Newbie-please help with partitions.

[asjuser]

Hello. I downloaded the 3 CDs of Mandrake 9.2, figuring I'd install it on my computer running Win XP Home. I have a 120 gig hard drive that was, at the time, in one big 120 gig NTFS partition. I booted the computer with the Mandrake install disc 1, got to the part about partitions, and told Mandrake to resize my partition so that there would be 10 gigs for Linux and everything else would be for Windows. Well, I did this, and then powered off my computer, because I was wanting to verify that my NTFS data was okay. Anyway, when I powered my computer back on, I got the dreaded dead LG-CD-ROM drive error (I know, I'm an idiot, I didn't even check to see if my CD-ROM was an affected model beforehand, apparently it was). Thus, my computer couldn't recognize that disc drive, it was dead. The computer still booted into Windows, though, and everything worked fine (except that the CD-drive was not recognized.) Anyway, fortunately I was able to call tech support and order a new drive, it's on its way now. In the meantime, I have totally abandoned Mandrake 9.2, there's no way I'm risking my hardware. My computer runs fine now. The only thing that bugs me is that 10 gigs (the 10 gigs I had siphoned off of the Windows partition) are missing from Windows' description of the hard drive, that is, in My Computer the HD shows up with a capacity of 10 gigs less than it actually has. Under computer management > disk management, Windows doesn't seem to recognize that there is (I assume) 10 gigs of unformatted space on the drive; although it lists the disk's capacity as 120 gigs, the Windows volume is less than that. Anyway, my question is: how do I get this space on the HD back? I don't want to stick Mandrake 9.2 back into my computer (I don't care about firmware updates. I just want to avoid messing with that as much as possible.) Why doesn't Windows detect that space left over after resizing the partition? Now, I do not believe that I told MDK 9.2 to create a new partition: I was messing with the dialog box and was confused as to whether to select 'Linux native' or 'ext3' or whatever, so I selected nothing. I want to know whether I can get that extra space back, or whether a full reinstall of Win XP will detect that space. Also, do you think that if I download Fedora Core 1 (which I'm currently looking at), it will recognize the extra 10 gigs and install itself there, or at least give me the option to format that extra space as FAT32 or something that Windows can recognize? Thank you.

[Cannonfodder]

Couple things..

 

1. When linux creates an extended partition (let me know if you don't know what that means), by default, it uses its own extended partition format in the partition table. Windows doesn't recognize this. Linux recognizes both linux and windows extended partition formats. Therefore, after rewriting the partition table, its good advice to stay away from windows disk manager. If you try making any changes, you stand a good chance of totally scrapping your partition table and you will have to start over with everything.

 

2. Why are you uninterested in a firmware patch? It would have fixed your LG drive (LG right?).

 

3. I may be wrong about this, but only Mandrake had this issue with the LG cd rom drives. Maybe you should try a different distro. Otherwise, you need to boot off of CD1, restart the install, and when you get to the partitioning screen, yoiu can remove the 10 gig partition mandrake created. You can also try to find a linux boot CD from another distro and do it there.

 

4. Usually, I recommend a second drive to experiment with linux. This way you will not take any risks with your windows partitions. I've blown mine away a number of times until I caught on about the extended partitions issue.

[Steve Scrimpshire]

Doesn't

 

fdisk /mbr

 

work from a Windows rescue disk, cannonfodder?

[asjuser]

Thank you for replying. Just some clarifications/questions. Forgive me, I know nil about Linux.

 

1. When linux creates an extended partition (let me know if you don't know what that means), by default, it uses its own extended partition format in the partition table. Windows doesn't recognize this. Linux recognizes both linux and windows extended partition formats. Therefore, after rewriting the partition table, its good advice to stay away from windows disk manager. If you try making any changes, you stand a good chance of totally scrapping your partition table and you will have to start over with everything.

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand what an extended partition is. And, when you say to stay away from the Windows disk manager, you mean don't mess with the Disk Management tool under XP? It's still safe to just use the HD under Windows, right? I mean, normally, without messing with partitions. Daily use. You know.

 

-I don't know if Mandrake actually created a partition. All I know is that it resized my NTFS drive, and did -something- to the 10 gigs left over. If I boot from MDK CD1, then I should be able to see what happened, right? The only problem is that I don't want to do that. Even if there is a patch...I mean, I spent like 4 hours on the phone about tech support to get the CD drive replaced. I'm just...ah, I know it makes no logical sense, maybe, but MDK 9.2 just left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd rather do something where I know there's absolutely no risk, if you see what I mean.

 

-Incidentally, are LG CD-RW/DVD drives affected by the bug? I have one that I suppose I could connect, but only if they 100% are definitely not affected.

 

-Will another Linux distro CD recognize what Mandrake did? I'd like to install Linux (just not Mandrake...) but for now, I will stay with Windows and try Linux on one of my older, non-critical PCs. So...Do you know of any distro CDs I should try for this, and are they capable of 1. getting the partition table into a format XP can recognize and/or 2. formatting that partitioned off area into FAT32 (so XP recognizes it?)

[ezroller]

If you want to just try linus and not have to worry about risking ruining data on your windows box, you really need to play with knoppix or more importantly: mandrake-move. both are "live cd's" you boot from cd into a working linux distro. I give 30 minutes maximum before you are intrigued beyond belief and back here worried about how to back up your data so you can migrate to linux.

 

http://www.knoppix.org

 

http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/mandrakemove

[Cannonfodder]

Doesn't

 

fdisk /mbr

 

work from a Windows rescue disk, cannonfodder?

Steve, that command (as you know :) ) will replace the master boot record with the default win98 boot. But I didn't think he had a problem booting into windows. Just has a problem with a missing 10 gig?

[Cannonfodder]

I'm sorry, I don't understand what an extended partition is.  And, when you say to stay away from the Windows disk manager, you mean don't mess with the Disk Management tool under XP?  It's still safe to just use the HD under Windows, right?  I mean, normally, without messing with partitions.  Daily use.  You know.

 

A partition table is a sector on your hard drive that contains information about what partitions exist, their OS, and their start/end locations on the hard drive.

 

Originally, hard drives only supported 4 partitions maximum. Then someone had the bright idea of supporting more partitions by designating one of the 4 primary partitions as an extended partition. Within that partition, you can make as many partitions as possible. They are in a sense, called virtual partitions. You can only have one extended partition plus 3 primary partitions. Thus you can have C:, D:, E:, F:, G: so on... in windows. or have multiple mounted partitions in linux.

 

This scheme has stuck around for backwards compatibility and also I think because we are still using BIOS to start up our computers.

 

Windows has a scheme for designating a primary partition to be used as a extended partition. In the partition table this is an entry with certain identifiying codes.

 

Linux also has a scheme for designating a primary as an extended. However, it uses different codes and formats in the primary table. Given a hard drive though, a linux disk utility will understand how to manipulate and deal with a windows extended partition or linux extended partition.

 

Windows Disk Manager, however, does not know how to deal with a linux extended manager and if you use it to make changes to your hard drive, it will try to either fix it or simply misread what it means. The end result is that when you reboot, your partitions are no longer accessable because it screwed up the partition table information.

 

Thus, if you share windows and linux partitions on the same drive, you should refrain from using the windows disk manager from making changes. This also applies to win98's fdisk.exe application. This does not apply to using

 

fdisk /mbr

 

which simply replaces the master boot record (restores it) but doesnt make any changes to the partition table.

 

-I don't know if Mandrake actually created a partition.  All I know is that it resized my NTFS drive, and did -something- to the 10 gigs left over.  If I boot from MDK CD1, then I should be able to see what happened, right? 

 

If Mandrake resized your partition, then its possible that it either..

 

1. made changes to your partition table that windows doesn't understand. In other words, made and extended partition.

 

2. Simply didn't format that 10 gig and thus windows will not mount it. Probably this one.

 

3. In any case, until you know what is happening, you should not use the disk manager from XP.

 

The only problem is that I don't want to do that.  Even if there is a patch...I mean, I spent like 4 hours on the phone about tech support to get the CD drive replaced.  I'm just...ah, I know it makes no logical sense, maybe, but MDK 9.2 just left a bad taste in my mouth.  I'd rather do something where I know there's absolutely no risk, if you see what I mean.

 

-Incidentally, are LG CD-RW/DVD drives affected by the bug?  I have one that I suppose I could connect, but only if they 100% are definitely not affected.

 

From what I understand, LG drives and also a few other brands cut some corners with their disk controller software and Mandrake updated some code that asks the CD drives to do something they should have been able to do but ended up screwing up the drives. The screw up is fixable with a firmware patch though. You didn't need to buy another drive.

 

I recommend you search this board for some links on the LG issue and then follow through to other links on google so you have a good understanding of the issue.

 

-Will another Linux distro CD recognize what Mandrake did?  I'd like to install Linux (just not Mandrake...) but for now, I will stay with Windows and try Linux on one of my older, non-critical PCs.  So...Do you know of any distro CDs I should try for this, and are they capable of 1.  getting the partition table into a format XP can recognize and/or 2. formatting that partitioned off area into FAT32 (so XP recognizes it?)

 

I would recommend downloading 9.1 (I'm using that right now). It didn't have this issue period. Then you can boot off of CD1, go to custom partitioning in the installer and see what happened. If it didn't do the format, then you can continue with the install into that 10 gig partition or format it as FAT32 (vfat in linux) so that it shows as a 10 gig drive in windows under D:.

[bvc]

win9x=fdisk /mbr

winxp, 2k=fixmbr and/or fixboot

[Cannonfodder]

You can also use fdisk with 2k/xp. It's a basic mbr that points to the first partition on the first drive.. eh eh?

[asjuser]

Thank you! I think I will try Mandrake 9.1 and use its disc 1 to see what happened, probably install MDK 9.1 as well if it doesn't have the CD-ROM issue. Thanks a lot.