aRTee Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Well, can't blame me for standing by on the side -- before I mail the link to HP, IBM, Dell (even though I'd like an amd laptop), Toshiba, Sony etc,.... :P Have a look here and tell me if I missed anything on the linux dreamlaptop: The Linux Laptop Challenge What else is needed to be satisfied with your laptop? Note: I don't own a laptop, have used one 4 years ago during one year (IBM Thinkpad P133)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 2 Quick points: 1) How about GPL driver's. Perhaps not to exclusion but more points for anyone who can get the basic functionality completely GPL. 2) OK, so you'll buy one. How about a subscriber page where we can all register out interest and a counter showing number of prospective sales! Great Idea though aRTee Oh, don't forget to email apple!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRTee Posted February 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 1) good point, I will add something like this: Parts for which GPL drivers are available instead of parts with same performance without GPL drivers (ethernet, wlan, audio, etc) The point is, for graphics you will not get 3d, tv out etc without closed source drivers... 2) hmmm, I can make a guestbook or so; maybe it's better to let them reply in a thread here, or on PCLO (there is better since they allow anonymous/unregistered users to respond)....? Emailing apple? well, they do sell neat laptops without MSWin, so maybe I should get one of those... On the other hand, they disqualify somewhat since on price performance they are not up to speed. Unless you're talking a G5, ... but they don't have G5 laptops yet I think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzalezgii Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Hey it all sounds good! Just spell check and it will all be set. I can't wait until someone makes a move because I'm growing weary of all these laptops that don't display the full potential of Linux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Yeah I thought about the GPL and specifically nvidia.... Erm, the Matroix chipsets do 3D and TV out from the opensource drivers but they don't do laptop chips .... I think if you kinda point system it., like no 3D without closed source is OK and you don't get a point deducted (although if someone manages then I guess they get 10 added :D) But things like the NIC and modem should be 100% opensource or points are deducted. (just floating ideas here) Prob with GPL is the stipulation they have to be sold in the states and Europe. Kinda knocks DVD playback on the head unless its Lindows or Mac. Same for the wifi if its 802.11G... Im not sure unregistered or anon users would look so attractive... they might think it was like a petition with mickey mouse et al making up the middle pages... What sort of performnace are you looking for ? Those g4 macs are faster at a lot of things than most PC's. Even the laptops. The G4 is way faster than any CISC clock for clock ... the G5 is the world fastest chip by quite a margin on MIPS. The next fastest is the IBM power 4. the graphics are FAST... DVD playback exceptional... no jerkyness at all and they come with built in gigabit AND airport. Price wise.... they are not so bad... if you add 20% for style they are on a par :D desirability wise (drool) and they run linux :D battery life is ... I can't remember but something incredible... If the ones in Surcouf didn't have azerty keyboards Id be 1400 Euros worse off...several times its the keyboard thats stopped me :D Seriously I couldn't believe the number of people at the Linux expo with Mac's (especially laptops) ... The KDE stand had several... But the other big reason is every new mac user is one less MS number and it all counts for the hardware manufacturers. OS-X seems to have had a very positive effect on Linux drivers and labelling linux compatible on the box... since if they add it for Mac they mightest well recompile it for Linux too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonMage Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Let me add a couple of things 1. Easily accessible bios 2. PS/2 port for external mouse (yeah we can use USB, but why waste them if there is a port for it) 3. Parallel and serial port (you have no idea how many people still use these two "obsolete ports", printers are still easier to setup with parallel than usb). 4. Working "extra buttons". If there are extra buttons for internet, media player, etc, they better work and configurable 5. Good speakers and audio jacks 6. Ability to play CDs without turning on the whole computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Scrimpshire Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 This is a great idea. I also suggest a guestbook there instead of offsite where people can register their intent to buy one. But, it does need to be non-anonymous, as Gowator suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRTee Posted February 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Very good points. 1) what's wrong with my spelling? If you notice any errors in spelling and or grammar, send me a pm please. Note: I use British English spelling: analyse not analyze etcetc. Gowator, I wasn't really planning on making up a point system, but that may be the way to go, sounds good. Dragonmage: the bios point: great! Also, it has to be expanded: firmware (dvdburner or whatever) and bios updates should be easy (not require windows, as is sometimes the case) ps/2 port? Not so sure, great results on usb with kernel 2.6 so far; both ps/2 and usb mouse working in xfree without adding a second section to the xfconfig -- that's really good about 2.6kernel, it just works. I guess I'll add ps/2 in the optional section. Never had a parallel printer on my machine, never had bigger problems on a usb printer (that was well supported) -- what do other people think about parallel and serial? If the onboard modem works, why serial? Working extra buttons!!!! Yes, this is on the 'must' list, maybe already implicitly, but I better make it explicit. Good speakers and audio jacks -- good speakers on a laptop? Wouldn't everybody want that? Audio jacks: yes; but that's standard no? Will add anyway. Ability to play cd's: good idea for optional points. I have no way to make a non-anonymous guestbook, unfortunately. In that case, we better open a thread here, and they'll have to register here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 aRTee Hmm. i really like the idea and I'm just floating stuff here so if you want to tell me to shut up its your idea go ahead, I won't be offended. There is a speeling :D mistake, can't remember what but I spotted it. Anyway, its difficult to come up with a 'perfect laptop'. The portability vs power thing is always a tradeoff. Personally I think that laptops are better used as 'laptops', not replacement desktops .... if you want something to use in two places like a college dorm and home or work and home then your better off with a luggable desktop like a 'shuttle'. This being said .. (and i appreciate DragonMage has a different and equally valid view) I prefer NOT to have parallel or serial. I prefer tinny but light speakers to good ones (based on cost and weight) There are very few places you can respect others AND be using the laptop as a laptop. If your using it on a train or plane then headphones are more appropriate etc. so i don't wanna lug the extra weight around for the sake of it. When Im in a hotel etc. I usually plug the audio into the TV speakers for instance. Another point is driving speakers drains the battery. serial/Parallel/floppy ... they are just legacy. (I HATE floppies, my laptop floppy is disabled via inserting a screwdriver through the floppy and twisting a lot.) Its a long story ..... To me a laptop is a work device..... its also an entertainment machine etc. BUT workwise printing is something I do over the network. Same at home, all my printing is via cups ... when I wanna pack my laptop it involves pulling out the USB hub with the keyb and mouse, sometimes the external monitor.... So whats really IMPORTANT to me.... Network / network / network Absolutely fundamental because that's how i print, store data, make backups, etc. Built in wireless would be nice. USB 2 - Because thats how in extremis I'd attach a printer or a external disk and keyb/mouse. And the absolute fundamental of a laptop BATTERY ! Long life is good but so is replacement batteries. Once the battery is screwed then it merley becomes a poor luggable desktop. To me a laptop is once of those things that depreciates 80% the day you buy it. Its not upgradeable (excluding mem and disk) so your stuck with the graphics card etc. Having said ALL that about it being a work machine, I appreciate its ability to keep me entertained while travelling .... TV out. - You don't need any drivers. Most laptops seem to do this via hardware/bios... My laptop has a absolutely rubbish graphics card but using the function keys does the TV out.... Anyway, the are my ideas of what a laptop should be/do. Its your bat and your ball ! But i think you might have do define a purpose for the machine. Is it desktop replacement OR easily portable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRTee Posted February 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Ok, very good feedback. One thing I already thought of yesterday, forgot to mention: weight and size. I think there is one point that is not clear (enough) on my site: there is not necessarily only ONE winning model. Or only ONE winning company; maybe I should indicate different categories? So there can be a legacy free model, no floppy, no serial/parallel/ps/2 but 8 usb2 ports, cardreader, bluetooth, WLAN, GLAN etc. A desknote with all the power you might want but just 2.5hrs battery life -- has to have all the extra's including dvd burner, coffee maker: just use for one hour, turn it over and put the kettle on the back...... :P An ultra light one, 12" (still xga naturally): 5hrs battery life, less than 4 pounds Something else I just thought of: memory should be expandable to 2GB or so -- apparently there are laptops for sale even today that have 512MB onboard, but can be upgraded only to 768MB. Don't laugh, it's true. With linux mem management, lots of memory keeps the disk activity low, and prolongs battery life (apparently). BTW usb2 printers? Mice? all on usb1 afaik... but I vote for usb2 ports anyway. Didn't know about the tv out, thanks for this info. Not always true, a colleague of mine just got a Dell -- really nice except for being preloaded with winXP and apparently not completely linux compatible, and even with the preloaded XP he only has black and white on his tv, hasn't managed to get things right yet...... As an aside, yesterday I got an email from emperorlinux.com, the linux laptop salessite -- their laptops are quite nice, but one thing in the email (that was a reply to something I once put on their website as feedback) stuck me: even if you don't request a dual boot laptop, they still come with the winXP license, since that's how the manufacturers sell them - they will not sell them without the license!!!!!!!! Incredible! More thoughts? Keep 'm coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 aRTee, Im just leaving the office to go the UK for a week... But there is a french laptop distributer that guarantees the latops are 100% linux compatible AND XP free. Its often in the back of login: Ill try and find it and forward it to you. p.s. USB 2 yes definately, I know the keyb and mouse only need to be USB1 but any laptop today should be USB2 compatible. If its built in wifi and fast ethernet network then even PCMCIA is optional. Perhaps you could make a class of things each laptop should be capable of doing to give some focus! Hint of the Dell, is he using Never The Same Colour Twice (NTSC) perhaps or SECAM on a PAL TV ??? This tends to screw the colours up. I think its CTRL+ALT+F5 on a dell but the TV out is set in bios.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDog Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 even if you don't request a dual boot laptop, they still come with the winXP license, since that's how the manufacturers sell them - they will not sell them without the license!!!!!!!! This may be because of the agreement they have with Microsoft. Some OEM's have (or at least had in the old days) an agreement with Microsoft saying that they had to pay a license to Microsoft for every machine buildt, no matter if they deliver it with or without a Microsoft OS. In return they get a good price on OEM licenses so that they can make money on the OS too. I would love to be able to buy a laptop with Linux preinstalled and save money on the darn Microsoft OEM license I don't need, tell me where to sign up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRTee Posted February 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Gowator, will tell the Dell owner -- we have Pal tv's here, no ntsc or even Secam (ah, ze frensh, alwaiz zer own zyztem...), but it could surely be that. Do send me the name+link of that french reseller! TopDog, could be,.. but I saw alternate.de selling lots of laptops without MSWin, and considering the price, they haven't got the included license... Ah well... As an aside: any links to sites of vendors with linux laptops are also welcome, even if they only sell locally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRTee Posted March 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Started the official thread here: http://www.mandrakeusers.org/index.php?showtopic=11961 Just remembered I didn't specify anything about RAM (amount available and max amount) so will have to edit the web page; also, I changed a bit and upon reflection I realise that it is not so clear, so will do some other edits too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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