Jump to content

Linux books - generally a waste of money


null
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi, null...

 

I learned about tar in two places. The easiest place that doesn't cost any money is at the following forum:

 

http://linuxiso.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=3

 

This is the Red Hat forum at www.linuxiso.org. On this forum page is a wonderful and fabulous Linux Easy Guide which explains everything about tars and apt-get (even using apt-get and synaptic in Red Hat 9), written by yowww from Ontario, Canada. He now even has developed his own forum at

 

http://easylinuxguide.com/

 

or more specifically at :

 

http://easylinuxguide.jsutnoni.com/index.php.

 

This will help you TREMENDOUSLY! Believe me.

 

Another source I use (which other will probably laugh at me, but which I found really helpful) is

 

LINUX FOR DUMMIES (the 2003 edition with the Red Hat 8 discs in the back). It has several authors (it's NOT the one written by Mad Dog Hall or whatever his name is that wrote the prior edition).,

It is also very well written and very practical for the non-technical newbie.

 

Hope this helps....

 

Richard L. from Houston

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 31
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

ok, I agree with the "won't find apt-get discussed in a Red Hat book..." thing. I know that there are lots of actual Red Hat Press books about RedHat, and I would not expect to find (non-redhat) neat stuff in those books...

 

The books I was looking at were just large books about rh 9 - Not published by Red Hat Press. Therefore, it would make sense to find chapters like "look at this cool way you can install software... it's called apt - it doesn't actually come with your red hat distro BUT here's how to get it and how to use it..."

 

If I ever see a book with "hacking" in the title, I figure its over my head... :?

 

I'm gonna look at some of the Linux+ books. I think they have large sections regarding ALL methods of installing software... and I would be studying for a certification at the same time... yeah right, me linux certified :?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to agree with Sarah.

The O'Reilly books are just about the only consistent place for documentation of opensource stuff from Apache to Zope.

 

UNIX includes literally millions of components some of which are UNIX specific and others not.

 

Linux contains compenents on top of UNIX ... some of which are distro specific and others not.

 

RH will I presume document RPM,

Debian will document APT.

 

Mandrake I presume docuemnt the Drake wizards somewhere.... after you join the club and sign in triplicicate ?? Or perhaps I live in a hopeful world?

 

 

But 90% of the documentation is HOW-TO/info/man by the actual maintainers and the ultimate documentation is always available in the form of source code.

 

(Thats the idea anyway)

 

So O'Reilly publish the SAMBA documentation..... Its not Linux specific.... It runs on ANY UNIX from OS-X, FreeBSD,Linux, AIX ... etc.

And it runs identically so the point is you need to read the SAMBA Docs.

 

LESS (the command) is probably only documented in the man pages....

 

This is the way it is....and everyone is free to contribute with documentation/translations etc.

 

However nul makes a good point: where does a beginner start?

The O Reilly book on DNS is possibly a bit heavy for anyone who just wants to set up a DHCP client and get an IP assigned etc. What is needed is the summary of all these little snippets in an easy to digest form with further reading lists ??? Perhaps....

 

There is also a lot of misleading information out there.... and 'urban myth' surrounding a lot of things. Specifically, what is/belongs to Linux and what belongs to UNIX and what belongs to common standards.

 

The tar example is just one of a million of these. Take X, or even specifically XFREE86.... becuase its source you can run it on ANY Unix client, quite why you would want to replace XSUN on a solaris box is another question but it also runs on BSD and BeOS and ......

And XFREE86 is itself only a subset of X.

 

For Mandrake users and many other distro's I recommend strongly including the documentation, especially 'the books'. NAG/SAG etc.

These can be a bit heavy but the good thing is they explain what it is your reading about and where it came from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The magazine Linux Format is pretty good for that in the UK, AFAIK it's also available in Australia and the US as an import (read expensive).

 

It's around $15 here in the US.

 

Linux Administration Handbook 3rd editon is a pretty good book.

 

link

 

 

I agree with Orielly's, MAN, How-to's, IBM's Development Site, Gentoo's Doc's & the book I posted above, it talks about the differnce between RH/SuSE/Debian from a Command Line perspective instead of using there GUI's. Yes, it explains APT. I would really suggest just picking the book up at a book store and just flip through it to see if it is something you like. I've seen it at Borders, Barnes & Knobles & MicroCenter just to name a few so it should be around you just to skim through.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That IBM site you posted REALLY ROCKED!

 

I'm still looking for information though on what to give to a complete noobie :D

 

I just installed Mandrake 9.1 on a computer for a friend :D And I see she's alredy joined this forum ... (hi)

I did have one book, Linux for windows users but it doesn't really cover just what is Linux.

 

Linux makes a lot of pre-assumptions as to your knowledge about a lot of different things and it is difficult to explain this to a new convert.

 

Apart from Bill/M$ bashing ... :twisted: . one of the main things about the WHY DO YOU USE LINUX thread that came across (for me at least) was that linux lets you configure it the way YOU want.

Thats all well and good but where does a noobie start.

Like cybrjackle I came from a UNIX world and it was comforting to see an OS at home that spoke my language.

However its hard to imagine me just getting dumped in that world without the UNIX knowledge I had. Just where do you start ???

 

There is also a load of 'urban legend' stuff developing, mainly from people who went from windows to Linux (which is why I keep telling people to at least try other OS's).

 

The problem is mainly that if I want to understand TCP/IP I can go and download the white paper but I don't think my mum would be very happy reading it. I also start off with a good idea of what TCP/IP is......

 

Taking the tar question .....

This is one of those questions where the answer is "If I was going to there I wouldn't be starting from here" ... but I can completely see why someone would see TAR as an install method and not a tape encapsulation method.

The Linux Administration Handbook looks pretty good, at least the 65 pages from Amazon :D

 

But its still a bit heavy (????) the problem is I don't really see any option. Unless you understand this stuff you just stand to become a <insert distro> drone instead on a MS drone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like cybrjackle I came from a UNIX world and it was comforting to see an OS at home that spoke my language.

However its hard to imagine me just getting dumped in that world without the UNIX knowledge I had.  Just where do you start ???

 

On top of something like this, obviously I had to learn Solaris or any kind of Unix from scratch some were and you might ask well how did you learn that to make the transition to Linux easy? Answer: I don't know, I read a lot of books on Unix & Linux in general, I read and read. Were they fun books? Would I hand them to anyone and say "Oh, don't worry you wont fall asleep reading this"? Heck NO. All I remember from my Noob days was that I read a lot, but not everyone is going to want to do that. Before that I had just come off of 5 months studying NT 4.0 non stop to pass 6 test and then Studied Cisco routers/switches for a CCNA in a month. So my brain was already conviced that all I could do was READ READ READ and practice practice practice.

 

It all really depends on what you want to use it for. Many Linux users wanted it to be the same as Windows & Mac: email, print, money, & Internet. That's all they want and they don't really need or have the desire to get dirty with Linux. I really think those people would have no problem using MDK/RH/SuSE as a stock install, but there is a learning curve when you want to install a new piece of software, BUT it really isn't any differnt than say WinZip for Windows. Did everyone really know how to use winzip to get software they downloaded. NO.

 

I'm the opposite, I work with Solaris and I would rather be working on Linux in my job, so I have worked hard at learning everything my brain will taken for the moment. BUT, not only do it because I want to work with it, I do it because I ENJOY working with Linux, there is so much you can do with it. To me it is the BEST OS on the planet. 8)

 

 

Basically, I think I just spit out a lot of garbage there, but most of it has some truth behind it. I remember one of the first Linux books I picked up was something like Learn Linux in 24 hours or a month or something. I really think that book helped to. It even came with some version of RH or MDK. So that might be another idea, look for the Linux for Dummies or the Learn Linux or Linux for Beginner books. There's nothing wrong with flipping through them and the best ones are the ones that have examples, read a chapter at the end, "Do this". Just reinforces what you went through.

 

 

Anyway, have fun with Linux, learn something and a year or five from now, you wont remember how you learned everything you know. :wink:

 

**Side Note**

 

The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know! :roll:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm gonna flip thru a few of the books mentioned above, next time I'm at Borders or B&N.

 

I'm not really "scared" of this linux stuff, its just different. When I was younger, like back in the mid-80's to early 90's - I really loved DOS - I suppose I was a DOS "power user...". I wasn't interested in win 3.1 when it was getting popular in the early 90s. "drag & drop..." - what the hell did that mean... :?

 

However, after dragging & dropping for 10 years now, and being older and with a family & career, I just don't have the patience that I did back in my 20s.

 

That's why I'd like a general book that has the daily basics that you need to know.. like installing from tars, fs basics, what certain files do and how to edit them safely, what NOT to screw around with... :? and stuff like that.

 

Plus I can leave it on the magazine rack in our bathroom, and have something to read while I'm sittin' .. 8)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have seen far too many Data Center oriented books on Linux. Part of the problem there, has been Redhat's attitude of 'Linux is for Servers, only'. Unfortunately, that attitude caught on. Another attitude problem I see with Linux, is the focus on Desktop, as in Only at Work, NOT at home. This is showing up in print, where most of it, has to do with MS workplace substitutes. Of the rest tha I have actually seen, it is written by Geeks, FOR Geeks, in GEEKESE.

 

Hmmm, MAN pages. I do have a rant with those, and the How Tos: Also written in GEEKESE and assume you are already an expert.

 

The 2 printed manuals (books) that come with Mandrake Powerpack: Written in plain language. OH, what a Novelty that is! (Great Idea, too!!!). Thanks to them, I actually understood what Tarballs are, and alot of other things. Yes, I actually took the time to READ both of them. This was back when I got my very first copy of Linux: Mandrake Linux 7.2 Powerpack Edition.

 

Keep in mind, that I am one of those, that the Geeks like to sneer at: A long time MSDOS/Windows user, and worst of all, a Home user! :D

 

I don't know about other distros, but, Mandrake has this GUI Archiver front end, which is SO Nice! No more typing in loooong lines on the console, just to extract things from tar.gz files.

 

Newbies do need plain language books to explain the basics, including how to call up MAN pages. Most importantly, Linux books need to be Distro neutral and explain things like RPM and apt-get, and so forth. They do need to include things like how to compile programs that the author requires you to compile, just to use. I can go on and on, but do include how to use Tar, gzip, and other essential utilities that are standard in Linux, but from the UNIX and BSD world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was actually thinking of writing a 'newbie-ized' book about Linux. The point I got stumped is the problem with differences in distros, because a lot of newbies will say "Open a console??? What's a console???" and I can't just say "Click the little TV-looking thing on the bottom left."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Open a console??? What's a console???"

 

:lol: I'm not THAT bad...

 

and I'm trying to avoid the "Dummies" series... SOME of the "dummies" books are pretty well written, but some of them are just all jokes and no "meat"... Plus I'm trying to stay out of the mind-set that I'm a "Dummy" or a "Complete Idiot"... :?

 

One of these evenings, I'm not gonna do anything except check out the net for all the linux "help" sites (linuxnewbie, blah blah) and find a few I like....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No more typing in loooong lines on the console, just to extract things from tar.gz files.

 

 

You aren't meant to type them.

First you have bash completion....you start a few letters and it finishes for you.

Second you have middle mouse button.

 

Lets say you want a file

wget http://asite.com/afileIwant.tgz

then

tar xvfz (middle button) afileIwant.tgz

 

90% of the time the CLI is easier and quicker, you just need to know the tricks :D

 

 

Using the gui is an old habit and it dies hard but using the two toether is the best way....

BTW achiver is a great tool anyway..... but I don't use it all the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read somewhere (amazon.com I think) about someone suggesting that a good "general purpose, do everything book" would be one of the cert books - like a Linux+ book, or RHCE book or like that. Because they basically tell how to do everything and are even helpful to beginners, who could then "grow" into the more advanced topics.

 

Anyway, I still can't find a good "one book tells all", but after looking thru some of the "cert" books, I agree that they do seem good. I may decide on one of those.

 

Not exactly "linux" books, but a couple of books I just bought are:

Thinking in Java, by Eckel

Head First Java, by ?? I forget

oh yeah... Oracle 9i for Dummies :? I broke my "no dummies books" rule on that one... It seems like a good book though

 

I like the "casual" writing style of the Head First book. Makes learning more enjoyable. Its put out by O'Reilly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if I already said this in here or not, and i don't feel like looking to see if i did ;-) but the best two books i ever invested in with regards to Linux:

Linux in a Nutshell

and

Running Linux

 

both are great resources...and much easier than searching for info on the web!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll have to check out Running Linux again next time I'm at the bookstore.

 

I was never interested in it before because I think the 3rd edition was the one that was out for a long time, and maybe it had an old date like "1999" or something....

 

I think they have released a 4th edition now, so I'll make a point to look at it again...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...