Steve Scrimpshire Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 It seems to me that Mandrake is going the wrong direction to recruit new Linux users. This 9.1 install has got to be ten times more painful/aggravating than 8.1 was for me. In 8.1, I had to start the install from disk 2 and hit F!, then type in alt2 to use the 2.2.* kernel, because of my Kadoka MoBo and something in MDK's .config (never figured out what, but one day I will). In 9.1, there is no such option, or it's not obvious. [*] Upgrade is impossible. [*] VGA option passed to the kernel by default gives me no video on the console while booting or VTs afterwards. (NVidia GeForce4) [*] No option to not start X at boot at end of install (or the option didn't show up for me) [*] Individual package selection is not obvious [*] Graphical diskdrake to partition is a joke (not intuitive) and the checkboxes for what to format tricked me into formatting my backup partition [*] Modules tainting kernels allofasudden [*] GTK error: Cannot connect to display ($DISPLAY environment not set for GTK(?) apps. Nothing from KDE's kicker will run. [*] My clock keeps getting changed by MDK to a time that is not logical (i.e. Gets set to 5:34 when actual time is 11:17 ... yes, I've chosen that my hardware clock is not set to GMT and why do the minutes change? I can boot in and out of WinXP with no problems with my clock, but if I boot into Linux at any point, WHAMO! clock changed) [*] wvdial doesn't work ... don't know why. It starts pppd then pppd dies with error 10...something about a proper ppp protocol not started. kppp works fine. [*] KDE 'K' menu button has no 'Applications' 'Networking' etc, neither does Gnome's 'Foot' button. It's 'Most recent' or 'Run command' where the heck are my apps menus???? I am by no means a newbie anymore, but these are only a few of my problems. If I were a newbie, I would put 9.1 on the shelf and go back to WinXP. Please do not flame me. I love Linux and MDK .. but 9.1 is a *&$#@@#! to install. No way to attract new followers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JaseP Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 I'm sorry to hear that you are having trouble. I have not upgraded yet from 8.2 to 9.1. I know that certain hardware and hardware configurations don't play nice with Mandrake's install routine. For instance, if you have a CD-ROM drive on the same IDE line as the primary Boot drive, 8.2 wouldn't start the install routine properly. Despite your problems though, most people are raving about 9.1. I'd like to get on the bandwagon, myself. I'm even considering using its ability to manipulate NTFS partitions to install on my work laptop as a duel boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidzoo Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 [*] No option to not start X at boot at end of install (or the option didn't show up for me) I can address this part of your issues. At the end of the install, you are given a list of things that have been done with options to change them. If you go into the X config part, there is an option at the end of the config to start X at boot. I agree with you, though. IMHO the options in 8.1-9.0 for installing were much easier to understand. It does, however, seem that 9.1 is geared more towards people who may be brand new to Linux and might not know what to do for most of these configuration options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Scrimpshire Posted May 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 Well I didn't mean to sound ungrateful. lol. I love 9.1 now that it's installed, but there are still some bugs for me to work out. I was just demonstrating how frustrating it could be for a newbie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anon Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 I know your an old timer :wink: but: http://www.mandrakeusers.org/viewtopic.php...p?p=39177#39177 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Scrimpshire Posted May 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 Thanks. This post was venting my frustrations. I was gonna seaqrch for solutions to my problems next. Guess the updates are first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 VGA: at lilo, try linux vga=ask or linux vga=NORMAL The option to start X at boot is at the Summary page at the very end of the install. If you choose to reconfigure X there's an Option button. I don't even remember 8.1's install, but the Individual pkg selection can't get anymore obvious than at the first screen of selecting pkgs :wink: NVIDIA taints the kernel as well. this is like the bad sig message when installing an rpm.....useless...pay no attention to it. Did you choose the ntpd daemon for time? I had the same prob with wvdial. It took me a week to reallize what I've told many people....... does /etc/ppp/options have defaultroute in it? Fixed my wvdial Hope it gets better for you. Just think of all the time you've put into 8.1 and realize that it won't take near that to be happy in 9.1. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Scrimpshire Posted May 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 I already knew how to fix the vga option at boot, thanks. My /etc/ppp/options file did not contain that line, but adding it did not fix it. I'm assuming it's something to do with hotplug. Here's the relevent part of /var/log/messages: May 30 23:02:05 localhost pppd[2521]: pppd 2.4.1 started by root, uid 0 May 30 23:02:05 localhost pppd[2521]: Using interface ppp0 May 30 23:02:05 localhost pppd[2521]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ttyS0 May 30 23:02:05 localhost /etc/hotplug/net.agent: assuming ppp0 is already up May 30 23:02:25 localhost pppd[2521]: Hangup (SIGHUP) May 30 23:02:25 localhost pppd[2521]: Modem hangup May 30 23:02:25 localhost pppd[2521]: Connection terminated. May 30 23:02:25 localhost pppd[2521]: Exit. May 30 23:02:25 localhost /etc/hotplug/net.agent: NET unregister event not suppo rted /var/log/messages when I successfully connect using kppp: May 30 23:06:00 localhost pppd[2691]: pppd 2.4.1 started by omar, uid 502 May 30 23:06:00 localhost pppd[2691]: Using interface ppp0 May 30 23:06:00 localhost pppd[2691]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ttyS0 May 30 23:06:00 localhost /etc/hotplug/net.agent: assuming ppp0 is already up May 30 23:06:04 localhost pppd[2691]: local IP address 65.150.236.112 May 30 23:06:04 localhost pppd[2691]: remote IP address 63.152.12.248 May 30 23:06:04 localhost pppd[2691]: primary DNS address 205.171.3.65 May 30 23:06:04 localhost pppd[2691]: secondary DNS address 205.171.16.251 /etc/resolv.conf: domain localdomain #kppp temp entry nameserver 127.0.0.1 nameserver 205.171.3.65 nameserver 205.171.16.251 # ppp temp entry nameserver 205.171.3.65 # ppp temp entry nameserver 205.171.16.251 # ppp temp entry nameserver 205.171.3.65 #kppp temp entry nameserver 205.171.16.251 #kppp temp entry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 I doubt it......I get the usb hotplug error as well. I got it b4 wvdial worked and after. In linuxconf>Networking (or Network) you can tell it to use wvdial. It kinda messes with the format and adds its own entries to the wvdial.conf file, but you can change it back. Maybe trying it will kick something into place? Are you using usepeersdns? Should you be? Just another thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Made a correction above to where the option to start X is at during install :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c_m_f Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 one problem i found with the 9.1 install was a lack of 'back' buttons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 I think I know what Steve means..... I did by backup partition by mistake too. Luckily I'd copied everything over the network first :-) The problem seems to be its been simplified to the point where once you don't conform to the 'standard' machine you get in a real mess. It kinda lulls you into a false sense of security... The click and read just too late syndome takes over becuase you have little to do and concentrate less. I have installed a lot of Mandrake distro's but I found 9.1 the most frustrating. If you just do everything in expert I guess you'd be OK. The problem Steve points out is sending a newbie back to the dark side. Personally I think that pretty important and Mandrake not only affect Mandrake but it could put people of other linux distro's too. The polished install isn't really that good if you have some hardware issues and just gives a false sense of security. Like Steve I don't count myself a newbie... yet I wanted to try the new install with unpleasing results. Yet I was oncea newbie and slackware 2 was a steep learning curve. I did however manage it as a newbie .... The RTFM and manuals made it plain i'd be messing about for a while but I had a sense of achievement. Now I go through the install and feel dissapointed, I can't put my finger on why but I had expected something like Lindows or Lycoris but with the extra toys in Mandrake. And I disabled autologin but wanted to boot directly into the dm. It let me deselect the user but didn't book into RL5?? OK its no big deal but it should work.... Has anyone definitivly got USB 2.0 working by the way !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest henderrob Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 I just installed 9.1 and am know listening to Thelonious Monk Live Jazz on XMMS and cruising here using Mozilla on the Gnome desktop. Funny thing was when I tried listening while on the KDE desktop using Goboodle, the music would stutter and stop. No problem on XMMS. I think I prefer the KDE and KMail but I'll try both desktops and Mozilla and Evolution for a while before I decide which to stay with.. The fonts in Konqueror are really nice compared to Mozilla. I'm a newbie so I'll be using the desktops for a while and then I will work through 'Linux Cookbook' by Michael Stutz and 'Linux eTudes' by David Tancig. Loved 8.2 and loving 9.1 but dual booting with XP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted June 5, 2003 Report Share Posted June 5, 2003 one problem i found with the 9.1 install was a lack of 'back' buttons. This is what I meant. If it all works then fine but once you get in a mess it isn't well thought out. Just a bit of 'exotic hardware' or error on reading the CD's is enough to leave you having overwritten partitions (perhaps correctly). I reinstalled on my problem machine in expert text and got much farther but the Xserver is still refusing to load. Its not a big deal, hell I remember Slackware 2.0 and I can happily just recompile XFree from source but then I was trying to use the installer. I managed some better media this time, my boxed set CD's were full of errors and not even round. The edges are all rough. Anyway I managed to pick up a magazine 3 disk copy yesterday for 5Euros and I can read all the CD's. (I can't copy the old ones without errors). I had hoped they'd contain the new packages .... it seems not so I still have however many Gigs of updates to download. I see lots of people including newbies installed first time. I would count myself as fairly seasoned and perhaps the sucessful installs without the updates havn't included the deps problems I saw. Same goes for the 'this isn't supposed to happen message' when I try RPMDRAKE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Scrimpshire Posted June 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Frustratingly, I have had to uninstall 9.1 and go back to 8.1. My filesystem kept getting corrupted and I would loose stuff and not be able to save anything there again. My default profile in Netscape is an example. ggggrrrrrrrrrrrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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