null Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 I was at Borders Books yesterday looking for just ONE general linux book that covers the basics + a little more. The tests I was using were "tar" and "apt-get" - I wanted to see if any books discussed these issues. I know, I know - apt-get is pretty easy - even for me... but I just wanted to see if any books say that it even exists... I looked thru maybe 3 or 4 huge 1000+ page "redhat 9 bible" or "redhat 9 secrets" or "redhat 9 unleashed' or basically any "everything you always wanted to know about linux...". You would think that in more than 1000 pages you would find a discussion regarding installing software by way of tar... nope. Apt-get - not even mentioned anywhere... Tar may be mentioned, but most of the discussion may be regarding "backups with tar". I didn't see much in the way of installing software by tar. The more "lightweight" books - "Learn blah blah linux in 24 hours", blah blah linux for dummies" - tar? - nope not mentioned - ONLY rpm is discussed. Apt-get - not mentioned. That's why, on all the linux boards around, there are probably tons of posts like "how do I install tar software..." The point is, I can't even find ONE linux book that I like. I just come here. I know some people on this board don't believe wasting money on linux books - just find whatever info you need on the internet for free. Still, I'd like to have one good general book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anon Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 I don't know about the Redhat Distro your using, but if you buy a Mandrake box set, it comes with two books which cover all the things you mentioned and more. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted October 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 hmmm.... I'm using rh9 at the moment, but I did buy the mandrake 9.0 powerpack - I'll check out the books when I get home... I generally don't read books that come with software... :? I know, I know, I should still it would be nice to have a large linux book that has everything you need to know to actually use the system and do things with it. Not just 1000 pages of setting up samba, backing up your system with tar, blah blah. Be nice to see a chapter something like "All about installing software - tar, rpm, apt-get, blah blah - everything you need to know" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonMage Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 Personally, I think distro specific books are a waste of money. I learned much more from reading the How-To, docs from LDP, this and other boards, etc. Now, since LinuxIt is supposedly putting their own training manuals for LPI Level 1 certification under GPL, this have the potential to be the best general purpose manual for linux training. I have yet to see the docs, though so I cannot judge how good it is yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 Hmmmm. I agree on the basics book. And the 'general uselessness' of Linux books. What you seem to have missed is what a tar actually is. It's not your fault becuase where the hell would you find out..... I know its catch-22 The main problem is possibly the lack of any 'easy start' and universal glossary. One of the main failings of most linux books is they fail to describe linux's relationship with UNIX in general. tar has NOTHING to do with linux. NOTHING. It was around before linux and will continue after linux becuase its a UNIX standard. This begs the question should it be mentioed in a LINUX book. ????? I don't know and I'm deliberately playing Devils advocate here :wink: but I understand your frustration. Some of the online tech dictionaries are possibly the best source of definitions.... Back to your TAR.... One distro used TAR as an open standard and further gz compression of a tar file as an extension to this open standard and they made this the way that 'packages' were 'installed on their distro' . That distro is slackware ..... So if you want documentation you should look at the slackware documentation..... Redhat is completely opposed to tar.gz .... in fact you could say RedHat is Redhat Package Manager. (RPM).... Their philosophy is the i386 RPM philosophy so no official RedHat book should really mention installing from tar ball. You stand to 'break' the stability of using the RedHat signed packages. You could also say that APT is Debian..... etc etc Gentoo is emerge.... All of this is true but where to look to learn this Im not sure. Hang around here ??? The SAG/NAG documentation is pretty good but possibly high level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted October 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 I agree with most of that, but... I know apt is not exactly redhat, however - it IS available and it DOES work great and it DOES make things alot easier... So, as a beginner, I would just appreciate a $50 "complete" redhat book saying something like - "hey, this apt-get is alot easier, why don't you try it... here's what is is and how it works...". I didn't think to look at the various linux "certification" books - maybe one of those would be more like what I want... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qchem Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 The reason you're not going to find apt in redhat books is that redhat doesn't come with apt, it's a third party ad-on. Except in the case of slackware, tar isn't a package - it's just a way of compressing files into an archive - the linux books I've read tend to have brief sections on compiling source code, which appears to be what you mean. I'd recommend the book RUTE, it's freely available on the web (in html and ps formats IIRC) and you can also buy a hardcopy if you feel the need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linux_learner Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 most of these books you mentioned tell us to use the man pages, which has tar, and apt-get in them. there is no way a book can cover everything about linux. one book i found worth the investment was "hacking linux exposed 2nd edition". in the windows world, books dont tell you everything. neither do the web sites. i guess its that the books are designed to give you a grounding, not spoon feed you every detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JaseP Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 The only useful books are the ones that come with a fairly recent distribution in the attached discs. Linux books often get to print too late to be of any use. There are tons of improvements made from time to time, and it's hard to get a book that is recent enough to cover them. What is really needed is a regular magazine that gets circulated and includes a distro per month on the enclosed CDs. That would be more current. However, I don't know of such a magazine, at least in the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qchem Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 The magazine Linux Format is pretty good for that in the UK, AFAIK it's also available in Australia and the US as an import (read expensive). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlc Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 The magazine Linux Format is pretty good for that in the UK, AFAIK it's also available in Australia and the US as an import (read expensive). It's around $15 here in the US. Linux Administration Handbook 3rd editon is a pretty good book. click cyberjackle's link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 The magazine Linux Format is pretty good for that in the UK, AFAIK it's also available in Australia and the US as an import (read expensive). As a newbie, I found it a bit heavy going. My local W H Smith has several linux mags now, including Linux Magazine (http://www.linux-magazine.com) which seems quite newbie-friendly. I see there is also a US Linux Magazine (no relation, apparently) which seems to be at about the same level (http://www.linux-mag.com). Click on the current issues for a taster. :) No free distro tho'... :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted October 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 I actually like Linux Format magazine. That's where I learned all about setting up apt-get on redhat. I followed the instructions and got it working great, upgraded my entire system, did an apt-get of k3b - perfect ! I Could never get k3b installed the rpm way... rpm just literally sucks big time... in my opinion... Stuff like that is what I'd like in one basic linux book. As cyberjackal says, LF magazine is $15 here in the US, if my calculations are correct - that's $180 per year. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 The reason you're not going to find apt in redhat books is that redhat doesn't come with apt, it's a third party ad-on. Except in the case of slackware, tar isn't a package - it's just a way of compressing files into an archive - the linux books I've read tend to have brief sections on compiling source code, which appears to be what you mean. I'd recommend the book RUTE, it's freely available on the web (in html and ps formats IIRC) and you can also buy a hardcopy if you feel the need. Ill just hijack this to make my point, it seems apt :wink: If you install APT on a Redhat system that REdHat system ceases top be a RedHat system, it becomes a hacked, unsupported redHat system. So perhaps the book which contains how to install APT on RH would be called hacking RedHat linux. But thats a whole anathema, it goes against everything RH is trying to be which is solid, stable, boring? - server oriented. RUTE/NAG/etc. are all available on the web and mostly also on the mandrake install disks under books. TAR. Or its not an installer.... Its a tape encapulation mechanism. Tape ARchiver. As I said why would any linux book talk about it. Its nothing to do with linux any more than say TCP/IP is. You can buy the TCP/IP book from O'Reilly. Its not specifically TAR but well lots of things.... A Linux book could cover every optional component of linux. Do you expect a full java and fortran primer in every linux book ? mysql ? php ? perl ? UDP and every other common protocol ???? :wink: OK, I'm just trying to make a point and the real point is I agree with nul ... very little is written to explain this to noobies. Its very much a 'your expected to know the history of linux thing'. To be honest this is eliteist BS.. Your friends at mandrakeusers and Mr. Google are your best tools for this! and of course Ms. Man and the LDP. Unfortunately interpreting man pages is something you just have to get used to. I posted on this a while ago :wink: One thing is that the man pages all follow the same format so once you get used to it you find the info pretty quick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlc Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 On top of what Gowtar stated, I would imagine if another book comes out for RH 10 or Fedora Project Cambridge(I think) since they will be includeing apt and yum, I imagine the next book will cover them. That is if they still decide to make a book for Fedora Project. Probably will since every book publisher loves money and that would be some more! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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