HDD Jumpers - LILO Config - just curious

[Stanley H. Tweedle]

this is text i moved from a separate post.

 

i would like to tell you about the re=install process i experienced during an attempt to deal w/ an apparent mis-configuration of LILO (maybe), and how i experienced another "unusual" situation-- probably due to just "trying stuff".. stay if you can. leave if you don't have time. it's all good-- this is 90% commentary as there's no "system problem" here.

 

so i started over from scratch. this time i [chose the option to copy] the [Mandriva 2007 Free] installation CD's to the HDD. when configuring the LILO boot loader, i felt it was relevant to a thread i've got going at LQ.org about "installing around the ./home directory as an approach to "reinstalling" (or trying, Mandriva vs. Fedora due to YUM db issues, for example), so i decided to try putting the bootloader on the 'First part of the Root partition', option #2 instead of at the MBR . Completed the install and acted on the prompt to "restart" (remove install media etc).

 

just after the BIOS welcom screen when the HDD kicks in as bootdevice, i get a series of numbers (like 636363636363 for a couple of lines worth... not sure if those were the exact numbers by now as i didn't record it). i tried Disc01 rescue option on startup ** but couldn't figure out how to EDIT ** fstab [LILO?] because VIEW and VIM etc weren't recognized (or is it mtab?) [not sure, but this would be a great time to learn this detail!!]. (i've dealt w/ fstab before, trying to read a "slaved" ext2 drive w/ Fedora, so i've a little experience w/ it... just mentioning...)

 

tried help,etc. could NOT figure out how to VIEW a file from the [rescue] CLI (at ./tmp/mnt/dev/ wherever it was...) -- so, i went back to square-one once again. at the bootloader [if i recall correctly] i tried putting it on option one at the MBR, but this did NOT help.(see [1] below). this time-- i selected "Patch" (just guessing!) from the menu of Disc01 and chose to "Upgrade" instead of new install. this was apparently the RIGHT THING to do. :)

 

everthing went smoothly. i didn't have to reinstall the software a 3rd time ;)

this time i chose to install KDE just to be "on the safe side" as i plan to probably put stuff like kdewebdev on here, etc.

 

**[1]

i wonder if this issue might have truly been w/ the HDD itself because i had removed one of the jumpers-- playing w/ it as slave on XP (prior to ALL of this), and never put the jumper config back to "Master". so-- though i had my BIOS set to use this singular drive, the jumpers were still set to "slave". perhaps this is why things got "screwy" ? as in, "LILO was set okay, even as not installed on the MBR, but due to those jumpers-- it couldn't kick in"

i guess we'll never know, but i am curious about any input on THIS PARTICULAR issue (the placement of LILO vs the jumpers, and also-- about editing from the rescue mode-- how do i pull up a "Joe" for example?)

Edited March 14, 2007 by Stanley H. Tweedle

[mindwave]

heres a comment on your commentary.

 

I just built a new duocore desktop for my linux systems.

 

when i started I had Xandros4 as the 1st boot and the MDVPP2k7 on a seperate SATA drive.

 

well i tried a few 'experiments' and got to the point where NOTHING would boot properly.

 

ok, i had learned a long time ago to put DATA on one HD and OS and apps on another,

 

So i decided to start from scratch. reformat and reinstall EVERYTHING.

 

Its been a week, I have tried every different combination of EVERYTHING I can see and here's my question.

 

In my BIOS and in my actual HW setup I have IDE0 A = 120GB ATA HD IDE0 B = DVDRW

IDE1 A = 40GB ATA HD IDE2 B = 200GB ATA HD

 

I also have a Promise SUPER ATA 133 controller pci card installed w/ IDE3 A = 160GB ATA HD and IDE3 B = 320GB ATA HD

 

The MB has a SATA controller, adn I've never used one before, so i was thrilled to find that I could use ATA and SATA drives in the same box! As you might imagine I'm a data junkie.

 

SO SATA 0 A = 160GB SATA HD

 

EVERY TIME I INSTALL and tell the setup tp take over a HD the list looks like this:

 

40GB ATA HD = HDA

200GB ATA HD = HDB

160GB ATA HD = HDC

320GB ATA HD = HDD

120GB ATA HD = HDE

160GB SATA HD = SDA

 

The BIOS says the 1st HD = 120GB ATA HD

 

When I setup my boot config I tell the BIOS to go to the DVDRW 1st THEN the 120GB ATA HD

 

BUT when I install MDV or X4 they BOTH have labled the 40GB ATA HD as HDA.

 

Is this an OLD lable from a previous partition? or is THIS part of the issue thats causing me to pull my hair out?

[Stanley H. Tweedle]

EVERY TIME I INSTALL and tell the setup tp take over a HD the list looks like this:

40GB ATA HD=HDA...

The BIOS says the 1st HD = 120GB ATA HD...

when I install MDV or X4 they BOTH have labled the 40GB ATA HD as HDA.

i'm kinda confused. don't get me wrong-- i realize i'm not the best at clear, concise posting... but i'm having difficulty w/ what you're addressing here.

 

i understand that you can not boot into Mandriva [and another O/S]?

 

but i i've interpreted your text as though you've contradicted yourself: ie. ".. i install and tell the setup to... 40GB ATA HDD = HDA", and finally you ask why it's labeling it as so?

 

In one sentence, what is at issue?

 

likewise-- what do you want?

[mindwave]

In one sentence, what is at issue?

 

likewise-- what do you want?

its more of a quirk and a WHY than anything else.

 

I would asume, that since the 1st HD in my box is a 120GB ATA, and the BIOS sees it as the 1st HD in the BOX and the BIOS is told to boot from that drive (after the DVDRW) that IT should be seen as HDA. But instead all versions of Linux that I install on that BOX, lable this 120GB as something OTHER than HDA (sometimes HDE sometimes HDB but never HDA).

 

All the jumpers are set correctly, but the lables are throwing me off

[Ixthusdan]

For clarity, hda is the master device on your primary ide channel. hdb is the slave device on your primary ide channel. hdc is the master device on your secondary ide channel, and hdd is the slave device on your secondary ide channel. scsi and sata devices show up as sdx, and generally follow your motherboard's sata channel lables.

 

If you have additional ide channels, the board native channels will be a,b,c&d, and then the add-in device will pick up the next letters. Older boards set the primary master as the boot device, but new boards can select any channel for boot purposes.

[mindwave]

For clarity, hda is the master device on your primary ide channel. hdb is the slave device on your primary ide channel. hdc is the master device on your secondary ide channel, and hdd is the slave device on your secondary ide channel. scsi and sata devices show up as sdx, and generally follow your motherboard's sata channel lables.

 

If you have additional ide channels, the board native channels will be a,b,c&d, and then the add-in device will pick up the next letters. Older boards set the primary master as the boot device, but new boards can select any channel for boot purposes.

 

you know that part has always been what i thought but now you confirmed it.

 

and THAT is exactly why I'm confused.

 

my 120GB is the FIRST HD on the FIRST IDE channel, and yet somehow it gets labled HDE1

 

 

and yet the 1st HD on my SECOND IDE Channel gets the lable HDA1, now these HD's have been used in other systems so my question is, are the lables that MDV is seeing lables that are impressed on the drives from previous installations or are they how the CURRENT install of MDV is seeing the HD's

 

and IF this is how MDV sees the drives currently with what it believes are accurate lables, doesnt this fly in the face of what we all have been taught about the naming scheme?

 

any have any ideas?

 

 

j

[Ixthusdan]

Linux does not "see the drives" like windows. (There is no "c") Neither do the drives get a "label." Linux uses the bios to identify a location. For example, hda is a location which corresponds to the master device on the primary ide channel. It is not a created name like in windows. The partitions are identified from the partition table of th device and occur in a numerical order. Numbers 1-4 are used for primary partition lables, where other numbers can be used for extended partition labels. So, hda4 is the fourth primary partition on the master device of the primary ide channel. If you saw something like hda7, then that would be an extended partition, although without further details I could not tell the location of the extended partition on the drive.

 

BTW, the first hard drive is not what is meant. ide channels have a master and slave device, offering 2 devices per channel.

 

Please post you /etc/fstab

 

Things that affect this convention would be: if you change boot order in the bios and the bios offers this sort of identification(doubtful); you have a rare ide RAID device in you system, although I really think that Linux would simply identify with sda, sdb, sdc, etc.; or you have an additional ide channel device in the system as an add-on. I did this in a repair in which the ide secondary stopped functioning and I installed another card, although today I would install an sata card.

[Stanley H. Tweedle]

just after the BIOS welcom screen when the HDD kicks in as bootdevice, i get a series of numbers (like 636363636363 for a couple of lines worth... i tried [mandriva 2007 free] Disc01 rescue option on startup ** but couldn't figure out how to EDIT ** fstab [LILO?]...

 

what about the curious numbers after BIOS on main boot device activation... when LILO / MBR / something was apparently not working properly?

 

and how does one edit files from CLI at the Rescue prompt (assuming options are different from other CLI prompts)? as "vim", "view", and "joe" were not recognized

 

so, i went back to square-one.... selected "Patch" (just guessing!) from the menu of [mandriva free 2007] Disc01 and chose to "Upgrade" instead of new install. this was apparently the RIGHT THING to do. :)

<!-- snip + edited -->

i wonder if the un-bootable issue might have truly been w/ the HDD itself, not NOT in my LILO config-- because ... though i had my BIOS set to use the singular drive on HDA, the jumpers were still set to "slave" ... perhaps this is why things got "screwy" ?

 

does this seem like perhaps it was okay to choose "option #2" (putting LILO not w/ the MBR), but due to those jumpers-- it couldn't kick in? when i fixed the jumpers, i chose the "Patch" option, -- AND the MBR partition, so i can't say from experience that anything other than the MBR option will work here, so this has become a curiousity.

[AussieJohn]

When you get those repeat numbers at boot it usualy means that the MBR has been corrupted. This generally occurs because lilo first seems to start the boot loader install onto the mbr before the user chooses somewhere else so the mbr ends up being corrupted.

Lilo seems to be more guilty of this than grub. That is why I suggested Grub in future in my post on your other thread.

In fact the next Mandriva, which is version2007-1Spring, now has Grub as the default bootloader. When using a single or dual boot there is no real reason to not install the bootloader to the mbr. Only when I install a test OS and don't want to change the mbr do I then I install the bootloader to the floppy disc.

Machines lacking floppy drives can soon do it to a removeable flash drive (maybe already can...I just don't know).

 

Dual booting Windows and Linux is dead simple. Just install Windows first on the first HDD first partition then Linux on subsequent partitions on that hdd or on the next hdd if there is one. Dual booting two Linux OSs is a little more fiddley but still pretty easy.

 

Cheers. John.