Minnow Tales on Microsoft

[gmac]

" I think it's smoke and mirrors. They say it, but can they do it? Not without your own government cooperating!"

 

I think it is as well. It's a complex issue The trouble is our government like a lot of others is falling prey to this idea that businesses should be free to get on with things and interfering is bad for jobs resulting with decisions being made that shouldn't be. If business is king I'm on the parliament's side but I don't trust them either, maybe I'll join the consumers side. We live in interesting times as the saying goes.

 

If the decision goes against them (microsoft that is) maybe they'll boycott Europe and we can live in a microsoft free zone.

[Gowator]

I think the interesting part about the implied illegality of supplying a PC without Windows is the implied guilt that you must be planning to do something illegal if you don't have windows. The real problem is that MS exploit the European system. Many of the EULA's are illegal and MS either knows this or chooses not to however Europens are not used to being confronted with illegal licenses or contracts. Its simply somthing outside of our experience.

 

Under UK contract law you can submit any contract you wish and the last written contract will supercede the others BUT that doesn't make it legally enforcable. There is nothing illegal in writing it however but most companies wouldn't feel they would 'get away' with using it so British individuals and companies are not used to this tactic. Nor (speaking for Europeans, I think) do we want this to be the case, any more than we want American 'Sue culture'.

 

We (and I think I talk in general) find this a degradation to our society, a dishonest approach and have no with to; as it appears to us in the US that the basis for business is dishonestly and what you can get away with as opposed to basing business fundamentally on honesty. I mentioned advertising before, and the American advertisments to us seem perverse. Buy our product becuase our competitors has all these faults.

 

I realise that this is a alien concept to those of you brought up in America, but it just isn't considered the done thing to criticise your competitors products masked behind thin lies.

 

The MS license etc. implies to people who don't know better that we have to agree to be bound by an American license in the Europe.

 

I think some of the other things though are more serious, and although I agree with Ixthusdan that American compies deal witrh state laws BUT the difference is in Europe we are not used to other companies from countries trying to exert their laws on us via tricks and we are therefore unprepared. Not only that but it degrades us to have to legislate over it.

 

Our government isn't enforcing these laws it is just complicit over them.

Technically MS are not doing anything wrong with the EULA. Its just a trick. Its not illegal to buy a PC without an OS, it just gets told to us that it that it is. For instance, the PC world guy has probably been on an indoctrination course where some MS course leader told them it was illegal to copy windows and since its the only OS people who buy PC's without them are criminals meaning to copy the product. The thing is that MS get away with this becuase the guy at PC world believes it. Possibly the course leader could be brought to justice but unfortunately he's back in the USA, a counry we know from experience won't even extradite terrorists.

 

Lets see, apply for extradition to subpoena a course teacher from a country that won't even produce people convicted of blowing up 50 civilains!!

Its kinda pointless, no lawyer is even going to bother proceeding against an American company becuase they simply hide in the US and refuse to comply with demands from courts.

 

The internet is now taking this a step further, MS are locking computers and deleting peoples data remeotely from America. What is it you are suggesting Ixthusdan that we play the sae game, threaten war if America doesn't take action. Everything comes back to people hiding behind the fact that America has no interest in what its citizens do outside its borders however illegal it is so long as they pay their taxes. Its just a merry go round. Since Microsoft UK is a seperate company and we don't play the same games as the US does in taking action against an affilaite in the absense of the guilty parties we are left with asking nicely if they US would please investigate who did this and please extradite them for trial...its ridiculous becauase we don't get past first base which is as soon as we ask for cooperation we just get told the US authorities don't care because the crime wasn't commited ion US soil.

 

In the US you have the ability to extradite a suspect from a state if the offence is a felony but to the rest of the world you don't care one iota if the guy is a convicted terrorist so long as he pays taxes and abides by the US laws on US soil.

[gmac]

"Microsoft's latest offer to end its long-running anti-trust case with the European Commission has been rejected, according to reports this week.

 

The Redmond-based software giant had offered to settle the case by putting competitors' software on CD-ROMs sold with computers. But, according to sources quoted by Reuters earlier this week, the Commission believed that the CD-ROMs distributed with new computers would get little use and would be an ineffective channel for distribution. "

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/microsoft/Story/...1150951,00.html

 

If their decision remains consistent they will rule against microsoft.

[Darkelve]

Wow... I think I'll finally be able to be proud of a 'governmental' body...

 

tx European Commission!

Edited February 23, 2004 by Darkelve

[Gowator]

It looks good but its really dodging the issue.

The reason Media player is bad is becuase of MS specific formats being put onto third party servers.

 

I recently went to a lot of trouble playing about getitng wifi into my bedroom to have internet radio when reading.

 

Whenever Im in the Uk I speed a reasonable time listening to classic FM.

So after installing the plugins etc. I set up a few channels then tried classic FM.

 

It only broadcasts in wmv, no real audio at all let alone streaming MP3.

 

This is the real weapon, people won't throws away windows while it stops them doing something like this. MS has lost the battle for a office suite, 99% of SO or OO works fine BUT here's the real killer.

 

Bundling or unbundling media player won't help, MS will just stick a link to download it. Its all well and good having a RealAudio install on a CD but it won't help if they can't listen to the channel they want to listen to.

 

The problem is largely that MS force feed people with their formats, be it streaming audio or Ms word.

 

Corporations are not commonly posting best viewed in Opera or Mozilla on thier web sites, in fact many apache websites state best viewed in Internet Explorer OR even only compatible with IE vxx or above.

 

Sure someone can make an opensource wmv player BUT its not changing the fact that the standard is being set by default. Perhaps what is more needed is that 'public' web sites should be forced to support open standards.

 

Who enforces etc is another question, as is what is public.

But the other way is very much the WINE way. It just makes the problem look like its dissapeared until MS make another twist to it.

 

You can compare this to IM clients etc. ITs basically a race with MS developing 'security' features to block third party clients and third party clients fighting back by adding the latest twist. BUT in the end all it does is promote and establish the MS perverted standard even deeper.

 

Plus in court MS can say even when they changed the format (for the benefit of the security of their users) the third party clients can still connect (eventually)...