ramfree17 Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 basing on the posts, then i would say yes. basing on my (1 week) experience then i would say no as i havent encountered anything yet (knocking on wood). ciao! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JaseP Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 So you haven't experienced any of the problems that others have faced??? I'm left wondering if those problems are truely earth-shattering or whether they are just unique to people with funky configurations?!?! My suspiscions are that the issues people have with it are really over-blown, particularly given the results of the one review poll, which are overwhelmingly positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ndeb Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 I'm left wondering if those problems are truely earth-shattering or whether they are just unique to people with funky configurations?!?!You realy think that the installer hang problem described in detail in (experienced and investigated by at least three people in that thread alone) http://www.mandrakeusers.org/viewtopic.php?t=3863 is due to "funky configurations" ? Just to let you know I have not had this sort of problems in LM 8.1/8.2/9.0. And you should have a look at mandrake bugzilla to get an idea of so many critical bugs just lying unattended. And add to that the huge update for LM9.1 for mandrake's own tools. The thing is most people do not investigate various possible configurations to produce bugs. They report problems only when they get hit. That does not mean the bugs do not exist. The reason for that is a hurried release: an RC3 being relabelled final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emh Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 I'll first state that I haven't tried this myself. (still on 9.0 with the latest Mandrake kernel, haven't felt a need to upgrade yet) However, everything I've read states that 9.1 was much better than its predecessors, in both usability and bug-ness (for lack of a better word, made up or otherwise....). Not having looked at the bug list myself (where can I see this list?), are these 80% of unconfirmed bugs unconfirmed simply because they are in software that isn't used by the majority of users? I would think it's a better idea to concentrate on those that would affect the majority of users. Now, if they are in the everyday software, then my point is moot, but otherwise, perhaps this is something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramfree17 Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 So you haven't experienced any of the problems that others have faced??? The thing is most people do not investigate various possible configurations to produce bugs. They report problems only when they get hit. both right. im not getting hit because i dont use the tools that have updates. checkout this post of mine to better explain why. i dont get to use my pc much lately so i expect to get hit somewhere down the road. but for now my 9.1 is performing better than 9.0 in terms of my daily use. the only bug i have encountered so far is gnucash segfaulting but i think that has something to do with guile. like i said, a boon for others, a bane for some. ciao! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fubar::chi Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 OK, which begs the question,... Are the fixes going to be on the released/boxed copy CDs or are they already being printed??? and,... Does the update feature still pretty much suck??? no the update feature does not suck. it isn't perfect and there will be little "niggly bits" buts it's a heckuvalot better than something like say a win98 -> XP upgrade. I've done them both and the 9.0 -> 9.1 (i used rc version) was better than win2win upgrade. I was testing out the upgrade feature for cooker however (had no probs) and didn't use it when installing 9.1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fubar::chi Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 The most disappointing thing is... approx. 50 updates so far... approx. 25 updates are MDK developed software... I agree there were many bugs discovered recently... But half the updates were about MDKs own software... Disappointing... We shoul dbe doing more testing for MDK and they should give us more time to test and report bugs. I totally agree with you on the mdk updates bits. the mandrake galaxy and mdkkdm were horribly rushed bits of software imho and should have been tested further. as for the rest. Sec updates which mdk can't do much about, (~10 i think) and then your normal exploits. utf support was also rushed i think and i'm going to steer as far away from it as possible :: jocasta is in mdk 9.1 perfection :) :: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fubar::chi Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 The thing is most people do not investigate various possible configurations to produce bugs. They report problems only when they get hit. That does not mean the bugs do not exist. There really is no other way to do it, do you expect mdk's q&a to go out and configure every single possible combo possible. it just isn't going to happen. The reason for that is a hurried release: an RC3 being relabelled final. actually the reason for that is people not reporting bugs as soon as they get them. i've seen people on the cooker mailing list reporting bugs in the beta isos when the rc's had already been released. Another thing you are leaving out is that most of the bugs you see there are carried over. Someone gets a bug fixed and instead of being marked as resolved it gets left there. When i installed 9.1 I had the latest cooker updates and my bugs were unresolved. After starting up 9.1 my bugs miraculously disappeared (confirming a suspicion that the bugs were caused by old files in /home which I cleaned prior to installing). I made a point to go and mark my bug reports as resolved as soon as i installed 9.1 and found them gone not everyone does that. As soon as the release comes and there probs are solved they unsubscribe to the mailing list and that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fubar::chi Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 So you haven't experienced any of the problems that others have faced??? Except for nvidia related problems which i found out was the fault of my mobo, not a one. MDK is perfect for me. I started experiencing problems with starting mdk apps when i enabled dead-keys last night but i knew enough about utf probs to disable them. I'm in a little place called perfection right now. uptime 3 days and counting last crash was caused by playing ut which as i said is a mobo prob (don't buy ecs, they suck). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ndeb Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 Not having looked at the bug list myself (where can I see this list?), are these 80% of unconfirmed bugs unconfirmed simply because they are in software that isn't used by the majority of users?I was referring to bugs I myself reported. The number 80% is approximate. The bugs cover all types:install problems sound configuration video/X configuration GUI (KDE) problems mandrake configuration tools kernel related (supermount) network configuration Obviously, I have not left much out. I would think it's a better idea to concentrate on those that would affect the majority of users.How am I supposed to know what software is is used by majority/minority of users ? This is not the correct attitude of an user. An user should report a bug he/she experiences without worrying about whether the same bug has been experienced by 99.99% of other users. Its the developers' job to decide whether the bug is worth fixing and popularity of the bug is one factor that may be considered in deciding that. no the update feature does not suck.Why do people fail to realize that:I cannot reproduce a bug != the bug does cannot affect another user Do a search in this forum and u will know that upgrade is a big pain. And comparing it to MS windows upgrade is pointless. We want mandrake linux to work well. There really is no other way to do it, do you expect mdk's q&a to go out and configure every single possible combo possible. it just isn't going to happen.No. I expect individual users to do that. And many dedicated users do that. actually the reason for that is people not reporting bugs as soon as they get them. i've seen people on the cooker mailing list reporting bugs in the beta isos when the rc's had already been released.Thats a very misleading view. Have you also counted the number of bugs that were reported right on time ? That number would be pretty high too. Another thing you are leaving out is that most of the bugs you see there are carried over. Someone gets a bug fixed and instead of being marked as resolved it gets left there.My experience is to the contrary. I have seen bugs being carried from 9.1rc1 to 9.1rc2 to 9.1final because they could be reproduced in each case. In addition, I have seen bugs recklessly being marked as "fixed" and then reappearing in the very next release. When i installed 9.1 I had the latest cooker updates and my bugs were unresolved. After starting up 9.1 my bugs miraculously disappeared (confirming a suspicion that the bugs were caused by old files in /home which I cleaned prior to installing). I made a point to go and mark my bug reports as resolved as soon as i installed 9.1 and found them gone not everyone does that. As soon as the release comes and there probs are solved they unsubscribe to the mailing list and that's it.You are missing the point. Cooker is unstable and we need stable bug fixes. Fixing stuff in cooker helps only those few who can risk breaking their system. Installing from cooker may fix a few bugs but will always create a bunch of new ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emh Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 How am I supposed to know what software is is used by majority/minority of users ? This is not the correct attitude of an user. An user should report a bug he/she experiences without worrying about whether the same bug has been experienced by 99.99% of other users. Its the developers' job to decide whether the bug is worth fixing and popularity of the bug is one factor that may be considered in deciding that. This was exactly the point I was getting at. The developers would concentrate first and foremost on the bugs that would be encountered most frequently by the majority of users. Therefore, the ones that were reported the most often would get priority attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ndeb Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 This was exactly the point I was getting at. The developers would concentrate first and foremost on the bugs that would be encountered most frequently by the majority of users. Therefore, the ones that were reported the most often would get priority attention.Many of the bugs I have reported have been confirmed by 3rd parties. Besides, thats one of the many criteria. There are other criteria like how crtitcal the bug is. A system installation bug is much more important than a GUI font bug. Another example is the security updates that appear constantly. How many regular users actually face these security-related bugs ? Actually, very few, because it requires lots of skills to exploit/expose them. Inspite of that, these are fixed first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JaseP Posted April 16, 2003 Report Share Posted April 16, 2003 So,... I'm strongly considering upgrading to 9.1 from 8.2, specifically for advanced power management support (I currently must hit the power and reset buttons simultaneously to get the machine to shut off), and updated KDE/Gnome. Are you people saying that I should hold off until 9.2 or something??? Keep in mind that I was effected by the 8.2 AMD K6 bug and worked around it with the patch without problem. I also tend to tweak and fix my own video problems myself (I custom-edit my XFree86Config-4 file). I don't use server stuff, although I may want to use SAMBA in the future to connect my Win XPee laptop (a business requirement, not my choice) to my home machine via ethernet to access the web and printing. I use CUPS for printing, StarOffice for word Processing, and Konqueror is my default web browser. I'm not concerned with anti-aliased fonts (I use an LCD monitor w/ a 15 pin VGA connector) Would going to 9.1 be a mistake for me??? Suggestions??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ndeb Posted April 17, 2003 Report Share Posted April 17, 2003 More consequences of a rush-hour release: http://www.mandrakeusers.org/viewtopic.php?t=4540 http://www.mandrakeusers.org/viewtopic.php?t=4539 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ral Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 I don't know. Is it just mandrake. RedHat 9 has 38 updates so far. Maybe the six month release cycle is just too short to do proper testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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