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Guest anon

TO ALL MDK 10 USERS.

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aRTee.

I understand your frustration and Im sure its nothing to do with the techy guys at Mandrakesoft and that they don't deserve it but their marketing SUCKS!!!

 

If you look deep enough into it its plain that the CE is an extended RC... except that its the same quality as previous RELEASES.

 

I agree, its nice and at least as good as 9.2 ... which is pretty amazing considering no-one expects a .0 release to be as stable as a .2 release!

 

And its not becuase its REALLY 9.2 rebadged .... its kernel 2.6 ....

 

But ITS not final, it already has 300MB of bug fixes.....

that is NOT a final product in terms of their aims... (anna has pasted the official blurb)

 

If this is final what will they call the release of 10.0 in April/May ???

 

Once again this is a FINE technical product.... let down by the marketing. I feel sorry for the tech guys, Im sure they are pissed off even more than YOU but Mandrake is IMHO trying to burn a candle from both ends. It want instant revenue from 10.0CE but without affecting sales in 10.0 STABLE RELEASE in April.

 

Now I know thwere is a version coming out in April which will have >300MB (who knows how much by then) of updates on the DVD.

 

Or I can pay $60 now and then get the DVD later and pay again for it.

 

Now lets say as a incentive to get my 60$ now Mandrake offered me a rebate of $50 on the final powerpack ... I'd BUY the DVD. However they aren't willing to play their half of the game...

 

If anyone without Internet or only dail-up asks me what DISTRO then I will not be recommending 10.0CE becuase they have no access to the updates, Id rather tell them to get 9.2 .

 

I agree its not good for Mandy, sorry but

'don't expect me to lie

don't expect me to die

for him '

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If you all want Mandrake ( -Linux, and -Soft, meaning all those developers out of a job) to die within a year, you're going the right way about it...

I don't want to Mandrake to die within a year... or 10 years, or a 100... truly, you're kind of hurting my feelings on this one (ok perhaps I did that to you too, unintentional then).

 

I was going to install it and report bugs too.

 

This *despite* the fact that I cannot get my internet connection set up in Mandrake (while it is so easy in Mepis or Lindows). And despite the fact that I, as a consequence, will have to reboot for each (series of) bug report(s) I want to file.

 

I was ALSO planning on buying the Offical version when it reaches the stores, considering to invest yet AGAIN in hardware if I really cannot work things out.

 

The distro is great, IMHOnestly, but Mandrake's marketing is often vague and vague does not cut the cheese. I felt like I should point this out. Bad marketing helps nobody, especially Mandrake. I'm just pointing out something here, just like I think Gowator is trying to do, not breaking Mandy down...

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Guest anon
If you all want Mandrake ( -Linux, and -Soft, meaning all those developers out of a job) to die within a year, you're going the right way about it...

That comment is a bit over the top, don't you think?

I started this topic because i didn't want some people to think that 10 was the final, install it, find loads of problems, and then get disgusted with MDK for releasing an unfinished release.

Its stated on MDKs home page, and been quoted here several times, MDK-10 final or "official" will not be out until April--May. Cooker is frozen for development, all new files there at the moment and up till the final or official release of 10, are updates and bug fixes for this CE (read RC) release.

 

BTW, MDK-10 works fine for me. B)

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Yeah all that is your fault anon who said that ML10.0 is a RC ;) :jester:

gowator: if Mandrake can't sell 10.0 CE they couldn't also sell previous release !

Again, it's as finished ! so why not ? because they are going to sell an other one, the Official, in may ? but this one I tell you they can, and should, sell it more expensive. Like a Suse why not ?

Honestly I don't see the advertising of the 10.0 CE, but what do you want them to say ? that it's not finished ? that it's a RC ?

When ML50.0 will come out (finger crossed), everybody will know what a CE is and what a Official is.

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Ok, so maybe I overreacted a bit on the advertising part. Problem is I'm really sensitive to that but... case closed, as far as I'm concerned.

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Guest anon

HEY!! You know what one of my favourite sayings is????

There are none so blind as those who won't see

 

Im out of this thread :wall::wall::wall::wall::cheeky::cheeky::cheeky:

 

(I think thats about as frustrated as an admin is allowed to get isn't is?...... let me check the guidlines.... )

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Ok, I take 10 minutes (damn it's half an hour) to tell you all why I cannot stand this talk about 10.0 CE not being the final.

 

1) Mandrake gets to say when it is final, and they have: this is it. Not us, not anyone else.

After the traditional debugging of several Beta and Release Candidates, the final version of "Mandrake Linux 10.0 Community" will be released in February/March. This version will be available for download and as a DVD-set through e-Commerce.

Note to gowator: they do say what this dvd set is. It is bleeding edge CE.

 

 

2) just as Linus called 2.6 final in December, they have to get more people to use it so it can really become rock solid.

 

3) it does not help not calling it final, because then people will shy away waiting for the final product due in May. Note: remember the LG fiasco? No matter who's fault it is, in the first place people still strongly connect that to Mandrake (9.2 as far as they even keep track of versions) - never mind that the patch that caused it was from SUSE and also got to people on Gentoo. So we must not keep people from 10.0 CE by saying it is NOT final. It IS!

 

4) the mirrors also say it is final.

Name Type Size Time

Mandrakelinux-10.0-Community-Download-CD1.i586.iso ISO 711,574 KB 2004.03.04 14:40:00

Mandrakelinux-10.0-Community-Download-CD2.i586.iso ISO 711,716 KB 2004.03.04 14:41:00

Mandrakelinux-10.0-Community-Download-CD3.i586.iso ISO 711,748 KB 2004.03.04 14:42:00

Mandrakelinux-10.0-Community-Download.md5sums.asc ASC 1 KB 2004.03.04 15:50:00

MandrakeMove-i586.iso ISO 631,348 KB 2004.01.07 17:55:00

move.md5sum.asc ASC 1 KB 2004.01.07 18:49:00

README

 

I don't spot any 'rc' in there.

 

Or:

ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/Man...ndrake/updates/

 

Parent directory

Name Type Size Time

10.0 Directory 2004.03.10 08:51:00

6.0 Directory 2003.04.22 00:00:00

6.1 Directory 2003.04.22 00:00:00

7.0 Directory 2003.04.22 00:00:00

7.1 Directory 2003.04.22 00:00:00

7.2 Directory 2003.06.16 00:00:00

8.0 Directory 2003.04.22 00:00:00

8.1 Directory 2003.04.22 00:00:00

8.2 Directory 2003.10.01 00:00:00

9.0 Directory 2004.03.10 08:51:00

9.1 Directory 2004.03.10 17:00:00

9.2 Directory 2004.03.10 17:00:00

amd64 Directory 2003.09.19 00:00:00

corporate Directory 2003.04.22 00:00:00

ia64 Directory 2003.04.22 00:00:00

mnf8.2 Directory 2004.03.10 08:51:00

ppc Directory 2003.04.22 00:00:00

snf7.2 Directory 2003.06.16 00:00:00

x86_64 Directory 2003.07.04 00:00:00

 

See, the updates for 10.0 are available. This indicates to me there is such a beast as 10.0. Updates for an rc are cooker.

 

5) the number of MB's of updates means little. Remember, 9.2 had over 400MB in total after about 10 days. Compare to the ten days that 10.0 is out - not a big difference. Not that that is relevant anyway, it has never been an argument. Besides, if you're counting MB's then please only count those packages that are updated by Mandrake. Discount the kernel, non-Mdk programs etc. Then count MB's.

 

6) If you all read the same press release that I read by Mandrake: http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/pr-releaseprocess.php3

you know that they have added a step, not lengthened the rc-final procedure but added the Official release. Don't make it look like the CE is just a time-extended rc. It is what was normally called final, after one, two or three rc's and 2 to 4 betas. And there will always be people for whom it will not work well, and who will claim it was 'rushed'. Read this, on why not another rc:

http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/...andrakeLinuxFAQ

Long answer : No, for a lot of reasons. First, having to wait one or more week is not possible. Always postpoing the releases is not a good idea, since people will demand the latest releases of software. Once we spend one more week, people will ask one more and so on. Second is mandrake have industrial delay, in order to press the cd. Third is that people need to have deadline in order to work as efficiently as possible. Beginning to postpone will only lead to more and more late, and in the end, we will take 2 years for each releases, with a 6 month freeze, which is not good for desktop distributions.

 

Basically, there will always be this kind of problem.

From the cookerlist and other places, including mandrakeusers.org, it is clear that 10.0CE has much less problems than 9.2 final.

 

7) if you have to compare the 10.0CE and 10.0OE with anything, then with 9.2 respectively 9.2.1 (the clubmembers only isos). This is much closer to what CE and OE can be and hopefully will be.

Note that there is no other way to compare 10.0OE to anything, since an rc with 2 months inbetween it and the final has not been seen before. This is why I keep saying that 10.0OE is a different beast altogether, and CE is what used to be the regular final.

 

 

Some people will have problems and will call 10.0CE rushed, crap or whatever. Good for them. Whatever. Has it ever been different?

Same with MB's of updates.

 

 

The point is, if people don't use Mandrake 10.0 CE because it is called non-Final here and elsewhere, the real problems will pop up only at the release of the OE. Remember LG. Mandrake cannot use a faulty 10.0OE. And all who are shouting that CE is just another RC are working towards that.

 

Why not explain what Mandrake put in their press release?

 

Why write:

Some of you have been led to believe that the MDK 10 released a few days ago, was 10- final .

It is Not That was just a "Community release" as it is so called, but it is really just a RC release. Think of it as a MDK-10-RC3 if you will. It was a snapshot from cooker taken around the 07-March.

 

Which, no offence Anon, I realise that you are trying to do good here, and don't take this personally, is at best misleading and incorrect. I don't want to put what I think it is at worst...

 

Instead of that you could (can, you can edit it) write:

 

The Mandrake 10.0 Community Edition final has been released a few days ago. Mandrake has made changes to their release process, which means the following:

after this release, Mandrake developers will concentrate on ironing out any problems out of this Community Edition. In about 2 months the resulting release, called Official Edition, will see the day. It will be less bleeding edge than Mandrake 10.0 CE, but more polished and robust.

 

Mandrake has made this release model official after already using it with Mandrake 9.2 where in January they made 9.2 updated isos available to clubmembers, also referred to as 9.2.1.

 

Just as 9.2.1 contained 9.2 with all updates available at that moment, Offiical Edition will contain the same packages / versions as 10.0 CE, but will include all updates to that moment.

This means that if you install 10.0CE today, and keep your packages updated, you are effectively running OE the moment it is released.

 

Basically, you have 2 choices: either you go for the bleeding edge version today, or you wait until the Official Edition comes out around May -- you will have to wait longer if you don't buy a pack or are a clubmember. The isos will be released to the general public sometime later.

 

If you decide go for the Community Edition, please consider the following;

1 ) if you come across bugs, please check on http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/...Main/Mandrake10 ,

http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/errata.php3

and

http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/

whether the bug is know.

if it is, please vote for it, this means that you confirm that you also have stumbled upon it, and increases the priority to fix it.

If it is not, please file a bugreport on http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/ explaining as clearly as you can what the problem is.

2 ) Mandrake will really want to fix bugs, since the more they fix, the better the Official Edition which is what the PowerPacks are based on. So they are surely very motivated.

 

If you decide you do not wish to help out testing anything, sending in bugreports etc, please realise this:

1) if everyone had this mentality, Linux would not be anywhere today.

2) if your hardware has problems with Mandrake Linux 10.0 CE, but you didn't notify Mandrake, how is the OE going to run properly on it?

 

If you decide to wait for the OE, realise this:

1) it will not be bleeding edge, forget about getting any packages that are new (meaning: that came out after the CE came out) - this includes GNOME 2.6. Naturally, this goes for any release that is more tested, debugged and polished. Debian includes a 2.4 kernel since a few months only...

2)

 

Bugreporting and testing is not for everybody, if it is not for you, wait for the OE. If you want to make sure that OE will run properly on your hardware, if you want to contribute to the quality of the OE, then start with the CE.

 

If your current Linux installation is working fine, consider dualbooting with that and ML10.0CE. It is never a good idea to thrash your current system for a new one that you have not tested on your hardware.

 

 

Basically, what do you recommend someone who wants to try linux today? Mandrake 9.2??? Don't make me laugh, 10.0 is lots better.

9.2: no kernel source, menu problems, lg issue, etc. And, it is 6 months old, the problems that were there but were paid attention to ARE FIXED IN ML 10.0 CE, not in 9.2...

10.0CE: doesn't boot from first cd, furthermore there are some small problems.

Hard choice? Not really.

If 10.0CE doesn't run properly, people can always go to 9.2, but newcomers should start at 10.0CE.

 

 

Personally, I can only hope that OE goes public at the earliest 2 months after the Packs are out.

 

 

To close this rant, a small remarkt about this o so good Mandrake version by Texstar: PCLinuxOS - it is being released in the way that many would like Mandrake to get released: true and tested.

Has anyone seen the final? It keeps getting postponed.

The quality will be great. Once it is finally released. Mandrake cannot do this, they are a company that employs 60+ ( ? ) people.

 

 

Please anon, either don't keep this topic sticky, or change the opening post. It is better to really explain the new release cycle than to keep talking beta-rc-final and trying to match that with beta-rc-finalCE-OE.

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Guest anon
Those who prefer an even more tested version should wait for the 'Official' release, scheduled to be published in early May 2004.

 

Mandrakelinux 10.0 Official will be released in May.

So if its not "official" then its a beta or RC isn't it?

:wall::wall::wall: :D :D

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take a deep breath, relax, and realise:

 

it doesn't really matter, folks ;)

 

if you're mad at Mandrake for this release, get back at them by testing the crap out of it and reporting every bug you find!! While this will take some work on your part, it will give them more work to do! (oh yeah, and improve the quality of the final!)

 

***DRILL SERGEANT MODE***

Now stop yer whinin' and get out there, maggots!!

***/DRILL SERGEANT MODE***

 

:jester:

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if you're mad at Mandrake for this release, get back at them by testing the crap out of it and reporting every bug you find!!  While this will take some work on your part, it will give them more work to do!  (oh yeah, and improve the quality of the final!)

 

***DRILL SERGEANT MODE***

Now stop yer whinin' and get out there, maggots!! 

***/DRILL SERGEANT MODE***

 

:jester:

Tyme, I will.

 

Then maybe then we can make this evil topic go away :P :P :P

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Those who prefer an even more tested version should wait for the 'Official' release, scheduled to be published in early May 2004.

 

Mandrakelinux 10.0 Official will be released in May.

So if its not "official" then its a beta or RC isn't it?

:wall::wall::wall: :D :D

 

 

No, :wall: :wall: :wall:

if it is not Official (note the capital 'O' indicating this is a name) then it MUST NOT BE a beta or rc, it can ALSO be Community final.

 

 

Before there was:

'regular' cooker/development, phased into beta (counting beta's, which are snapshots), then rc('s) (one or more), then final.

beta(s) - rc(s) - final

 

Now there is:

'regular' cooker/development, phased into beta (counting beta's, which are snapshots), then rc('s) (one or more), then Community Edition final, then 2 months quiet, then Official Edition.

beta(s) - rc(s) - CE - OE

 

 

Why is it so difficult to see that the change in development process forces us to change wording? Mandrake can do this, you know. You all falling back onto the old words is not doing justice to what is going on.

 

It's like trying to say, with Debian you have a cooker version called Testing, then an rc called Unstable, then a final called Stable (or whatever). It just doesn't do justice what things really are, and is confusing if anything at all.

 

Just as much as Linus pushes out a final to get people to use it, then get more feedback to improve, Mandrake is doing the same. For all reasons that I and others have named, CE equates perfectly to what previously was the final. As I mentioned, OE equates to 9.2.1 - this is just an official way to name something that has been done before.

 

 

Keeping on trying to use rc for CE means that you just don't get it.

Maybe you (all who call CE an rc) should read the press release again, read my previous message again and let it sink in.

THINGS HAVE CHANGED, THEY ARE NO LONGER AS THEY WERE BEFORE. USING THE OLD WORDS DOES NOT HELP, IT IS BETTER TO MAKE CLEAR WHAT THE NEW WORDS STAND FOR.

Sorry to be shouting but darn, it sure seems necessary....

 

What you keep saying equates to saying that the audio cd is some sort of vinyl record. Right...

 

 

Again, the start post in this thread is confusing and incorrect. Either correct it, or don't make it sticky and let it sink down.

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aRTee,

You right BUT what we are saying is it doesn't matter!

We can say whatever we will here and it will only be seen by a minority of MDK users.

 

Most of them will just see the CE and be confused as hell in April/May when final comes out!

 

That's the point. Go to the buy page ... its not clear what is is and for all the ways MDK could have done this they seem to have chosen the one guaranteed to cause the most confusion. A new STABLE release is a great idea! however, pre announcing it they way they have is not our fault or anon's fault.

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Guest anon

MDK-10 final is coming out in April-May. It won't be called 10.1 or 10.2 just 10 final or "official"

Anything that is released before that date, is an RC release for all intent and purposes. MDK have chosen to call the ISOs released a few days ago, CE release. Well they can call it whatever they want, CE, DE or , OBE :D

But until April-May, what your really getting is a RC release. The vast majority of people who have used MDK for a few years know this.

Ideal for early explorers.

10.0 Community lets you run the latest Linux innovations before the general public. >More...

Before the general public? can't be the final then :lol:

 

btw, never thought this topic would tun into a debate, as most know its not the final, anyway i have unpinned it as some of you are still unconvinced. :juggle:

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btw, never thought this topic would tun into a debate, as most know its not the final, anyway i have unpinned it as some of you are still unconvinced.  :juggle:

Well, I guess that's what you get when people hold these issues very close to their heart.

Edited by Darkelve

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