tyme Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 I keep waiting for Enlightenment (E17), but it may be a dream! :lol: E17 is well on it's way to being completed. I use it every now and again, and it's definitely stable and usable, they just have some features and programs that they haven't finished quite yet. I prefer GNOME, although a while back I tried KDE for a few weeks and while I enjoyed using it, I eventually got tired of it and went back to GNOME. My biggest gripe with KDE is the lack of good, simple yet beautiful themes. I find GNOME has a much larger variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilia_kr Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 (edited) I started off with KDE, lasted about 4 months or so, tried GNOME, used it ever since. Just feel that aesthetically GNOME has the bit more polish, and I still get enough configuration to satisfy my needs. Hey, I was just about to say that ! :D Edited April 24, 2006 by ilia_kr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw1974 Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 I remembered from a previous post here (but can't find it), Linus Torvalds prefers KDE ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEberger Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 i prefer kde. gnome feels kind of toyish to me. of all window managers i prefer fluxbox and window maker. they're both really light and quick. :-) why kde? i like most of the native apps and enjoy the customization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 I remembered from a previous post here (but can't find it), Linus Torvalds prefers KDE ;) good for him...I'm not sure why that matters, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw1974 Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 It just reminded me of a post reiver brought up a while back when he (Linus) was bashing on the Gnome desktop on the Gnome forums and posting saying he preferred KDE for his desktop. Just added for humour element!!! And since it was a KDE/Gnome posting, thought just to add it purely for fun :D EDIT: Found link: https://mandrivausers.org/index.php?showtop...846&hl=torvalds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilia_kr Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Here, for a reference, some older topics on Gnome vs KDE issue: https://mandrivausers.org/index.php?s=&show...ndpost&p=195016 https://mandrivausers.org/index.php?s=&show...ndpost&p=195809 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reiver_Fluffi Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 I remembered from a previous post here (but can't find it), Linus Torvalds prefers KDE ;) Ooh Ooh Ooh, that's verging on flame territory, there was me thinking you were a nice monkey! (before anyone gets excited, please note that I am joking :P) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannin Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Also keep in mind configuration. I don't mean the nuts and bolts, though that's easy enough to do in either desktop. I mean the theme. For instance, in KDE, if you want to install a new widget theme, you either have to go through the process of compiling the new theme yourself, which takes a lot of the KDE development packages, or you have to find a binary package that someone else has already made. With Gnome, you just unpack the theme and stick it in ~/.themes and you're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Also keep in mind configuration. I don't mean the nuts and bolts, though that's easy enough to do in either desktop. I mean the theme. For instance, in KDE, if you want to install a new widget theme, you either have to go through the process of compiling the new theme yourself, which takes a lot of the KDE development packages, or you have to find a binary package that someone else has already made. With Gnome, you just unpack the theme and stick it in ~/.themes and you're done. Not in Debian ... There are hundreds of kde themes available in the repo's... Indeed I have gone through the compile install thing and then discovered the package existed when I decided to build it into a deb. However overall this is not oranges and oranges... You can install lots of parts of KDE 'themes' without any compile from icons, sounds and mouse cursors, sound themes etc. What you do need to compile or find a binary for are the Window decorations ...and thing that change the WM.. I am not a Gnome expert by a long way but I think most of what can be configured in gnome is installable in KDE without a binary or compiling but things like transparency etc. require a compile. I remembered from a previous post here (but can't find it), Linus Torvalds prefers KDE ;) good for him...I'm not sure why that matters, though. We went through it before... To me its a matter of policy... Gnome acts like *BSD ... if its not passed its kicked out and however much its needed it won't go in unless it conforms to their idea of HID... KDE is more lnux, if ot works put it in and if people don't like it they choose another one. As I remember the whole things was due to Gnome refusing to have a printer config thingy... because it didn't conform to HID and linux was saying something like stick it in anyway and correct it in the next release. Its just different ways of doing things ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannin Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 The KDE themes may be in the repository, as some are for Mandriva, but that still counts as installing a binary. It's true that in KDE, you can radically change the way the widgets themselves work by intstalling a theme (which must be compiled or installed as a binary), and in Gnome installing a theme simply changes the way the widgets look. But if all you want to do is change the way the widgets look, not how they work, then it's much easier to do that in Gnome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 We went through it before...To me its a matter of policy... Gnome acts like *BSD ... if its not passed its kicked out and however much its needed it won't go in unless it conforms to their idea of HID... That's not my point. My point is why does Linus have anymore of a sway than any other user? He's not a GUI designer, he's a kernel developer. Has he taken classes in UI design? Does he understand the concepts of UI design? I've taken quite a few UI design courses, and if you ask me GNOME complies more with the generally accepted UI design practices than KDE. The HID is part of this. KDE is more lnux, if ot works put it in and if people don't like it they choose another one.I don't believe that's completely true. I'm sure there are things/ideas KDE has thrown out. As I remember the whole things was due to Gnome refusing to have a printer config thingy...gnome-cups-manager... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 (edited) We went through it before... To me its a matter of policy... Gnome acts like *BSD ... if its not passed its kicked out and however much its needed it won't go in unless it conforms to their idea of HID... That's not my point. My point is why does Linus have anymore of a sway than any other user? He's not a GUI designer, he's a kernel developer. Has he taken classes in UI design? Does he understand the concepts of UI design? I've taken quite a few UI design courses, and if you ask me GNOME complies more with the generally accepted UI design practices than KDE. The HID is part of this. That is mainly my point... Gnome and KDE are different philosophies. That is why I used the linux/BSD analogy. Both do the same thing but the development process is very different. BSD is more structured and linux is more adhoc .... Gnome have their HID and KDE have what the user's want or designers want to make. Both get the same jobs done.. Its largely a matter of choice as to how you want to work. UI design is one of those soft sciences IMHO which produces fuzzy results. I don't think there is any such thing as correct UI design because it depends on the task at hand and it also involves neuro-programming on the side of the user. Humans have a very diverse set of things they find comfortable. Some of this is hard coded other parts are aquired and other parts depend on the task in hand. Sometimes what feels comfortable for one thing is less comfortable for another thing. For me I am ambidextrous, I wrote right handed until age 5 when I broke my right arm and switched to my left hand. Now I write left handed mostly but if Im writing on a whiteboard I will often write right handed because they tend to have a space to stand to the right since most people stand to the right of them. I use a mouse mainly right handed because when I started using one, computers were shared and the mouse always on the right. This if course all works but when I started playing the guitar I started right handed because my friend was right handed, I think I maybe should have played left handed. Tennis I used to play both hands as a kid and eventually my father a keen player told me I couldn't possibly progress until I chose one hand or the other because in a real game there is no time to switch hands and regrip the racquet properly. Having said that I open wine right handed, peel potatos and play golf and use scissors because it was forced on me. All of these items are 95% designed for right handed people. The most stylish, designed potatoe peeler in the world cannot get past the fact it is designed for right handed people. I don't actually notice this anymore but what amazes me is people I work with, especially on maual things. When working on that sort of thing I often change hands with a hammer or drill depending how Im stood and people literally find it unnerving, I don't even really notice it but I find the people who are meant ot be helping just gawking at me. The human brain is I believe no less diverse in other tasks as to what it finds convenient. I am sure that the UI design does have merit but I challenge the overall importance of that merit. I am certainly no expert but MS have presumably done a lot of studies on this and presumably XP or vista should be better than Win98 yet many people find Win98 more efficient for working. You can add as much HID stuff to the control panel as you like and 95% of windows users will never use it (well a large amount, many can't even access it). Back to Gnome, Even then they spend ages on a tool most users will use once, efficiency is IMVHO less important than having a tool in the first place...but that is my opinion on how I work and valid for me. However this is my type of validity, I personally like making my own desicions about what I find comfortable or efficient. I find Gnome very much like going to a resto and asking for my burger blue and the waiter telling me to have it well done. Is there some reason this resto has bad meat because otherwise why would he advise me to have it well done? If a waiter does advise me on how I want it cooked I leave the resto and go and find one that does what I ask. Millions of people do not, millions of people go to McDo's everyday and have it the way McDo serve every other burger. Many even find comfort in not having to choose, its all about being individual. The same can be said for trackballs or many other things, people get used to it and it becomes familiar. Arctic (I think) once made the best arguament for gnome I ever saw...he was loosing productivity just because he loved tweaking KDE and its so tweakable. Back on linus... Does his opinion count more? I think this is a matter of respect more than anything. Why do your parents opinions count for more? It's the same sort of thing. Linus is a figurehead and although he might not be elected he does to an extent represent the movement. I think asking if he has a course in UI design is irrelevant in this context because linus just wants a tool that works. He is willing to accept the 'UI design flaw' so long as the tool does its job, just like your parents will love you even if you had dropped out of college and become an artist. If I criticise you to your parents they will probably defend you regardless, this is not bad its good because you are a nice guy with your own opinions, your parents might not understand all your opinions (since you seem quite techy and they are by definition in a different generation) but they will support you. Linux hasn't turned out so bad has it? Hence I surmise linus is doing a good job so I think his opinion matters. I believe what he wants to see is a fully functional OS regardless of WM/DM ... I have quite a bit of experience in one area, Roland once mentioned in a OT ...reengineering The French love design ... they like to design from scratch and make everything perfect. Of course not everything turns out perfect and then they have problems, they do not have the germano-anglo habit of suck 'n' see which is why Renault send all their performance cars to Lotus for tuning. When they design something they build it and if it has a flaw they tend to go back to the drawing board. When US/UK ians build something they design/build/test/modify/test/tweak .... When Latins build something they design/build/test and if it doesn't work they scrap it and design/build/test... Both of these work very well ... they are just different however they work best when combined. The idea of over designing everything is not bad but the most sucessful is the ability to do the grand design and then be able to tweak it. IMHO KDE tends towards suck 'n' see and Gnome is design and drawing board. I think Gnome could benefit in a little less design and a little more lets see how this pans out and we will correct the HID features in the next release ... but that's just my 2c edits fixed quotes! groan Edited April 26, 2006 by Gowator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 man...you should try to slim down your posts ;)...i tried to read that and halfway through i felt like i needed to stop and breathe...i'll try to get back to it some other time, but...i dunno :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 man...you should try to slim down your posts ;)...i tried to read that and halfway through i felt like i needed to stop and breathe...i'll try to get back to it some other time, but...i dunno :lol: The problem is its not a black and white situation, though I am aware I post long posts...:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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