sarah31

the only patch arch had on their kernel was the ptrace patch for 2.4.20. since we use gcc 3.3 our kernel maintainer may have had to patch a few sound drivers to get the latest kernel to compile (i know i had to buid out a few cyrstal sound drivers to get my test build to work)

as much as i don't require DE's leaving them out of your distro is a bad idea. if you want people to use it you NEED to have one or both. there are plenty of serious users that will not trifle with a distro that does not have these DE's. KDE is considerably easier to maintain and gnome is not. core libraries are not what you need to be thinking of really i mean you need them but most of a common linux base is applications such as ncurses, gzip, pam, etc. libraries usuallly come is as depends but what yiou put in base should be all you need to have a perfectly working console boot. oh and having a default DE/WDM is likely not what you would want to do either from the way you are talking. lots of people like flux but it is far better to leave the selection up to the usetr just have a few WDM and one of the two DE's that they can choose. one WDM should be really sparse like ratpoision or something or fvwm2

hmmm...i think you are jumping ahead of yourselves a bit trying to plan out want you want in your distro, live cds and such. first you have to determine if youcan do it! do the lfs thing and learn all you can first of administrating, dealing with dbs, security, etc. then when you are sure you have the time and knowledge go ahead. if you don't know bash, C and C++ learn them because it will help a GREAT deal in trouble shooting when you have build errors. one thing you don't get a good idea of using distro s with packaged binaries and prebuild build scripts is just how many time you have to patch source for it to build. as well packaging thing like perl packages can be a very labourous process. Or packagaing things like NVIDIA drivers. are you going to include binaries (ie flash, jre/j2sdk) or wouled you be willing to compile something likw OpenOffice. OpenOFfice is NOT easy to build at all. Lots of patches involved and a good knowledge of C++ is a huge benfit. and so forth. .... just more devils advocacy (i do this too when friend s consider going into business for themselves)

damn you didn't even mention the two things that EVERY person who uses open source should learn to use to become more independent: google.com/linux and freshmeat or sourceforge forums are great but even us vets get tired of the retitive nature of soem questions. one of the best quick solutions to many problems is to copy your error into a google search or into a search on this and many other forums (i suggest justlinux.com). once you learn how to use the tools available to you you become better equipped to help others and yourself.

actually not all the work on distros is GPL. alot of the major distros handy tools and installers are all closed source. i also strongly strongly strongly disagree that making a distro is easy. i doubt any developer would tell you that. just ry maintaining a four package plus tree for several months on your own. try packaging up gnome. building from source OpenOffice.org. another thing that i don't and will not ever agree with or follow is LSB. i am all for standardization but sometimes the implimentation of standards get all muddled up. LSB is one of those muddling of standards. (So is the CGC in comic collecting as another example.) I am glad that the distros i like or am interested in do not comply with LSB and never will. just my 2 canadian cents

do you even realize how much work it would be ? you have to learn init scripts, have very strong base in understanding C/C++ and othe r languages, you have to design you package manger (if you are having one) then have another app that can automate you packahing procedure, you should know how tho deal with PAM, evetually integrate secure packages, you have to have servers and know the ins and outs of all administration of those servers, determine who is to be in control of those server and the write acces to them, etc. i am not trying to discourage you but it is ALOT ALOT ALOT of work. I am only a package manger for arch linux but i could easily spend 8 hours a day just maintaining packages. i consider myself fairly knowledgable but there is no way in the world that i would ever consider taking on the task of making my own distro. just some words of caution. like a business i think you should do alot of research to see if you are even capable of taking on the task you are thinking of. talk to other developers (ie i am sure, if you can corner him one night apeiro (judd) the main arch developer would be willing to discuss what needs to be done)

well depending on how you installed the kde stuff (selected it during install or went through the list on the webpage) there should be no unresolved dependencies (well at least if youare using the -S option). anyway if you want to make sure you have all the dependencies, and if you don't mind having ALL of the kde stuf simply do: su to root run abs (just type abs) when that is complete: cd /usr/abs/kde pacman -S `/bin/ls` (please note those are forward quotes not this ' quote) then answer the the questions that follow(basically you will be asked if you want to install the kde package set and related dependencies then you will be asked if you want to install existing kde packages). this will surely satisfy any dependencies that were not met when you originally installed.

okay first i must ask if you are graphically logging in with kdm or gdm. if you are then .... well i dunno what to suggest because i have been logging in without kdm or gdm for so long i have to admit i no longer know how to use them at all. if you are logging in without a gui then all you need to do is edit your ~/.xinitrc that should have been created when you created your user (provided you created your user via the manner suggested in the documantation and that documentation has not changed (i don't look at the docs much any more). there should be a list of exec commands for start various window managers and (if memory serves) gnome and kde. if they are not there then just add: exec startkde (i think) exec gnome-session if you are or want to use gdm or kdm then i would suggest seeking help on the arch linux forum (or searching that forum) for using these login managers. i am so rusty with them and they have changed so much that i would not want o give you bad advice. EDIT: oh yeah in .xinitrc you leave the DE or WM that you want to use uncommented all other should be commented (have a "#" at the beginning of the line) or you will not get into any of them.

just checking :wink: kinda pointless but feh i had nothing to do at the time except make fun of you :P it really doesn't matter how old it is. it is not as old as, lets say, slack but it is not a new or young distro anymore. the only time age excuses work for me is with regards to the size of a distros package offerings. even then time is not always a good excuse. changes to a distro (whether one considers them needed or not) will only come as fast as the developers can produce them. gentoo RH or mandrake changes may come quicker because they have lots of developers. other distros, such as arch linux or libranet (which i don't really consider a distro so much as an installer and some gui tools but it works for my arguement), don't often change as fast as the users may want because they have far less developers. i have used the age arguement before for arch and gentoo but really it boils down to the number and expertise of the developers. i can tell you arch linux developers work every bit as hard to produce as good a distro as possible. it may not be pretty like mandrake or rh or as polished but it does work and it does require a certain amount of knowledge patience by the user. the same was true for gentoo, but gentoo is getting to the point now that with all of the developers they have that they should be able to correct bugs quickly and quietly (which i think they do for the most part). thats what i expect from any distro with a big development team (which is why i stopped using mandrake...at the time i used it they fixed one thing and broke another or beta releases actually surpassed the performance of final releases)

hmm, age isn't relative man ;-) it's one year old. that's it's age...you may be thinking maturity....anyways, it's a moot point. and gentoo supports as much hardware as any linux distribution..... :? gentoo one year old :? i think it is nearing it's third birthday (or past it)

pacman -S <pkgname> package name are all lower case and literal, for example: pacman -S j2sdk pacman -S cdrtools to search for a package in the trees: pacman -Ss <search string> there are three package repositories available (though there in really nothing much in unstable). BUT to get access to the unofficial and unstable tree you have to edit your /etc/pacman.conf and uncomment the [unofficial/unstable] and the servers listed under it pacman -Syu will sync with the package database and inform you of upgrades. if you installed from cd then you MUST upgrade pacman first (pacman -Su pacman) orhter wise you will hit a string of annoying errors that relate back to some minor changes in the pacman code and how it interacts with the database. man pacman will give you more usage terms.

there is nothing in /dev/cdroms? how is your fstab set up? for example: /dev/cdroms/cdrom0 /mnt/cd iso9660 ro,user,noauto,unhide 0 0 /dev/cdroms/cdrom1 /mnt/cdr iso9660 ro,user,noauto,unhide 0 0 /dev/floppy/0 /mnt/fl vfat user,noauto,unhide 0 0 none /proc proc defaults 0 0 tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults 0 0 sarah@ArchLinux:~> ls /mnt cd cdr fl images if you are trying to load them as scsi don't forget to load the modules via rc.conf or rc.local or even /etc/modules.conf

heh maybe it will be yoper if you are gone for a few more days :P

better is very subjective :wink:

no i always just use / , swap and /home

i would agree. but being the member of so many forums out there i know alot of the tactics of gentoo users. they have no trouble belittling other distros and user sof those distros. when i have tried to push arch linux in the past as a good fast light distro without all of the compiling time i have been called a noob (or similar things) and people who have not even tried the distro criticize it simply because it is a precompiled binary distro. i just went on the just linux forum and tried to defend arch against criticisms of someone who used the distro for three days and thought he knew what arch is all about and how it works. he makes claims that gentoo is better out of the box because of very simple things in the package manager and speed wise. other gentoo people continue to do similar attacks on other distros too. it is just pathetic especially when you are one of those people that has taken time to learn things and realize that thes gentoo zealots are so full of themselves and s**t. basically i gave up trying to push ANY distro i just push curious users to do their own exploration of places like distrowatch. there are other choices and most if not all distro s have the potential to be as good or better than gentoo. THAT is my point. it is great that people love gentoo but i wish these people would spare use all of the endless repetition of the glories of gentoo and the porliferation of myths that gentoo is the ONLY option out there for fast and effective. i wish too that these peoples criticisms of other distros were actually based on true problems with the distro instead of problems that are a result of their lack of knowledge and inexperience (ie i know more people that do NOT have dependency hell than do and i know at least one precompiled binary distro that is faster than gentoo and two source distros that are better managed and developed) there is choice out there.....i want people to know that. arch linux is one of them, but there are others. no distro is perfect but any distro can be perfect for the right user.

heehaw

what amazes me is tht gentoo zealots go around barking about all that gentoo does that other distros don't do. oddly enough though is that all gentoo does have over some distros is speed and dependency handling. i also note that the majority of its loudest supporters : 1. came from a situation where their main distro was an RPM distro 2. they have the most problems. 3. have learned nothing (ie "my gentoo box is fast because it is compiled for my archtecture" "you only install what you need not what you don't" "it is not easy to install") 4. couldn't install debian (even after using gentoo) 5. think gentoo is the bestest distro out there when in fact they have no concept of what other distros are trying to do (for distros like mandrake the target is to get as many people using linux as possible while making the transition as smoooth as possible to this end they sacrifice certain things such as huge piles of incredibly stupid CFLAGS etc) well i'm bored now thanks alot gentoo zealots......for a real learning experience i too suggest lfs.

xine has the ability to take its own screenshot...just press the icon on the controller that looks like a camera :roll:

well i didn't notice anything but i must note that my entire distro was not recompiled with xp optimizations. that being said i ran gentoo for a few weeks with xp optimizations then moved over to arch linux and definitely noticed a speed difference with just plain old -march=i686 -O2 -pipe options. my guess is that there is not much difference between the two though as the i686 set prolly has most of what is needed by the xp optimizations less a few efficiency optimization that would gain you very small performance or speed gains.

never said it wouldn't do that but ...heck read above if you don't understand then oh well. .. mandrake is i586 optimized so stepping up to athlon-xp is a fairly big step...not significant but eneough that you will notice more speed.

okay don't get me wrong you will gain speed when compiling for your architecture (i586 or i686) over distros that still use generic i386 optimizations. that is obvious. but whe you get up to differences between i586 and the divisions within those the most of the options that deal with speed are not that different nor are speed differences that noticable above the obvious speed difference you get between processors (obviously a i586 chip will be slower than an i686). most deal with the technical differences between say a pentium and amd chip. while it is better for your system to run compile options that suit your chip these optimizations do not always result in speed bumps. they deal with sending data through the proper channel. think of it this way. because i have new shoes on today that fit my feet perfectly and are light as heck does tha mean i will run faster today than i did with my old shoes? another good example of this is running Debian and Libranet. Both the same optimizations but Libranet is (or was when i used both) faster. As i added more services to what i was running on Libranet the system got slower and slower until it was about the same load times etc as my plain debian install. basically optimizations are good and i recommend them but they are NOT the sole reason that makes one distro faster than another. one of these days i will give LFS a try too. that is a matter of having the time.

sigh. 1. only doing lfs will you learn the most. honestly...or maybe rock linux. gentoo strips ALOT of steps out for the user. with LFS you have to learn how to do it all from creating your install to setting up the init script and administering everything. gentoo strips most of this out. 2. COMPILING FOR YOUR ARCHITECTURE IS NOT WHAT MAKES GENTOO FAST!!!! cut down the services you run in mandrake or debian and you can gain alot more speed just doing that alone. there is alot more to making a fast efficient distro than just compiling your own source. in fact one would have to be pretty fricken perceptive to detect the difference between the same processor (lets say an AMD XP 1800+) running the same apps with the generic -march=i686 -O2 -pipe optimizations and -march=athlon-xp -O2 -pipe. or start optimizing with even simple -O3 and watch the miili seconds of difference....if your app can even run with -O3 flags. 3. With Gentoo you do not have as "bare" distro as you might think. i know from my package maintianing duties at arch linux that many build dependencies are just that build dependencies. as in those packages are not required for the appliction to run. often a user wil never even require the packages at all. with gentoo you often are stuck with these because many ebuilds do not or cannot handle the removal of build dependencies without taking the target package with it. by no means are you risking serious amount of disk space with such dependencies but with enough of them it will begin to add up. binary distros don't have this problem. 4. A great many distros allow you to install a simple bare base (most of these are devoid of X even) to which you can add what ever you want. so from this point and taking into mind dependencies to take to boxes to the same end point would see both haveing essentially the same thing. of course "user friendly" distros such as mandrake would automate something to the detriment of system efficiency but if you know where to look for the configuration files and know what changes to make there is no reason not to have a system that is every bit as good speed and efficiency wise as gentoo or other source based distros. 5. Portage is no big deal. So it solves dependencies and compiles source. big deal. with the right knowledge you can do this with any system. dependency solving package mangers are common now and portage is just another one of them. it is no better. 6. If you ever do work as root be carefull that you always always always always don't remove something that will force you to reinstall your root (ie watch out in /lib, /bin, and so forth) because you will have to take all those many hours to recover. while your are spending hours compiling openoffice or kde us binary distro users are already installed, fixed up, and have ripped our entire dvd, cd and video tape collection. basically if your developers know what they are doing with there binary distro and their focus is not as lofty as mandrake then there is no reason a binary distro cannot be every bit as good or better than gentoo.

tnxs

SCO=stupid computer organization. suing to make money for a dying business will only put them out of business faster. but what do you expect from SCO/Caldera? these fools could not keep their heads above water even if they were filled with helium.