LindowsOS

[Darkelve]

Apperently, in their new version, Lindows changed the kernel version to 2.4.22, supposedly with support for the nforce chipset. There were quite some complaints/requests from users for this.

 

Only downloaded and installed it 2 days ago.

 

Oh well, it's not like I'm not used to downloading. At least with Mandrake, it was every six months ;)

 

Oh, and their support is really wonderful. Fast, friendly and to the point. Only they tend to be a bit less complete/technical than on these Forums. Then again, their OS design is supposed to take care of most of these technicalites.

 

So they seem to be friendly *and* , to a certain extent, listening to their users.

 

But I think Keving Carmony (Carmogy?) spends his whole day posting on forums.

 

Oh, wait. Right.

 

Better get back to business :D

Edited December 17, 2003 by Darkelve

[aRTee]

I'm negatively surprised that no-one calls LindowsOS and M.Robertson for the non-free part of lindowsos.

 

This is the main reason why I prefer to pay 60$ per year to Mandrake instead of 100$ to lindows for a lifetime.

They can keep the lifetime membership and stick it anywhere they like.

 

I guess looking at the prices and comparing that way, you have a point.

 

It all comes down to what you believe your freedom is worth to you.

 

 

Putting this in perspective, Lindows imho would make proprietary drivers only for lindows; they would / try to lock people in as much as they are locked in into windows today.

Sure lindows wants to push choice, but only as long as they have to.

 

Mandrake so far has remained true to the Free Software spirit. urpmi and gui tools are all free software.

There is no underestimating this.

 

There is more than 'cheap' on the side of Free Software. Free mindsets, freedom of changing and inspecting the code, sharing etc. All that is lost on those who just see lindows as a cheap alternative to windows. GNU/Linux is the key, and lindows has only half of that.

Free exchange of ideas is what counts.

 

It really saddens me that no one here seems to care.

[Darkelve]

Well, I do care. But I do not think the two are mutually exclusive. It is important to have a solid philosophy as well as proof that a commercial effort through Linux can be economically beneficial.

 

 

I bought Mandrake 9.0 Powerpack at the time to support them, since I love their philosophy. I would buy 9.2 also, because for me it is enormously better and more usable than 9.0. But I'm going to try Xandros first.

 

They certainly try to bending some things their way, but they are not really crossing any legal boundaries here. Perhaps you feel they do not follow the spirit of the community, yet they do give back, albeit much less than Mandrake does.

 

I do care. Lighten up!

 

If next year I will count all the time/money I will have spent on Linux Hardware and software... trying to help out here and there, haven't I contributed too?

 

My experiences with their support were positive. That's a fact. I was curious and took advantage of the offer to check it out. It's actually not as bad as I feared it would be, much much better than M$ actually. Note also the audience for this distro.

 

Everybody has his place here, and if they won't adapt, they'll perish. It's as simple as that, Robertson or no Robertson.

 

 

Let's see (not meant to compare prices):

- Mandrake 9.0: €40

- Lindows: €100, all versions plus membership C&R; which is very convenient for checking it out, should it ever turn out to become something

- Xandros: €99

- Mandrake 9.2: € 40

- Router for my Linux box: between €50 and €120

 

- Helping out here and there; advocating Linux to my friends: priceless :)

 

 

My advice is, if you don't like Lindows, ignore them. And put your efforts into what you think is worthy of support. Me, I'm just curious, and a bit opportunistic at this time.

 

Why does this feel like the inquisition suddenly?

 

 

 

Darkelve

[aRTee]

My point is, reduced freedom is not freedom.

 

LindowsOS is reduced freedom.

 

Mandrake download edition is freedom.

 

No one seems to really care about the difference. I would never ever support the former and always the latter. I go out of my way to explain to friends that the former belongs in the same row as MS. Yes they do.

One cannot freely copy their discs, make those available on the net etcetc. One cannot see what is really inside. Those 'ideas' are lost to the rest of the world.

 

To most, Stallman is an extremist. Maybe he is, but he is also the greatest light in terms of IT freedom, a misunderstood genius.

 

If we have computing freedom in 10, 20 years, it is thanks to him and people on his side. And no one else.

We must all put weight on his side of the scale, or we will have others, not ourselves to thank for any freedom we have left in some years.

Thanks to Stallman and the like, the outlook isn't really that grim.

 

I cannot ignore LindowsOS since their marketing is so good, and people fall for it. It is very dangerous if they get more momentum than other linuxes -- for one thing, suppose Lindows gets 30-40% marketshare, gets closed source drivers that make laptops only really functional with lindows (or mswin).

Also, ms can then buy them and have control once more.

And in any case, the linux world will have lost.

 

Put money into true GPL projects, those are the ones that are really of eternal benefit to the community, nothing is hidden, all ideas can be reused. We must strive to get momentum for that, since it is the most important thing. Advocating something that doesn't benefit the whole community forever (i.e. not GPL) is a waste of time and effort.

[Darkelve]

Hell, I'm not advocating Lindows! As I said I expected it to be much worse, but I was curious anyway. Turned out te be much better than I feared. But there's no comparing with Mandrake which is a much more mature distro IMHO.

 

I reinstalled Mandy yesterday and for the first time did some 'advanced' partitioning, granting my /home a different partition. I also used ReiserFS, something Lindows used and I could not help noticing somehow things seems faster. Now I'm using ReiserFS on Mandrake 9.2 (as opposed to ext2 and ext3 earlier on) and performance really is much faster (and my system already ran faster going from 9.1 to 9.2).

 

You say Lindows has good marketing.

 

But why can't Mandrake have that!? Their discovery edition is going in the right direction (I mean, which home user will be happy to spend 2-3 days downloading stuff, installing, and tuning his system?), but who (joe user) has ever heard of them?

 

 

I see your point and mostly agree, but how is one supposed to know which projects are really worthy of support? And how do you judge something is 'worthy'? Personally I think Crossover Office/wine is worth supporting, not because I want everyone to run Windoze apps but because they really help gap the bridge for a lot of people (plus showing off how 'cool' Linux can be). Mandrake I love too of course.

 

Hey, we aren't all going to jump to Lindows all of a sudden! Right guys ;)

 

 

[EDIT: I do agree that we should not take the position we have now for granted. I did not mean to sound like I did.]

 

 

Darkelve

Edited December 18, 2003 by Darkelve

[aRTee]

I have no problem with your position, freedom includes choosing to support whomever you want to support.

My point is, if you care about your freedom and the continuation of it, support those who stand for it, like Mandrake, and not those who would like to take it from you, like MS and on a smaller scale, Lindows.

Buying memberships, even if the price seems low, even for life, is still putting money in the wrong pockets, but this again is IMHO.

 

Wine and derivatives are just workarounds, no solutions. It's trying to play catch up with MS, which is a goal that will ensure the wine developers with jobs for life. And they will all stay one step behind.

 

I use only open source, and I realise that for some this may not be as comfortable or even possible (though I think few if any home users really needs anything that has no replacement on linux), but if attainable this is largely preferable for linux and open source than to workaround things.

 

On a side note, do you believe that lindows, preinstalled and preconfigged, beats Mandrake, preinstalled and preconfigged?

I don't believe so.

 

Why Mandrake cannot do such proper marketing:

1) they still have trouble getting back onto their feet from the .com bubble burst

2) they are trying more to work with oems

3) maybe they are just not good at it

4) they have Gael Duval, whereas Lindows has MRobertson...

5) they are not so good at selling hot air

 

BTW I think more than half the marketing of Lindows is bullocks, things they can't deliver on. I would not like Mandrake to exhibit the same behaviour.

Lindows marketing gets their name out there, but IMHO not in a respectable way.

 

Ah well, my 2 rappen.

[Darkelve]

On a side note, do you believe that lindows, preinstalled and preconfigged, beats Mandrake, preinstalled and preconfigged?

I don't believe so.

 

...

...

...

 

Ah well, my 2 rappen.

Well, no. Then again if I were a home user I would not mind having *certain* steps decided for me (not every freaking thing like Lindows does), in order to have the most pleasant experience possible, albeit without breaking things (e.g. I hated the symlinks to the 'My Documents' folder spreaded all over their filesystem).

 

I've now had the chance to compare the two a bit and, yes, Mandrake is superior to it. But there remain certain barriers for Joe user. I mean just look at the menu structure some distro's that claim to be desktop-friendly have. Also, you have to install and preconfigure Mandrake yourself, at least until the Discovery Edition, which is a very good step in my opinion. Before someone new to Mandrake had to install all kinds of plug-ins, e.g. Flash, Acrobat Reader, ... using a *new* concept, rpm; using a new program, called urpmi; using a new way of doing this, called the console.

 

About wine, tell me, am I going to pay Eidos to make a Linux version for the next release (although if in group, I would) or just run it under Wine. IMHO Deus Ex is an excellent time killer for me and about the only (3d)-game I play. I am an avid fan of adventure games (KQ, QFG, GK, MKI, Myst, ...) and so on. And what do we have on Linux:

 

- Beneath a steel sky, Loom and monkey island, (using scummvm!)

- Hopkins FBI

 

So you can tell I'm happy to have Wine available for some of these to run them natively, should they work. Or I can just dual-boot everytime I want to play one of those games... which do you think I prefer?

 

 

Yeah a lot of Lindows marketing is bullocks. Seems to be the definition of marketing to me today... and I do have problems with their marketing. But the *way* in which their business is conducted, is entirely professional (not talking ethics here), e.g.

 

- Good customer support, which I haven't really seen at Mandrake (went through Mandrake Expert; sure they helped me out but it took a lot longer and there was no real follow-up)

- Delivery: they deliver on time (I believe with FedEx), something I haven't seen at Mandrake

 

About ethics: yes, they often twist things in weird ways (to their advantage of course); I must say I haven't thought much about it until now. The lifetime membership just seemed like a good deal at the time, so I went for it. I guess that's also part of good marketing. They sold it as "Help defend Linux and get something really cool in exchange". Kind of like Gowator said in his remark.

 

That being said, I don't really plan on giving them a penny more if they do not play fair.

 

To be honest, I feel that these guys ( http://www.xandros.com/ ) have an excellent mix of marketing, professionalism and ethics, focussing solely on their own strong points, not bashing other Linux distros, ... of course feel free to correct me if I'm wrong ;)

 

I'm kind of a distro-hopper at the moment, but something tells me I'll get back to Mandrake eventually. Or a dual/triple boot.

 

[Edit: after just 2 days, I got back to Mandrake :D ]

 

 

What are rappen anyway?

Edited December 21, 2003 by Darkelve

[aRTee]

Understand your point on wine, but my point is that it should be just a temporary fix, until all the games you play are native linux games.

 

If you keep on buying windows games "because at some point they will function under linux+wine" you're putting your weight on the wrong side of the scale...

 

So to use wine for the apps/games that you have is fine with me; to keep buying windows apps and use them under wine when alternatives are available that are linux native is a bad choice. Again, imho -- do what you want anyway. :)

 

I just try to make people aware that the strong point of Linux is the FLOSS community, give and take, but don't give away control over your own stuff/machine etc.

The only proprietary things that I can live with (in the long run) is games. Ok, drivers, but I'd prefer them to be open -- but one must be pragmatic at times. That being said, nvidia drivers make X the only thing on my pc to crash from time to time (and surely some of the apps).

 

So, to me at least, it is important to make people aware: their choice of linux distro counts. The choice that leads to more freedom and sharing is the better one.

 

 

Rappen are 'cents' of the Swiss franc.

[Darkelve]

So, to me at least, it is important to make people aware: their choice of linux distro counts. The choice that leads to more freedom and sharing is the better one.

Point taken ;)

[Gowator]

Lindows....

I think this really is a pro-choice thing.

I for one will not be using Mandrake as a main distro if they carry on the way they are going.

 

I decided to TRY the 9.2 download. aRTee points out that the tools (drake) and urpmi are all opensource. Yes, true but they are not documented.

 

That is two levels of documentation are available.

1) The source code....

2) A guide for idiots that cannot work out pressing start wizard - erm starts the wizard.

 

I had to install both .... and I was particualrly dissapointed with the technical documentation.

 

What did I want/what was I looking for??

 

Well, something like this modifies /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts.....

etc. etc.

I currently have a dead system..... that is I need the kernel source to compile my nforce drivers. I guess Ill have to disable onboard networking and stick in another card to download and compile then take it back out.

 

I looked everywhere for docuemntation of the mandrake sources, it simply doesn't exist as far as I can tell. For instance what is the difference between a vanilla -mdk and a -mdkenterprise ????

 

Even more annoying, I downloaded the -mdk with the intention of adding the 4GB support and recompiling for athalon....

BUT.... It is NOT the SAME source used to compile the same version -mdk....that is a secret.

(I get all sorts of missing symbols, even the "EXTRAVERSION" flag is changed in the Makefile. In other words the .configure cannot be the same .configure mandrake profess or imply to have used.

 

In order to use the nvidia nforce make install it expects no extraversion....

 

These are all just examples.....

Now I find linuxconf is no longer or the Cd's. ....(or kernel sources or ....)

 

Personally I think the Drakeconnect stinks....

If it works it works, if not you are stuck. Try changing the type of connection etc. AFTER running it and you can't. Once you choose say pppoe then it installs the pppoe rpm's and gives no option to change to say a lan connection!

 

Hence I need either linuxconf or documentaiton for how to get rid of this. It doesn't exist, (anyone interested you need to deinstall the pppoe rpm's then delete the network card and recreate it. )

 

This is propreitry by the back door!!!

The more Mandrake moves in this direction the less attractive it is as a primary distro. It hides linux away from the user.

 

This is exactly what Lindows does...

The difference is Lindows is alinux distro for people who don't want to learn linux.

Mandrake has always been a distro for noobies who want to learn but now they are making it harder for you to actually learn or control your system.

If you want to throw away 5% of a 200GB disk then use Diskdrake.

If you prefer to keep the disk you paid for then use mkfs!

 

etc. etc.

 

On the opposite end are LFS etc.

In other words the correct distro depends on the person and their time they wish to spend and control over the system. Slackware/LFS/Gentoo/Debian perhaps are purist distro's. Suse/Mandrake and the old RH are intermediate and Xandros/Lycoris or Lindows are for the people who just want it to work.

 

In the end any driver for Xandros or Lindows will work with Debian or debian based distro's. Any lycoris driver will work for rpm based distro's.

 

 

BTW I think more than half the marketing of Lindows is bullocks, things they can't deliver on. I would not like Mandrake to exhibit the same behaviour.

Lindows marketing gets their name out there, but IMHO not in a respectable way.

Yep that is what I thought and Darkelve too.

However we were both very pleasantly surprised when we tried it.

 

They sold it as "Help defend Linux and get something really cool in exchange". Kind of like Gowator said in his remark.

Yeah OK thats a cheap trick quoting myself being quoted!!!

BUT like aRTee said,

4) they have Gael Duval, whereas Lindows has MRobertson...

I think a fundamental difference seems to be that Robertson understands marketing.....

He made me feel like i did something worthwhile AND at the same time I get something to justify the cost/donation.

 

Mandrake sem to do the oppositie.....

Like download edition = 3CD's = FREE

Offical CD's = 2 CD's = 40 euros

Powerpack = 7CD's = 70Euros....

 

Like I said before theirs no buy in....i.e. Why not give a years club membership with buying the Powerpack!!! Give something other than the extra rpm's and a whole load of commercial demo's.

I get this with Lindows....

I get some free commercial stuff and also a reduction on StaroOffice etc. as a member. Its subtle but one makes me feel like my contribution is appreciated, the other like they don't care I went out and bought the powerpack.

 

In fact .. its almost the opposite. I buy the powerpack in FNAC etc. to encourage FNAC to stock Linux and inparticualr Mandrake. (For those not knowing which i know doesn't include darkelve or aRTee FNAC is a big music/technology chain in france and Europe)

I do not trust Mandrake to deliver ANYTHING on time. I wouldn't use mail order if I had no other way to get it. So I went out to buy the DVD edition powerpack and couldn't find it. It isn't in the stores. I have as much intention of sitting there with 7CD's as I have of spending XMAS on the moon!!! So then the choice was the 2CD version for 40Euros or the 3CD version for FREE.

Like I said before, kinda a no brainer!!!

[aRTee]

Gowator,

 

I agree with plenty of what you said, but in any case, Mandrake is still a pure linux and pure FLOSS. Lindows is not. MSWindowsXP is also very nice to use (in the opinion of many satisfied customers). It doesn't change what it really is. Same for LindowsOS.

 

You're right about the docs on mdk tools. But those tools are not open at all at lindows. Can you compile your own kernel in lindowsOS at all?

 

 

For anyone wanting to tweak their own system, there is no reason not to start based on Mandrake and just not use the draktools at all.

 

Ok, you have some problem due to your nforce board. Hmm, closed source drivers.... Hmm closed source....

You see my point? We have to move to open source software completely, including open source drivers, to be really free.

 

 

In any case, yes Mandrake's presence is not what it should/could be. Have you seen RH lately? Times are changing, the good old ways are not good anymore.

 

I stand by my points, Lindows is proprietary is bad, Mandrake is GPL is good.

EVEN IF IT HAS MORE BUGS AND TAKES MORE TO GET TO RUN/USE PROPERLY.

 

But I'm now sounding like RMS, I guess.

 

 

BTW I'd much rather have dinner with Duval than Robertson.

Sure Robertson gets marketing. But that is not a plus, imho...

 

 

BTW:

If you want to throw away 5% of a 200GB disk then use Diskdrake.

 

?? Since when does that happen? Did I miss something here?

[Gowator]

I agree with plenty of what you said, but in any case, Mandrake is still a pure linux and pure FLOSS. Lindows is not. MSWindowsXP is also very nice to use (in the opinion of many satisfied customers). It doesn't change what it really is. Same for LindowsOS.

 

No i agree, i wouldn't recommend it to a noobie who want to learn BUT I would to my mum whoo just needs internet access. + unlike windows its MINE...not leased and i can copy it, and use it on as many PC's as i like. Neither do i need to buy a new version, I got LIFE membership for $100!!!

Im using it right NOW becuase the mandrake machine is FUBAR becuase of the nvidia problem...

(yeah the graphics and the nforce....same as you...mysterious freezes) this has been running over a week now on lindows....

 

You're right about the docs on mdk tools. But those tools are not open at all at lindows. Can you compile your own kernel in lindowsOS at all?

Erm, running it now, that was the last reboot (honest)

Just apt-get the source from debain although the Lindows click n go does have some sources too.

For anyone wanting to tweak their own system, there is no reason not to start based on Mandrake and just not use the draktools at all.

 

Ok, you have some problem due to your nforce board. Hmm, closed source drivers.... Hmm closed source....

You see my point? We have to move to open source software completely, including open source drivers, to be really free.

Yeah aRTee, i agree..... but i want stuff working in the meantime..... Still havn't got my DVD recording working in Mandy....but I bet it works under Lindows.... just like the DVD playback of encrypted DVD's which is the next point. I do it legally, I could do it at work unlike the dubious nature of libdvdcss....

Now I agree dvd encoding should be open but your wasting your breath (or fingers convincing me, I already beleive it, your preaching to the choir). Its also only 5$ for a LIFe license though .

In any case, yes Mandrake's presence is not what it should/could be. Have you seen RH lately? Times are changing, the good old ways are not good anymore.

 

I stand by my points, Lindows is proprietary is bad, Mandrake is GPL is good.

EVEN IF IT HAS MORE BUGS AND TAKES MORE TO GET TO RUN/USE PROPERLY.

 

But I'm now sounding like RMS, I guess.

Yeah i agree BUT thats for me and you, not the masses. Why else am I still persevering with mandrake <G> but overall it does represent a CHOICE for the masses who don't wanna compile kernels or even drivers!!

In a way the new nvidia installer is good. It autocompiles and often ever works <G> shame its not opensource BUT you can always use the nv if you want. Nvidia gave away enough details for decent support but kept their IP on the openGL and stuff under their hat for now!!!

BTW I'd much rather have dinner with Duval than Robertson.

Sure Robertson gets marketing. But that is not a plus, imho...

I'd like to see em at dinner together

BTW:

If you want to throw away 5% of a 200GB disk then use Diskdrake.

 

?? Since when does that happen? Did I miss something here?

:woops:

Erm, bascially its the default for mkfs and diskdrke doesn't let you choose any tuning parameters which is 5% allocated root space for the inode tables etc. makes ense on a 10GB drive but not on a 200GB drive.

BUT

thats my point..... many people will use diskdrake without knowing and theirs no technical manual, the manual claiming to be technical is like.... pressing ext3 will create an ext2 journaled filesystem....

 

Basically the removal of linuxconf is a BIG step back IMHO for mandrake.

Its getting harder and harder to get the tools outside of the draketools from the offical sources.

 

Most of all i suggest you try it.... its not half as bad as the critics make out and i agree with the opensource movement BUT thuis really is an alternative for the masses and any alternative is better than non. Personally i'd prefer mandrake to put back some control and document the wizards properly and keep being a distro for noobies to LEARN linux becuase they sure as hell won't on Lindows.

[aRTee]

1) I will not try Lindows in any case.

It is the MS of linuxland and I won't waste my time on that.

SuSE, FC and Debian are interesting to me, as is Gentoo.

 

Lindows will never run on any machine that I have control over. There just is no point. As there is a point to having MSwin running in certain occasions (not on my workstation, but if my wife really needs it, she needs it. No-one needs Lindows here..)

 

Interesting side fact, Q: can you really install Lindows on as many machines as you want, legally?

 

Anyway, how come you can't get your mandrake running properly, but have time to do the lindows thing? Talkabout wrong priorities!! :) :P

 

Getting dvd playback is really easy on Mandrake, how you put that as a negative point for Mandrake and a positive one for Lindows beats me.

Oh and btw the DMCA is not in effect in europe/france, so there's really no worry about libdvdcss and you may install for dvdplayback at work without any kind of risk. BTW today John Johansen was aquitted for the second time. Hooray. Some legal systems seem to work.

 

BTW on Mandrake you don't have to compile any kernels or drivers, if you can download stuff from the clubmirrors they have all that.

 

 

 

This HD stuff is weird, since diskdrake just calls the normal commands and as such is just a frontend to mke2fs andsoon. I just used it yesterday, worked like a charm. If you need to get deep down and tune stuff, suppose they put all this stuff into diskdrake, then everyone starts complaining that there are too many options and newbies can take the wrong ones and things are just too complicated etcetcetc.

 

 

Last)

I will never try Lindows. Ever.

:P

 

And actually, as post last: I think you shouldn't either...

[Gowator]

"Interesting side fact, Q: can you really install Lindows on as many machines as you want, legally?"

 

Yep.....its specifically stated. I can have the laptop edition and the desktop edition too.

 

I agree on you and your wife but how about your mum or wifes mum???

 

"Anyway, how come you can't get your mandrake running properly, but have time to do the lindows thing? Talkabout wrong priorities!! "

Yep BUT... the PCMCIA has never worked on this laptop AND Mandrake. It works with Deb/Knoppix and Lindows.... see the trends!!!!

 

Installing Deb... was well challenging BUT it worked.... in mandrake best I could get was removing the PCMCIA from the init.d !!!!

Installing lindows really was 10 minutes!!!

I wrecked my mandrake box and wanted something that would just work.

Mandrake steadfastly refuses to boot with PCMCIA and I had a copy of Lindows given to me (illegally) by a friend. So I tried it, it worked and since i was using it I did the honest thing!!!

 

DVD playback is easy BUT.... 1) the propreirtry driver ARE better on my old laptop, they even allows on the fly recording!!!

2) they are legal. that is I could use them at work. Since my company has offices in America and (OK i don't need to point out the problems with the AMericans thinking they can dictate through sanctions or tarifs to the rest of the world) but we can't use it because the American system would penalise our american office. We had the whole thing over dealing with Libya, after the UN sanctions were lifted and America threatened to seize our assets in the states becuase they considered it illegal by their laws and we had an affiliate in the US.

 

However Good news on Jon....

Incidentally this is why mandrake doesn't put libdvdcss into the distro, not becuase its illegal anywhere but the states BUT becuase of economic pressure, even if they made a special US version they would be penalised inthe states for selling the european/asian/rest of world version with support where its legal.

 

"BTW on Mandrake you don't have to compile any kernels or drivers, if you can download stuff from the clubmirrors they have all that."

 

Unless your nvnet is not available then your a bit stuffed, no NW=no download!!!

 

 

"This HD stuff is weird, since diskdrake just calls the normal commands and as such is just a frontend to mke2fs andsoon. I just used it yesterday, worked like a charm. If you need to get deep down and tune stuff, suppose they put all this stuff into diskdrake, then everyone starts complaining that there are too many options and newbies can take the wrong ones and things are just too complicated etcetcetc."

 

Yeah the point is really if Mandrake us a distro of the 'intellegent noobie' as opposed to lindows for the 'sheep noobie' then they should document it etc and even suggest you learn about mkfs perhaps just a splash screen BUT somewhere.

OK, you or I can look at the source and see whats happening but many people can't or don't have time.

The problem is mandrake add stuff to make the wizards work and like shorewall often do it in a strange way that will not work with the manufactuerers/programmers documentation BUT even worse after destroying the programmers documentation bymaking the setup incompatible with the programmers documentation (which for shorewall is excellent) they stop you easily recovering from their failed 'defaults'

 

ive nothing against the wizards if they were documented and if they encouraged people to understand but they seem to be doing the complete opposite.

 

Now i want linux conf dfor the NIC setup but I can't have it till I get the NIC working. I guess I will just do it by hand but they took away the intermediate tool leaving only the CLI OR wizards.

So now im going to have to spend a few hours doing what linux conf would have done in 3 minutes!!!

 

 

Anyway. I tried it and i was impressed or at least found a lot of the FUD is unfounded, like the no source code or running as root or 1001 other things. Honestly i think its a lot of FUD and although I don't 100% support the direction they have gone i still think overall it is a choice for many.

It also represents great value...

 

AND it has also put a lot back into opensource, not everything but a lot.

Mandrake isn't exactly contributiong right now either.... its lean times.

However you might not agree on what they contributed, like some development of Wine... or the funding for the Xbox linux project... (all about free choice to use your box however you want)

 

Click n run is propretryfor good reason, it allows access to licensed software.

But most important I found after using it and reading the license etc. its nowhere near as bad as I had thought. I'd be agreeing with you before I tried it myself....

[Gnubie]

Lindows is hardly the MS of the Linux world. They are released a HTML editor for free (as in speech and beer) whereas MS would have made it closed source and welded it into the OS.

 

The only thing Lindows and MS have in common is they both want to make money. What's so wrong with that?