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Gowator

Competition idea?

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I guess this is just for fun but I have an idea for OpenSource and eating dogfood ...

I constantly see stuff for opensource apps (like themes) using non opensource tools...

Sometimes its because the person making the theme knows the software better abd sometimes the opensource equivalent might not be quite as good...

 

I got nothing against people making Joomla templates using dreamweaver and/or photoshop... Im just thinking it would be interesting to see where the limits are :D

 

So the idea is any theme, skin, manipulation, desktop etc. you want for an opensource app. using ONLY opensource tools... (KDE/gome whatever)

 

Lets see how many are interested.... and then list what we needed to accomplish it .. what we tried and what was good and what was bad.

 

Please no cheating (i.e. writing the file in photoshop then opening and save as in GiMP etc... it defeats the object which is to push the limits of opensource....

 

Equally if you do run into a barrier I guess you don't need to restrict yourself totally... go ahead and use photoshop or whatever for the operations you NEED and just be honest :D indeed I guess we can have categories and still give prizes (huge kudos on MUB :D) for actually finding the limit...

 

i.e. Go ahead and use photoshop and say WHY.... and if noone can find an opensource way to do it you can win the category "over the limit"

suggested categories would be

"pushing the limit"

"over the limit"

"outstanding artwork"

"the most cunning use of an opensource tool"

 

points can be given in the following areas ?

"most inventive use" (if you can do it in a windows opensource app under wine for example)

"using the max of the feature set"

"overcoming restrictions (like GiMP's 8 bit color space)

"artistic merit"

 

 

So what do you guys think....

Im thinking personally I could revisit some things I personally cheated on for convenience and have another go in OpenSource apps.

The idea came when listing the software I use for my website ... and what I used .. its easy to say 100% opensource but I edited a font in a Windows app for instance when I could have maybe done it opensource... and I then used this font in the GiMP... to create the banner.

 

So who is on to explore the boundaries for OpeSource apps ?

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What are we supposed to make now? :unsure:

 

the two sites i've written myself (http://theory-music.com being one) have all been done in open source apps (gimp + screem).

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What are we supposed to make now? :unsure:

 

the two sites i've written myself (http://theory-music.com being one) have all been done in open source apps (gimp + screem).

sorry busy few days...........

 

Anyway... Cool .. I think the next step is you just post ...:D say which tools for what and what you liked and what was a challenge.

 

Here is a good example of non opensource tools; ironic isn't it?

 

http://www.opensourcematters.org/

 

I found this out after trying to make my website 100% OpenSource...

I really struggled with Joomla and had to create my own template from scratch because templates with opensource tools just don't seem to exist?

 

Same goes fo a lot of KDE/Gnome themes.... so I statred wondering... is it just me or are mostof these made using non opensource apps?

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Isn't joomla open-source then? I was reading their website, it seems to be so :unsure:

 

Or at least it says:

 

f you want to distribute, copy or modify Joomla!, you are welcome to do so under the terms of the GNU General Public License. If you are unfamiliar with this license, you might want to read 'How To Apply These Terms To Your Program' and the 'GNU General Public License FAQ'

 

from here: http://www.joomla.org/content/view/5/6/

 

hope it's easy as it seems they make out, I might give it a go.

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Isn't joomla open-source then? I was reading their website, it seems to be so :unsure:

 

Or at least it says:

 

f you want to distribute, copy or modify Joomla!, you are welcome to do so under the terms of the GNU General Public License. If you are unfamiliar with this license, you might want to read 'How To Apply These Terms To Your Program' and the 'GNU General Public License FAQ'

 

from here: http://www.joomla.org/content/view/5/6/

 

hope it's easy as it seems they make out, I might give it a go.

 

Yes, its open source... yes its very cool and yes its simple...

BUT....

That is not the same as a 100% Opensource/openstandards website....

Take tymes website... he's hosting flash ... therefore the site is not available to everyone using only a browser. You can't acces the content without using closed source plug-ins... (not a criticism, I guess the reason for the site was hosting these tracks, Im just pointing it out and I have non Opensource stuff on my site like photo's)

 

Take www.opensourcematters.org

Work out why the site is NOT opensource .... (clue download the image)

 

So most Joomla templates have used non opensource tools to create them... again fair enough but I wanted my website to be 100% opensource/open standards...

 

The only part I have problems with is photo's....its impossible to have opensource photo's unless you scan them since the camera firmware is NOT opensource. Digital cameras do not take jpegs... they convert the CCD info to jpegs.. The closest you can get is a camera supporting openraw and then use opensource converters to write jpg's... these exist but they are crap for professional quality prints... GiMP is impossible to use since it works in 8bit color space .. its fine for websites but absolutely unusable for any pro quality photo's... my saved TIFF's are 25-30MB each with compression ... for 16bit TIFF's .. Gimp can't even open them without disguarding 90% of the detail... so if I host my photo's my website can't be 100% opensource...

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Take tymes website... he's hosting flash ... therefore the site is not available to everyone using only a browser. You can't acces the content without using closed source plug-ins...
The player I use was the best thing available for my needs, and it is actually open source although flash may not be. The point of the site is to promote the band, and to do that I needed a player on the site. If you know of any players that don't require a closed source plugin - please, point me in their direction :P

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Take tymes website... he's hosting flash ... therefore the site is not available to everyone using only a browser. You can't acces the content without using closed source plug-ins...
The player I use was the best thing available for my needs, and it is actually open source although flash may not be. The point of the site is to promote the band, and to do that I needed a player on the site. If you know of any players that don't require a closed source plugin - please, point me in their direction :P

There are a few opensource steamers that use ogg and mp3 (which can be made opensource even if that's in a gray area) I used to have one setup but can't remember which ....

 

Anyway, its not a criticism... but the idea is exploring the boundaries of opensource ... if flash is really better for your needs then we hit a boundary... else perhaps someone will suggest something equally good. (this is really what Im hoping for ... :D in general not just flash )

 

@wakish

Download the image then use file , if you can't work it out Ill tell you :D but its a bit of fun :D

another hint: http://www.opensourcematters.org/templates...matters/images/

file <filename>

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@Gowator:

 

Yeah, i see what you mean... but it's inevitable if you want to produce something of good quality ;)

 

And i wonder: "Is there any use of windows programs while making a distro?".. i guess the answer is Yes?

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@Gowator:

 

Yeah, i see what you mean... but it's inevitable if you want to produce something of good quality ;)

 

And i wonder: "Is there any use of windows programs while making a distro?".. i guess the answer is Yes?

Well the Joomla logo is pretty cool... pretty hard in firworks probably let alone GIMP but the OpenSourceMatters logo is ... well you don't even need anything as sophisticated as GIMP so just lazyness??? or someone more likely not considering ??

 

Its funny in a way because many of the OS fanatics are OS in a certain area.... some of the people doing the raw image converters etc. for digital cameras think its the most importanthing but possibly host their site on IIS? OpenSourceMatters aka Joomla think OS apache, perl etc. but haven't considered dreamweaver or fireworks as not OS?

 

My quest for a PURE OS site is based on eating dogfood... I beleive its possible to get a perfectly acceptable site using OS only tools .. but its freakin hard!!!! :D

 

This is OS EXCEPT the photo's and possible the get firefox logo (haven't checked it) http://linuxmigrations.hd.free.fr/glutenfree/

same here except photo's http://linuxmigrations.hd.free.fr/rico_art/

 

This one with the exception of the sample data pictures which are just sample data and will be dumped is 100% OS... all the logo's/sidebars etc. all in GIMP... (work in progress Im learning to write templates for the beta)

http://linuxmigrations.hd.free.fr/joomla1.5-nightly/

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Download the image then use file , if you can't work it out Ill tell you :D but its a bit of fun :D

another hint: http://www.opensourcematters.org/templates...matters/images/

file <filename>

You've lost me. If I download the file osm_header.png, all I see is this:

$ file Desktop/osm_header.png
Desktop/osm_header.png: PNG image data, 362 x 68, 8-bit colormap, non-interlaced
$

Are you saying there's a way to tell which application generated this png, and that in this case it's a non open-source application?

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Download the image then use file , if you can't work it out Ill tell you :D but its a bit of fun :D

another hint: http://www.opensourcematters.org/templates...matters/images/

file <filename>

You've lost me. If I download the file osm_header.png, all I see is this:

$ file Desktop/osm_header.png
Desktop/osm_header.png: PNG image data, 362 x 68, 8-bit colormap, non-interlaced
$

Are you saying there's a way to tell which application generated this png, and that in this case it's a non open-source application?

Yes, but obviously not file :D (it works on avi's though)

If you right click in konqueror, properties and metadata it shows up so its obviously possible from a simple command...

Anyway, in this case it says MacroMedia Fireworks which seems somewhat ironic ... given the text of the graphic :D

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all you need is vim. surely joomla's templates are plain text? If so it's just a matter of making a page design in CSS/HTML, and then putting joomla's relevant template matter into the file. You could even use nvu to make the design, and just use vim to add the template stuff. The joomla docs should cover it.

 

as for creative stuff, that's more how creative you are, rather than the tools you use. if you have the idea, you ought to be able to construct it in krita or gimp.

 

James

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all you need is vim. surely joomla's templates are plain text? If so it's just a matter of making a page design in CSS/HTML, and then putting joomla's relevant template matter into the file. You could even use nvu to make the design, and just use vim to add the template stuff. The joomla docs should cover it.

 

as for creative stuff, that's more how creative you are, rather than the tools you use. if you have the idea, you ought to be able to construct it in krita or gimp.

 

James

Ah.. yes and no.... ;)

indeed this is what Im doing... except Im using Quanta instead of cos its cool and has nice tools like DIFF with graphics (really cool way to view diffs), CVS control etc ...

 

However NVU doesn't handle php very well... nor does it really visualize DIV's so you end up using crappy tables..instead. My first templates I prototyped in NVU .. however it crashes all the time using php/div's,,, like if you select print or page setup from file by error.... and if you want a clean template without tables its actually useless, your better off using ANYTHING else (such as bluefish/scream,quanta,vi) all of which actually recognise the php...

 

NVU also makes loads of white space corruption by which I mean it will screw all your tabs for indenting but worse it will split say php across a DIV so you end up with <?php lalalala DIV.lalala morephp </DIV> function { <SPAN> <NL>phpcode <DIV> } </SPAN> </DIV>

 

now in most cases the code actually runs... its just not human readable

 

So if you want to do a clean Joomla template (according to the docs :D) then you use the DreamWeaver plugin...

 

 

However back to the point :D

osm_header.png

I really can't see why it was necassary to use Fireworks to produce THAT logo whereas I can see its diffcult in GIMP to produce

Joomla%20Logo%20Horz%20Color%20Thumbnail.png

 

The irony is ... the name of the logo... Opensource matters.... and the SW used to make the logo seems to be a mockery ... not only is it using a closed source app but its producing a corrupt JPEG as well with extended non standard attributes. (So it can be reedited in Fireworks as a native Fireworks jpg)

as for creative stuff, that's more how creative you are, rather than the tools you use. if you have the idea, you ought to be able to construct it in krita or gimp.

Exactly my point....

Although many of the templates cannot be.. GIMP just isn't up to the job... when you see the actual images in the templates you can see why... because they are seamlessly split to fit into the page and look like 1 graphic.

However what I'm interested in is just how far we can go in OS tools...

 

This also got me thinking about KDE themes and Gnome themes... how many of these are photoshop/fireworks etc?

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The irony is ... the name of the logo... Opensource matters.... and the SW used to make the logo seems to be a mockery ... not only is it using a closed source app but its producing a corrupt JPEG as well with extended non standard attributes. (So it can be reedited in Fireworks as a native Fireworks jpg)

yeah true. but it's possible that the site was professionally built, or that someone was simply using what they felt comfortable with.

 

I'm against closed software. I dislike it, I think we'd be better off without it. However I have nothing against people who use it.

 

To disallow people using it, is restricting their own freedom to choose. In the end, computers exist to perform tasks, and people should be free to use what they like to complete that task most efficiently. Whoever made that logo may dislike the GIMP, and a lot of people do -- so long as they have a fair reason, go for it, use fireworks or photoshop. (although they could use Krita, but so little know about that wonderful app, which is just as good as gimp)

 

as for creative stuff, that's more how creative you are, rather than the tools you use. if you have the idea, you ought to be able to construct it in krita or gimp.

Exactly my point....

Although many of the templates cannot be.. GIMP just isn't up to the job... when you see the actual images in the templates you can see why... because they are seamlessly split to fit into the page and look like 1 graphic.

now here's something to think about:

why should krita/the gimp support all the layout systems of closed source applications?

 

Instead start from the start using krita/the gimp to develop your layout? THAT is supporting open source, not using a closed implementation in an open app. Export to png from gimp, and then use some basic image magick commands to cut it up.

 

otoh, you're site is fundamentally flawed if you're relying on images to that extent, and it'd probably have some pretty nasty issues.

 

However what I'm interested in is just how far we can go in OS tools...

 

This also got me thinking about KDE themes and Gnome themes... how many of these are photoshop/fireworks etc?

 

less and less, a majority of the used themes now aren't pixmap/vector. We're tending back to pure engine based themes, which means they use a basic theme description text file, and the engine, written in C for GTK, C++ for QT does all the rendering - no image files.

 

anything i've seen done in a pixmap/vector theme, could be done in krita/the gimp/inkscape. (choose your own sentences!) If they've been done in a closed source app, it's simply been because of the personal preference and comfort of the designer... which relates back to above :)

 

James

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