jlc Posted July 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 To me the ideal would be all the sources on a CD to avoid downloading - not pre-compiled binaries. I know that they are compiled for all the various different systems, but you can't take advantage of USE flags. Less control over your system - and control over your system is one of the things that makes gentoo cool You could alway's re-emerge your system with the settings you want afterwards. I've done that building from stage3 so I could have it up faster! Wouldn't that defeat the object of having a CD? You'd have to download all the sources. The ideal would be the source for everything in portage on a collection of CDs. So I can install from stage one without needinga fast internet connection Why wouldn't the CD's have the sources? Do you think they will be RPMS or something??? I don't see why you couldn't move the src from the cd's to /usr/portage and if you wanted to rebuild with differnet optimiztions you could. As long as you don't emerge sync it will still think everything is the same. Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunni Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 I got the impression that they were all binaries on the CD. Am I wrong? If not, then you are right, I could just re-emerge the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlc Posted July 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 I got the impression that they were all binaries on the CD. Am I wrong? If not, then you are right, I could just re-emerge the system. I'm not sure, I'm wondering the same thing?? :wink: In any case, I imagin if you buy the Athlon addition it will probably be pretty optimized. But a lot of US here are TWEAKERS and we can't help ourselves, we like to push it until we break it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunni Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 I just checked on the website - the CDs contain pre-built binaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlc Posted July 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 I just checked on the website - the CDs contain pre-built binaries. Does that mean they wont have ebuilds? What are there pre-built binaries considered to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunni Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Included in the 2-CD set: * Disc 1: Installation LiveCD: includes a complete set of stage tarballs, kernel-related sources, and key "core" system packages like Xfree86, hotplug, metalog, and more. * Disc 2: Applications: contains over 600MB of pre-compiled applications such as KDE 3.1.2, GNOME 2, OpenOffice, Mozilla, mysql, postgresql, Apache 2 and many more. * Instructions: printed instructions included. No idea what the format is or how you install them. Perhaps there are all new ebuilds which simply install the binaries instead of compiling from source Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulSe Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Doesn't installing from prebuilt binaries destroy the whole point of what has beome known for being a built-exactly-for-your-system distro? I want to try Gentoo because it is so streamlined, if I wanted a distro that made assumptions and used binaries, I would just use mandy... or am I missing something? I was under the impression that the cds would be the same as the original install, except you would have all the stage files so you wouldn't have to waste time downloading.... It's seems lame for them to do it the prebuilt way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunni Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 That's exactly what I think. I wonder if this has been done as a reply to those who complain about gentoo taking so long to install. I guess this way you could have a system up and running in a couple of hours - or probably less. But, as you say, it defeats the object Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 I wonder if this has been done as a reply to those who complain about gentoo taking so long to install.I'm sure it does, and it's great! What exactly do you think is the difference between "pre-compiled applications" that are optimized for an arch, and building yourself with the same standard config optimizations? Nothing. Like rpmbuild --rebuild --target= in mdk builds an rpm to install, and you install it. Is it only optimized until it's installed? No. Wouldn't you like mdk to release 9.2 for the athlon arch? You betcha would! :wink: Why? It would be optimized and not have to burn cpu life. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunni Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 But it doesn't allow for USE flags. If I'm using OSS for example insteadof ALSA -and everything is compiled to use ALSA, then I have to go through and configure things. I may never want to sync with a palm device, and yet palm syncing apps may get installed. One of the reasons I left mandrake for gentoo was that with gentoo, I could install exaclty what I wanted. That's something that I always struggled to do with mandrake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Nope, it doesn't, but that's something that's rarely needed by most of us. Its called "Marketing" and that's what a business does. I'm sure source on cd's is next on the agenda but "Marketing" means you only get thrown a bone and given water just b4 you pass out and not a moment sooner. You can bet they know that'll sell, but so will this, and a version or two down the road, they'll throw us another bone (that cost twice the price) and those of us with dialup will buy that release as well. Remember.....'Marketing'. Without 'Marketing' we would've had P4's 3.2, Athlon 3200's, and MoBo's/Chipsets with 400fsb's over a year ago, but without this thing called 'Marketing' the Corp. World would be starving....and so would you and I :wink: I was supprised when ML9.1 was available for free download from a Co. that was startving. Now look at Mandrake. IMO, 9.2 shouldn't be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlc Posted July 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 I mentioned this earliaer, 1.3 or some other vesrion had packages on the downloads cd for Gnome, KDE, Mozilla & OOo. You simply run a script and they installed. But I believe the ebuilds were still there. Like bvc mentioned, it's marketing. There is no doubt that Gentoo has taken the Linux users by storm, everyone wants to tweak there system, and when gentoo came out, everyone got all crazy about it. I did over a year ago and thought it was the coolest thing since sliced bread. It is a nice distro, I wont take that away from them. Just because there selling a version with pre-built binary's doesn't mean you cant tweak it out. I think it is a GREAT move for them to gain more momentum. They used to offer Stage3 in athlon, i485, 586 & 686, that's all there doing now. only they have it more refined and are pushing it better in my opinion. Gentoo will be another Slackware, Debian, RH, SuSE & Mdk, there in it for the long haul, there not going away anytime soon. You can bet your bottom dollar on that. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulSe Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Well, I'm not as knowledgable as you all about Gentoo and the whole portage system and and and.... So, the only question I want answered is: If I use this cd-based release, will I still be getting a super-optimised system? Will it have all the advantages of traditional Gentoo :?: I use Mandrake because it doesn't give me problems, is quick and has nice drakes to make configuring my system quicker and easier. It also has urpmi and comes with some great packages. I wanted to try Gentoo because it is streamlined and I only have to install what I need, plus the portage system sounds great and I would like to try it out. I never could install Gentoo because I run on dialup and am quite busy. So, these cds might solve my time and dialup problem, but are they going to give me the same Gentoo? I don't care why right now, I just want a yes or a no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 "super-optimised system" is pushing it because as phunni pointed out, it doesn't appear that you can use USE FLAGS. But would you have? You'll get stardard optimizations for the arch you choose to purchase for sure, but if you want more than the 'standard' you'll have to redo it all. The beauty is that, with a working sys, you can do a little at a time once installed. Will I? Doubt it, the speed increase you'll get wih custom USE FLAGS over standard isn't worth the time and effort IMO. Others will argue that, I'm sure, because some are never satisfied (like I use to not be) ....not to mention that we don't know what their USE FLAGS are. What did they use to build them? I'm sure it's on the conservative end though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunni Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Soulse: simple answer is - it will be more streamlined and optimised than Mandrake, but not so much as a "traditional" gentoo install. You will also still find that any software in portage (or anywhere else for that matter!) will still have to be downloaded and compiled/installed. The fact that the "big bad boys" of the software packages are on the CD will make a huge difference though. Basically whether gentoo can be used by someone with only dialup if they use the CDs remains to be seen - it seems like a possibiblity though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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