Please Help! Major Kernel Problems

[Mitchell]

Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone can help me out with my kernel dilemma. I'm running 2007 Spring on my Desktop, with the 2.6.17-13legacy stock kernel that came packaged with the Live 'Mandriva One' cd. All up I'm really loving it, and have gotten rid of Microsoft Windows as a main partition, and have it installed under Virtual Box for programs I haven't transfered over yet. REALLY looking forward to the day I can get rid of it totally, which is getting closer. I'm hacing trouble installing a CRM like 'Sugar' which will transfer everything across, but that's another story.

 

Anyway, I have been trying to update my kernel to a more recent release, and my graphical desktop environment keeps crashing. I have tried installing the kernels, devel, and dkms packages for 2.6.17-14, 2.6.20, 2.6.22, and variations on all those themes with smp and tmb, with no luck. The same problem keeps occuring. System boots up fine, (minus a few error messages I'll get to), but after logging in to my X windows environment in Gnome, my graphical display is severely limited. Can still SEE al the same graphics, but I have no window borders, can't move windows anywhere, have no cube workspace (which is supported fine right now), and can only open one window at a time, which generally ends up in the top left hand corner, to disappear under another window if I open up another program. When I click on the 'show desktop' icon in the bottom right hand corner, I'm told that I have no display manager. Highly frustrating.

 

Unfortunately, when I reboot with the stock kernel (2.6.7-13legacy) I have the same problem. The only way I've found to restore my desktop to normal has been to either a.) Re-install or b.) restore to an earlier time with Mondo. (which is basically the same thing)

 

Can someone tell me what's going on?

 

In the verbose boot up mode, I see that there are issues with the new kernels in installing my madwifi, ndvidia, and ati (graphics card) packages. There are a few others but I can't remember what they are. I've tried selecting the dkms and devel packages for these, and while occasionally I've been able to get them to build themselves in the new kernel boot up, I still have the same problems. Usually I'm told there are multiple versions of ati, and I must resolve manually. So I have gone into the linux src folder and removed all but the one I want (for some reason simply removing the packages won't work.) This fixes that particular error message on boot up, but nothing else.

 

I've been wanting to update my kernel to fix a bug with my wireless card, and to optimize my computer's performance. Am running i686 architecture, with only an i586 kernel. My processor supports hyperthreading, and I'd like to install more ram... (currently with 512ddr RAM) For all this I understand I need to update my kernel. Also would simply like to know how to do this anyway. What am I doing wrong? What's failing on me, and what do I need to do to sort this out? Is it something to do with my graphics card, and somehow configuring the new kernels to support it?

 

I've just installed the latest updates for kernel 2.6.17-15, have made a complete backup with Mondo, and am about to boot into it. Am expecting the same thing to happen. I'd really really appreciate anyone's advice who can help me through this. Thanks again in advance. Cheers,

 

~Mitchell

[Mitchell]

Just tried kernel 2.6.17-15legacy, same problem. Installed all the dkms packages... source code, etc. Same problem. Got error messages along the lines of "ndiswrapper bad exit status: 101" and "nividia71xx Build failed installation skipped". Got lots of build failed messages. With virtualbox, hsfmodem, etc. Am rebooting and doing system restore with Mondo. Any ideas?

[arctic]

I've been wanting to update my kernel to fix a bug with my wireless card, and to optimize my computer's performance. Am running i686 architecture, with only an i586 kernel. My processor supports hyperthreading, and I'd like to install more ram... (currently with 512ddr RAM) For all this I understand I need to update my kernel. Also would simply like to know how to do this anyway. What am I doing wrong? What's failing on me, and what do I need to do to sort this out? Is it something to do with my graphics card, and somehow configuring the new kernels to support it?

If you run an i586 or i686 or i386 processor is not really of importance. A difference in performance is (my experience) not noticeable at all. Also, for upgrading your RAM you do not need to install any new kernel. Thus you can stick to the i586 kernel. If there is no real (!) need to upgrade a kernel, I'd stick with the one that works. I remember that I had not upgraded the Mandriva kernel in my laptop for a full year. Did I experience problems? No. Did I need to upgrade the kernel? Nope, 'cause everything worked fine.

 

About the wireless-bug: Well, is it related to the kernel or perhaps to some different package? I would start some troubleshooting before "blindlessly" upgrading packages, hoping that they might fix a bug. Read the security advisories/announcements that Paul posts here regularly. They will help you to determine if the bugfix is necessary for your system or if it might even break some custom configuration you did. (Remember that server administrators usually check updates thoroughly (reading, testing on a test-rig) before applying them to their systems. What they do should basically be done by everybody else imho). Furthermore, as you now have these problems, boot in failsafe mode and check the most important log files, that is

/home/username/.xsession-errors

and

/var/log/messages

/var/log/dmesg

If there are errors reported in there, read them carefully. If you do not understand the errors that are reported there, post them here, so everybody can help troubleshoot.

 

From what I saw so far, I believe that the problem you have is not caused primarily by the kernel but by the nvidia, ati and ndiswrapper modules that somehow conflict with kernel commands. But I could be wrong.

[Mitchell]

Thanks Arctic, that's good advice. There were several reasons for wanting to upgrade my kernel. The bug I was having with my wireless card was the first thing, I believe it was causing system freezes. Noticed bcm43xx coming up in my /var/log/messages file immediately before my system froze (could only unfreeze by doing a manual reboot). I disabled the firmware cutter, and it actually got worse, with error messages from bcm43xx almost continually in /var/log/messages. Was unsure how to fix it, so I pulled out the card entirely, and have since had no problems. Nothing similar in /var/log/messages, and no problems whatsoever with freezes.

 

I was told in another thread ( https://mandrivausers.org/index.php?showtopic=43016 ) that it was very likely a problem with the bcm43xx firmware cutter, as they seemed only to support a few cards in the 2.6.17 kernel versions. This seemed to be confirmed to me by someone else with similar problems running a broadcom chipset in their wireless card (I was using belkin). I was told an upgrade to a more recent kernel may fix this. Of course it's possible this wasn't the problem, that there was some other configuration error, but there seems to be something in this. Currently my wireless card is pulled out. Before I buy a new one, I would like to test other possibilities.

 

Secondly, when I looked into new kernels, I discovered several things. I am unable (supposedly) to use any more than 1 Gb of RAM with the 2.6.17.13legacy stock kernel. Also, I discovered that this kernel doesn't support hyperthreading. So in effect, I'm only using half of the processing speed my dual-core chip is designed for. My computer registers two chips, but documentation I've read says that regardless it's only using half the speed unless I have a smp kernel installed. Mandriva is still much faster than Windows ever was, but before I upgrade my RAM, I wish to optimize my processing speed.

 

Thirdly, I'm determined to know Mandriva, and particularly Linux, inside and out. There are too many things I don't know how to do yet. Part of the reason for installing Mondo is so I CAN stuff my system (which I manage to do regularly) and return it to a time before I crashed it. This is part of the learning process for me. While I appreciate your advice about not touching it if it works, I need more than that. I want to understand WHY it works, and how to make it work better. Currently I'm running Windows under Virtual Box for business reasons, and VirtualBox runs VERY slowly. To fix this I'd like to upgrade both my processor capabilities and my RAM. I also want to figure out how to do this anyway...

 

Thanks for your time Arctic, and I really do appreciate your advice. I would however, (even if I regret it later) like to learn what I need to do to upgrade my kernel, and fix these current issues when I try. Are you able to help me, or point me in the direction of someone who is able to? I'm aware that Mandriva 2008 is being released shortly, and that the new stock kernel for that release is 2.6.22. I'm under the understanding that this kernel will be able to support hyperthreading technology (hope I'm correct in this), and also will (very hopefully) have more support for broadcom wireless cards. We shall see. But before then, and actually, even after them, I'm determined to learn how to upgrade this kernel. Thanks again Arctic!

Edited August 31, 2007 by Mitchell

[arctic]

Ahhhh.. I remember the thread (I have been on holiday, thus couldn't follow it all the time), where adamw told you that there are probs with the bc43. He should know, as he actually works for Mandriva (and is a friendly and knowledgeable chap, too).

 

I guess a way to make your life a bit easier is to install Mandriva also to a second partition (doesn't have to be big... 3 or 5 GB only) only for testing purposes. I did that once, too, when I had a problem with my internet that I wanted to fix. One rather untouched Mandriva installation and one for fiddling around until I find a fix and then implement the fix on m default Mandriva installation. That saved me a lot of time and nerves, as I was able to test e.g. cooker kernels and such stuff without hosing my main system. You could try this approach, too, thus having one box where you test the cooker smp kernel and/or some other packages (maybe even an untouched vanilla-kernel that you compile on your own but that is a bit more complicated. The tips&tricks or FAQ section should have a guide for compiling a kernel) that might stabilize your system.

 

I don't know if you know about Cooker already, but it is the software repository, where Mandriva tests and stores all packages for their next releases. I suggest that you free up a little bit of space at the end of your /home partition (or somewhere else), set up a reduced Mandriva installation (leave out OpenOffice and other big software packages you don't need for testing) and adjust the grub bootloader so that it holds a further Linux OS (give the test-OS a name like "test" o that you know later which boot entry belongs to which system). Once you have that extra system up and running, use our easyurpmi link at the top right side of the page, set up Cooker mirrors, install e.g. a new smp-kernel through the MCC software section and give it a try.

[Mitchell]

That's a great idea! Thanks for that. Am in the process of setting up another hard-drive anyway at some point, so I might buy some more memory and install on that. Actually, for awhile I was trying to fix problems on my desktop, and was using my laptop as a stable system. It worked, but as my laptop is over 10 years old, was a bit slow...

 

Anyway, will look at that over the next few weeks, your right, there seems to be heaps of info out there on kernels. Really unsure why the x windows environment would play up though...possibly a problem with my ATI graphics card...

 

Am in a film shoot with a Uni (university in Australia) course at the moment, and don't have much time to fiddle around with getting this setup... or with fixing my computer when I hose it. Am looking forward to this while I'm less busy. Question about cooker though, most of the kernels seem to be in the main suppositories, I can find a large variety in the package manager, which isn't currently configured to get cooker packages. While anything past 2-6-17-15 isn't supported offically, there are others there. Are these the ones you meant? Also, I installed from Mandriva Spring 2007 Live cd. How do I install this with the bare minimum packages? Everything was done automatically. Are there other sources I can use? Thanks Arctic,

 

~Mitchell

[iphitus]

Am in a film shoot with a Uni (university in Australia) course at the moment, and don't have much time to fiddle around with getting this setup... or with fixing my computer when I hose it. Am looking forward to this while I'm less busy. Question about cooker though, most of the kernels seem to be in the main suppositories, I can find a large variety in the package manager, which isn't currently configured to get cooker packages. While anything past 2-6-17-15 isn't supported offically, there are others there. Are these the ones you meant? Also, I installed from Mandriva Spring 2007 Live cd. How do I install this with the bare minimum packages? Everything was done automatically. Are there other sources I can use? Thanks Arctic,

 

What uni? I'm studying at RMIT.

 

As for the window borders thing, it sounds like your window manager is crashing -- hence no 3D desktop etc. Try disabling 3D desktop, and the regular metacity should work fine.

[Mitchell]

What uni? I'm studying at RMIT.

 

As for the window borders thing, it sounds like your window manager is crashing -- hence no 3D desktop etc. Try disabling 3D desktop, and the regular metacity should work fine.

 

 

I'm at Deakin Uni, studying theatre making. Being on a film-set is a first for me, and a great learning experience. I'm more familiar with creating live theatre shows with kids, my wife and I run a children's theatre company, Curious Legends.

 

When the windows manager crashes, there is no option in the MCC to disable or select anything, they are all greyed out, and I'm told my graphics card doesn't support this (forget the exact words, been awhile). Also, I definitely want the 3d desktop enabled, as that is one of the best features in Mandriva. Was a huge deciding factor in migrating from windows. Any other ideas?

[arctic]

Question about cooker though, most of the kernels seem to be in the main suppositories, I can find a large variety in the package manager, which isn't currently configured to get cooker packages. While anything past 2-6-17-15 isn't supported offically, there are others there. Are these the ones you meant? Also, I installed from Mandriva Spring 2007 Live cd. How do I install this with the bare minimum packages? Everything was done automatically. Are there other sources I can use?

1. The kernels in the main repositories are not identical with those of cooker. Cooker has the 2.6.22 kernel, which is not available in the main repos. (AFAIK, the backports has a 2.6.20 kernel, but nothing newer, but I could be wrong (currently don't have backports enabled)).

 

2. for installing with the bare minimum of packages, you will have to use either the "2007.1 free" version on CD or DVD or the spring-free-mini CD, which has only a minimal amount of packages from where you are expected to install the stuff you want/need manually.

http://www.mandriva.com/en/download/free

This mirror has all versions available:

http://ftp.esat.net/pub/linux/mandrakelinu...ial/iso/2007.1/

[Mitchell]

Thanks Arctic. According to my repository list there is the 2.6.21.5 kernel available, and I don't have backports or cooker available either...

 

Anyway, Thanks for the list of both sites, I'll check it out when I get a spare moment. I installed from the live 2007 spring cd, and uploaded everything else, so I might try that. Also, if I install from the 'free' version (dvd I assume), my understanding is that propriety drivers are left out. Can I download these from the mirrors afterwards, or do I need to install them specially? Cheers!

 

~Mitchell

[arctic]

Most proprietary stuff is available through the "non-free" mirrors.