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Guest joehill

One Linux Over All? NO!!!!!

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Guest joehill
Your statements about Cuba are absurd.

 

why? do you have information which contradicts mine?

 

Of course the ideal of any ideology works in theory. And, as pointed out, the execution of the ideal is where the trouble begins!! A discussion of the pro's and con's of the ideal might find a course to steer by, but exploring the problems of execution is an inexhaustable stream of point -counter-point. Since no "system" has ever been executed properly, (an argument used by all) then presenting arguments of how the execution goes astray is mute. It does remind me of anarchist thinking, though! :lol:

 

Right, it is an issue of change, of evolving, finding what system works best with the way people are. The big debate really is about what is human nature. The propaganda from the church and the state tells us we are flawed greedy murderous animals, despite all the available evidence.

 

When a ship is guided over water, it is off course more than half the time. The purpose of the course is to "correct" the direction of the ship. I think that the ideological ideals should serve this same purpose.

 

well, ya got a lotta metaphors, a little lite on the facts.

 

Concerning the judiciary, I find that every ideological flavor in the US objects to some aspect of the judiciary gone awry. For this reason, I must admit that it shows the courts are less affected by popular trends, and are doing a better job of staying on course than the other government branches.

 

what?

 

Now, if this remark is still about the failure of Al Gore to win the election to the presidency, well, that's sour grapes! :wink:

 

mmmm, I don't recall mentioning that...really to me it makes about as much difference between Gore and Bush as between Coke and Pepsi.

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joehill, you didn't mention the judiciary, I was responding to several posts.

 

Because passions flare where interest is high, metaphores are useful in making points without goring anybody's ox. Perhaps I got an ox anyway?:lol:

 

As with many issues, stats are graet in the absence of experience. I have a freind who "escaped" Cuba who tells a different story. Since I have never been to Cuba, I choose to believe my friend.

 

I take exception to your notion that "religion" and what ever pet institution one happens to be against is the culprit who "tells us" what we believe. I do not fall into the victim mentality, and believe that people try to do "good". But people fail to do good. I am not suggesting that people do not regret their errors and indescretions, but they are there nevertheless. Most who believe that people do good arrive at that conclusion by changing the definitions of good behaviour. How do you define good?

 

You do not remind me so much of an anarchist. but rather a continental theorist. The social system must continuously be torn apart and reassembled for improvement and evoloution into greatness. Marx, of course, is the source of such thinking, although he did not phrase it quite the same way. For Marx, the true reveloution would suffice. But the continentalist, or the critical theorist, the system must always be in a state of destruction and rebuilding.

 

EDIT: There should always be a selection of Linux distributions :wink:

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Guest joehill
Because passions flare where interest is high, metaphores are useful in making points without goring anybody's ox. Perhaps I got an ox anyway?:lol:

 

ox? anyway, in your case the metaphors were vain attempts at avoiding the empirical evidence I presented, you are no T.S. Eliot.

 

As with many issues, stats are graet in the absence of experience. I have a freind who "escaped" Cuba who tells a different story. Since I have never been to Cuba, I choose to believe my friend.

 

Wow, I have the World Health Organization, the United Nations Commission on Children, and the Organization on Cooperation and Development to back me up. I should have found a friend from Cuba instead. LOL.

 

I take exception to your notion that "religion" and what ever pet institution one happens to be against is the culprit who "tells us" what we believe. I do not fall into the victim mentality, and believe that people try to do "good". But people fail to do good. I am not suggesting that people do not regret their errors and indescretions, but they are there nevertheless. Most who believe that people do good arrive at that conclusion by changing the definitions of good behaviour. How do you define good?

 

again, you are focusing on one word I used (church) to avoid addressing my point.

 

You do not remind me so much of an anarchist. but rather a continental theorist. The social system must continuously be torn apart and reassembled for improvement and evoloution into greatness. Marx, of course, is the source of such thinking, although he did not phrase it quite the same way. For Marx, the true reveloution would suffice. But the continentalist, or the critical theorist, the system must always be in a state of destruction and rebuilding.

 

do not presume to tell me what I am or what I believe. You are rude and obnoxious for doing so, and I daresay an arrogant sophist who replaces facts with vague assumptions and dogma. You have not addressed one of my factual arguments, except to mention some anecdote about a guy you knew from Cuba.

 

I apologize for sounding annoyed, Ixthusdan, but having a discussion with someone who responds to valid points with vague and entangled sophistry and has the gall to tell me about my belief system, well...it's kinda frustrating and futile. I have a five year honours degree in Political and Economic Theory, I have read first hand accounts of the experiences of people involved in development and globalization issues, I have seen the results of capitalist "quality" first hand. I am sorry I do not have the patience to discuss this with you, you sound like a very thoughtful person.

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:lol:

Well, joehill, it is indeed interesting that you have an inability to discuss what you believe with me without controling your emotion, but such is life. I have apparently inadvertantly gored all of your oxes!!! :wink:

 

I shall be blunt, which I believe is what your complaint is.

 

The statistics that you reference are from data that I reject. The organizations you sight are not factually driven, and are agenda driven, which causes the data to fall into question. I also believe that experience is a strong consideration to reality.

 

It is clear to me that your credentials far out weigh the facts in your mind, and your irritation with me is my apparent lack of credentials. I was not trying to lable you as you have labled me. Feel free to call me any lable you choose; as for myself, I am a simple Christian man, with strong beliefs that I have arrived at through life experience and study. I am no doubt interfearing with your world view and the assumptions you have made about people.

 

And I still think that multiple distributions is an indication of good solid capitalism.

 

:lol: Pzatch

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Guest joehill
:lol:  

Well, joehill, it is indeed interesting that you have an inability to discuss

 

you did not discuss. you prevaricated, avoided, and provided no factual evidence, from personal experience of otherwise (except for the guy from Cuba).

 

The statistics that you reference are from data that I reject. The organizations you sight are not factually driven, and are agenda driven, which causes the data to fall into question.

 

so it's all just a big conspiracy by thousands of people from all over the world to undermine American freedom and capitalism. The OECD is run by Maoists no doubt, the World Health Organization has been infiltrated by Al Qaida, and the U.N. is going to invade America and implement one world government, blah blah blah. Been seein any black helicopters lately?

 

 

It is clear to me that your credentials far out weigh the facts in your mind

 

LOL, I'd be offended but this is coming from someone who spells worse than a third grader (in Cuba).

 

and your irritation with me is my apparent lack of credentials.

 

no, my irritation was with your apparent lack of judgement, intervening in a factual discussion with some tripe about the evils of Communism.

 

I was not trying to lable you

 

yes you were. do I need to give you the quote?

 

as you have labled me.

 

what, as a "thoughtful person"? How cruel of me. I called you arrogant because you presumed to have some insight into my personal intellectual state.

 

as for myself, I am a simple Christian man, with strong beliefs that I have arrived at through life experience and study.

 

no problem, but please, if you are going to engage in a discussion, show some judgement as to the nature of that discussion. "Well, I just think you are wrong because I believe this [insert dogma here]" is not an appropriate reply to a thead that is based on empirical arguments.

 

I am no doubt interfearing with your world view and the assumptions you have made about people.

 

don't worry, this was lightweight compared to what I am used to. and I don't make assumptions about people. I have arrived at a certain view of people's nature through study and observance.

 

And I still think that multiple distributions is an indication of good solid capitalism.

 

open source software became what it is despite capitalism, not because of it. If it weren't for thousands of dedicated and non-profit-motivated individuals Linux wouldn't exist. The information economy isn't even capitalist anymore if you want to get right down to it. Capitalism, by definition, locates the mode of production within the monetary system. Very quickly the primary mode of production in the west will be information and not capital. We are seeing the same battles fought now as when the industrial revolution began to erode the power of the landowners, land being the primary means of production up until the early 1800s.

 

anyway, that's enough history for today.

 

 

 

:lol: Pzatch

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Hey, it took me many years to learn how to misspell! :lol: Don't I get any credit for that?

 

Well, the discussion does seem to be getting personal and flame-like, which really is not my style, regardless of what you think of me. For clarity, discussions posted in a forum such as this are open to whoever. I believe the pm system works well for discussions that are not open to the likes of me. :mrgreen:

 

Peace, joehill.

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Guest joehill
Hey, it took me many years to learn how to misspell! :lol:  Don't I get any credit for that?

 

nope. It betrays a lack of attention to detail and intellectual laziness.

 

Well, the discussion does seem to be getting personal and flame-like, which really is not my style

 

really?

 

It is clear to me that your credentials far out weigh the facts in your mind

 

Your statements about Cuba are absurd.

 

For clarity, discussions posted in a forum such as this are open to whoever.

 

I asked you to show some *judgement* about how and where you reply. Is that too much to ask? If people are engaged in a discussion based on facts (which you neither possess nor seem to desire), why would you wade in with your "wise old man of the mountains" schtick about oxen and ships? If you cannot confront the facts I presented you with with something other than what you heard on the 700 Club, then don't bother.

 

I believe the pm system works well for discussions that are not open to the likes of me. :mrgreen:

 

don't hold your breath.

 

Peace, joehill.

 

Don't try to come off as the Ghandi character here, it doesn't fool me, and it should fool no one else. Your utter contempt for the people who are really trying to make a positive difference in this world betrays you.

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like i said, i didnt follow this thread. but reading a few lines led me to believe that this is indeed going to the path of a word-match that can get ugly. either respect each other's opinion or slug it out personally (pm, email, irc, phone alls).

 

im not taking sides but please no more remarks against each other. the world has enough conflicts. :)

 

and im no gandhi character either. i just hang-out here.

 

ciao!

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Guest joehill

this has nothing to do with respecting anyone's opinion. I couldn't care less what his opinion is. But do NOT come on here calling my points "absurd", questioning my intellectual honesty, or completely ignore my attempts at exchanging FACTS and expect me to not respond in kind.

 

I am a generous and compassionate person at heart, but if you show me disrespect or question my integrity, I will call you on it every time, I will be relentless, and I will not apologize for it.

 

Ixthusdan has to learn that "well, that's just stupid" is not an opinion, it's the response of a five year old.

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Guest joehill
Yea!...what ramfree17 said....I don't want to have to lock a thread :roll:

 

furthermore, if I am not satisfied that I am held blameless in this affair, consider me a non-member.

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...

 

im not naming names as im not placing blames (hey, it rhymes! :mrgreen:). cant we just meet on a neutral point, respect each opinion even if we dont appreciate them, and stop with the assinine remarks? for pete's sake, this thread is even offtopic (i think. hey bvc, how come i have not seen mods exercising their power to splice threads? :mad:).

 

lets just settle things down a bit. and join me in heckling the mods, admins and aru. :twisted:

 

ciao!

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furthermore, if I am not satisfied that I am held blameless in this affair, consider me a non-member.

 

this is the first time that somebody complained for not being blamed. :)

 

and i hope this is not another 'im leaving post'. is it just me or is everybody experiencing loss of humor and increase in crankiness?

 

ciao!

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Guest joehill
respect each opinion even if we dont appreciate them,

 

as I said quite clearly, this is not about opinions. It is about Ixthusdan insulting me and calling my fact based arguments "absurd".

 

 

hey bvc, how come i have not seen mods exercising their power to splice threads? :mad:).

 

worse, where were the mods when Ixthusdan began this? All of a sudden when I call him on it it's a problem?

 

lets just settle things down a bit.

 

no, let's not. in fact, I want an aplology from Ixthusdan, and I want it made clear that such behaviour will be moderated as it is supposed to be.

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