? :unsure: Heck, I'm South African - but I'm proud of any nation that can come up with something as sweet as the iPhone :P 9 years here, although I broke the winning streak with an install of Windows last year (I had to check a website I made in IE and I wanted to play WoW without Cedega). We can argue the effectiveness of Linux as a desktop operating system til we're blue in the face. My personal opinion is that I can't bank on it in an everyday, working environment and I think it still has a long way to go before being a complete desktop solution. It rocks the big ones on servers and always has and I guess for basic desktop users it's OK. But the numbers speak for themselves; until Linux offers more rock-solid install procedure and cohesion in the desktop environment it will remain on the bottom-rung. Actually they use Intel now - but that doesn't matter. Apple hardware is superior because it is streamlined and the build-quality is quite simply the best in the market. I get laptops to test all of the time, being a tech journalist. The Thinkpad is the best PC laptop I have used - an still nowhere near as good as my Powerbook. The biggest problem is that it uses Windows or Linux - both of which are crap on laptops, especially with sleep-states, something only Apple has got right - I can close my Powerbook and it sleeps immediately and I can leave it that way for days - open it again and it wakes immediately with my desktop exactly as I left it. No Linux / Windows laptop can do that. Period. My Powerbook has enjoyed uptime of 28 days and a colleague of mine has a Macbook that is coming up on 50 days uptime. These are machines that are constantly transported, go with us on holiday, to meetings, spend a couple of days sleeping on desks, etc.

I'm busy signing up right now - it looks pretty cool.

As joaopa suggested, your system might not have direct rendering enabled. You can check it with: $ glxinfo |grep direct If the answer is no, then you will have to install the ATI drivers and configure direct rendering. There are posts on this board that explain how to do this, so search for them. I used to play World of Warcraft in Cedega and it worked very well with very little effort (I just had to change a config file to get the mouse targeting working properly, but I think this has since been fixed).

By the way: the iPhone DOES support third party apps, as explained over here. The catch is that the applications must be approved by Apple. You could say that this sucks - me, I think I like the idea of a quality control, especially having used a WM device where many apps I've downloaded have buggered things up (Tomtom broke the Bluetooth, for one).

Well, now, you can't. They are aimed at entirely different Markets, as the Apple has no support whatsoever for third party applications. Sorry, but without that, I'd prefer the Windows Mobile device. Doesn't support third party apps? :unsure: First I've heard of that. You might be right, but I can't find any info to confirm that anywhere. To my understanding, it does support third party apps. The others just werent designed to have fingers used on them. Apple most likely didnt create or invent it's touch screen, so that's a moot point. Samsung had it in a mobile phone first anyway... Apple did invent theirs - of the 200 patents for the iPhone, most involve the screen. It sacrifices tactile-response for robustness, which I have no problem with. Of course, Apple didn't invent the touch screen - but they seem to have perfected it. We'll only know when we get to play with one. So far I've read articles by two journalists who have and they both say it rocks. One day this will change, and ironically, it's apple that's shown its possible to solidify a unix environment into a coherent desktop. There's a lot of promising things moving at the moment towards that goal, but you are correct, the "Linux desktop" (and I hate that term so much) isnt quite up to scratch compared to OSX. Exactly my point. It is a bit pricey right now, but still in the same bracket as my hw6915, which I would happily trade for an iPhone. By the time it hits Europe by the end of the year I'm sure it will support 3G. It didn't have to for the American market, since the best you can do in the States is EDGE. 3G would have been a waste of time. Of course, with all the new technology in the iPhone the price will be high at first, the same was true for the iPod. Once retail opens and sales pick up it should drop quite heavily. That's how it happened with the iPod - and any new technology that incorporates parts and processes that have never been used before. Of course, I haven't played with one yet, but Apple has a long record of not screwing up, so I have no reason to believe they have now. So your WM device has never crashed? Mine hangs all the time. The interface is clumsy and using it as an everyday mobile phone is a nightmare. A stylus requires two hands, which is my problem with it. I need to be able to read / reply to SMS and make calls with one hand. Using your fingers is logically a better approach. I'm not saying you need an iPhone - each to their own. But I can't imagine why anyone would prefer a WM device and I'd like to see some links about third party software on the iPhone, because I can't find any.

All I'm hearing is personal opinion. What I do find hard to believe is Linux users defending Windows Mobile. I have an iPaq hw6915 - and I would argue that it is currently the best Windows Mobile device available (from what I've seen) - and it blows! Why? The operating system is quite simply the worst I have ever used. Hands down. How could you even begin to compare the iPhone to a WM device? First off, while you can use your fingers on current touch screens, doing so would limit it's life to a couple of months (I've had three Palms, two iPaqs and short spates with a range of other PDAs - the touch screens are not exactly robust). What Apple have done is come up with a resilient touch screen that can be used daily with your fingers and not bug out. You may or may not like OS X and have other opinions about Apple, but you can not argue about quality of hardware. Only a fool would dispute the quality of Apple hardware. Personally, I can't wait to have a mobile phone that is as reliable, attractive and robust as my 12" powerbook (which has survived more knocks than any PC I have owned). I have been using Linux for 9 years now and will continue to. It lives on my servers and I use it on my desktop machine at home (although that is largely a dust magnet since I switched to Mac). But for me, in an every day, working scenario, you can not beat OS X. Whether Linux users will admit it or not - I know (because I am one) that desktop Linux is unreliable from a user perspective and requires constant attention to keep going. That is fine on a toy machine, but I can not afford that in my work. On servers Linux is rock solid and my OS of choice (although that would change if I could afford an X server). That is my opinion. But there are facts - like hardware reliability, like the fact that Macs are not more expensive (compare features and you'll see that tyme is right - take into account the addition of WiFi, Bluetooth, tilt detection, HD size, Screen quality. The Mac Pro also out powers any similarly priced PC, the closest is a Dell that costs $2000 more). I happily rock an Apple sticker in my back window. Superior products are always attacked with sour grapes. That's something that Porsche drivers and Apple owners both have to put up with :P

It all depends on which game it is. Some of them have an installer for Linux that you download from the net and then use the Windows retail CDs to install (most of the Id games are like that, iirc Doom 3 is too, not sure about Quake). Other games, like Unreal Tournament 2004 come with the Linux installer on the disc. Of course, that is for games that have been ported to Linux (have a Linux version available). There are numerous lists of such games on here and elsewhere. You can also Google to find out what the installation procedure is for each of them. As for Half Life 2 - there is no Linux version of that, but you can play it in Linux using Cedega. Cedega basically spoofs a Windows environment in a directory on your Linux system, along with libraries that provide compatibility with DirectX and allow Windows games to run. On the website there is a list of which games work with Cedega. I know HL2 is one of them because I played that. Short answer: check on the Internet before hitting the stores ;)

Welcome to the board :) What you must understand about Networking in Linux is that it happens at the system level. Gnome and KDE are mere desktop environments. They might provide you with wizards for menial network configuration, but they have little to do with the workings of it. SAMBA for example is controlled by a file called smb.conf that must be configured to make it work properly. Your DNS servers are contained in a file called resolv.conf. All the wizards are doing is altering those files for you - and sometimes botching it up. To help you set up your network we need more information. Have you got the computers communicating yet (can they ping each other)? Is your Internet connection sharing to them properly? Is it just file sharing that you need to get working? Are all the computers using Linux or are some Windows / Mac? Also check out a tool called Webmin - it allows you to configure the system, including many network options / servers from in a web browser. The ideal is to manipulate the configuration files yourself, but if you must have a GUI, Webmin is the only one that brings everything together in one place... that I know of. EDIT: Also, if all the computers are Linux, then most of the things you have mentioned can be done with straight SSH connections. Any added file manipulation, folder creation and copying can be done using the SFTP subsystem and SCP command. Networking is an integral part of Linux and most things happen over SSH. SAMBA is only used with Windows machines and is not necessary if everything is Linux.