Jump to content

xboxboy

Members
  • Posts

    507
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by xboxboy

  1. I booted into both linux mint and pclinux, neither see the raid array, but both hard drives are identical, with only one partition on each. Not sure what mandriva is doing, given its seeing different things.
  2. Ian, thank you for this help. Its most appreciated. I've been back into windows, and it appears to be working fine. I've been googling a bit and it appears the ich10r controller is faily new and not supported in a lot of distros. It appears to be very similar chipset to the ich9r, so I may have to see what others have been doing to use that. I think I'll boot into a live distro, and see if I can see whats on those disks in the array, as like you say they should be identical! I have checked the manufacturer, both board and intels, and neither have a linux driver for the ich10r. I am surprised its not working under linux as the installer asked if it should use the array, so its detected, but somewhere along the line it's not configured right.
  3. Yes Ian you're correct. I have three actual physical drives: 1X500gb boot disk 2X640gb drives connected through the intel ich10r controller in raid 1 formation. Im still confused. In windows I have the array as drive d. One identity for the array. Windows doesn't see two disks. (I can view the separate disks through the intel software) Am I able to have one identity for the array, where if I save a file to the array, the ich10r controller takes care of the duplication across the two drives?
  4. I forgot to mention, there should be no partition on the array, as I am yet to put data on it. If there are partitions already there (I cant understand why dm1 has partitions) they may be fragments from when I tried booting off the array.
  5. Thanks once again Ian. [matthew@localhost ~]$ ls -l /dev/mapper/ total 0 crw-rw---- 1 root root 10, 62 2008-12-11 06:38 control brw------- 1 root root 252, 0 2008-12-11 06:38 isw_bebgibagai_Cleggett08 brw------- 1 root root 252, 1 2008-12-11 06:38 isw_bebgibagai_Cleggett08p1 [matthew@localhost ~]$ Yes, both of those are 640gb which are used in the array.....I have 2 X 640gb running in raid1 (mirror) Thanks,
  6. [root@localhost matthew]# fdisk -l Disk /dev/sda: 640.1 GB, 640135028736 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 77825 cylinders Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes Disk identifier: 0xf6ce6f14 Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sda1 * 1 77825 625129281 7 HPFS/NTFS Disk /dev/sdb: 640.1 GB, 640135028736 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 77825 cylinders Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes Disk identifier: 0xf6ce6f14 Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sdb1 * 1 77825 625129281 7 HPFS/NTFS Disk /dev/sdc: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes Disk identifier: 0xc9fdc9fd Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sdc1 * 1 6457 51865821 7 HPFS/NTFS /dev/sdc2 6458 13886 59673442+ 5 Extended /dev/sdc5 6458 7476 8185086 82 Linux swap / Solaris /dev/sdc6 7477 13886 51488293+ 83 Linux Disk /dev/dm-0: 640.1 GB, 640132714496 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 77825 cylinders Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes Disk identifier: 0xf6ce6f14 Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/dm-0p1 * 1 77825 625129281 7 HPFS/NTFS Disk /dev/dm-1: 640.1 GB, 640132383744 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 77824 cylinders Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes Disk identifier: 0x69205244 This doesn't look like a partition table Probably you selected the wrong device. Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/dm-1p1 ? 13578 119522 850995205 72 Unknown Partition 1 does not end on cylinder boundary. /dev/dm-1p2 ? 45382 79243 271987362 74 Unknown Partition 2 does not end on cylinder boundary. /dev/dm-1p3 ? 10499 10499 0 65 Novell Netware 386 Partition 3 does not end on cylinder boundary. /dev/dm-1p4 167628 167631 25817+ 0 Empty Partition 4 does not end on cylinder boundary. Partition table entries are not in disk order [root@localhost matthew]# [root@localhost matthew]# 1vs bash: 1vs: command not found [root@localhost matthew]# vgs bash: vgs: command not found [root@localhost matthew]# cat /proc/mdstat Personalities : unused devices: <none> [root@localhost matthew]# [root@localhost matthew]# cat /etc/mdadm.conf cat: /etc/mdadm.conf: No such file or directory [root@localhost matthew]# cat /etc/fstab # Entry for /dev/sdc6 : UUID=8d98e80f-5ff9-4d31-8f99-22eacfead24e / ext3 relatime 1 1 /dev/cdrom /media/cdrom auto umask=0,users,iocharset=utf8,noauto,ro,exec 0 0 /dev/fd0 /media/floppy auto umask=0,users,iocharset=utf8,noauto,exec,flush 0 0 # Entry for /dev/sdc1 : UUID=867893F17893DDED /mnt/windows ntfs-3g defaults 0 0 none /proc proc defaults 0 0 # Entry for /dev/sdc5 : UUID=aa3e9216-97b8-4828-a615-a6c962afe02b swap swap defaults 0 0 [root@localhost matthew]# Thanks for your help Ian. Some of those commands didn't appear to be applicable to mine install???? Im running 2008.1, is the NTFS read/write support safe to use for data storage? or am I better installing the ext3 driver for windows?
  7. They could also have one of their head gurus provide an article for national computer magazines. Doesn't have to be mandriva specific, but if its mandriva based, then that will also increase awareness. All we hear here in Australia is Ubuntu, fedora and suse, but all articles are written using ubuntu......I simply hate the theming and colours so have never even tried to get a stable system using ubuntu.
  8. Is it simply a matter of mounting this drive somehow?
  9. Thanks guys. Aussie John that card is punching out way more than mine!!! Ok so I have the Nvidia driver, so why do I not have the NVIDIA logo upon start?
  10. Ok so I now have 2008.1 up and running, with the Nvidia driver loaded as well. The Lan is running perfectly. Below are screen shots of the hard disk manager. How can I make it so I can access my raid array (mapper/isw_bebgibagai_cleggett08)? If possible I would like to have that in storage media. Can anyone advise me what device sdd is??? I dont know where this comes from! And sdc has a 49gb windows partition, 8gb swap and 49gb of mandy install. Thanks all
  11. Thanks Ian just run glxgears from a konsole and this is the result: [matthew@localhost ~]$ glxgears 39955 frames in 5.0 seconds = 7990.882 FPS 40594 frames in 5.0 seconds = 8118.642 FPS 41426 frames in 5.0 seconds = 8285.167 FPS 41467 frames in 5.0 seconds = 8293.237 FPS 41445 frames in 5.0 seconds = 8288.921 FPS 41444 frames in 5.0 seconds = 8288.725 FPS 41441 frames in 5.0 seconds = 8288.069 FPS 41441 frames in 5.0 seconds = 8288.190 FPS 41414 frames in 5.0 seconds = 8282.750 FPS 41404 frames in 5.0 seconds = 8280.760 FPS So it appears the nvidia driver is installed correctly yes?
  12. I also would argue that the user permissions with linux are far tighter than with windows. I guess a key logger type of program could work its way in, but it cant attack the system as it needs to have root privileges to do that.
  13. Thanks for reply danielwics, unfortunately that didn't do it. Is the xf86config at fault here?
  14. Scarecrow, When x windows load I dont have the logo. :( I would like the logo if possible. Here is part of my current xorg file Section "Device" Identifier "device1" Driver "nvidia" BoardName "NVIDIA GeForce 9300 and later" EndSection the backup xorg has the driver as nv so it looks like it installed the proper nvidia driver.
  15. Hi Ian. I found these instructions upon the net (Ubuntu forums actually). copied the driver files/folders into /Downloads cd into the src folder ran sudo KBUILD_NOPEDANTIC=1 make ran sudo KBUILD_NOPEDANTIC=1 make install cd to lib//modules......./atl1e then sudo insmod ./atl1e.ko I have no idea what that KBUILD_NOPEDANTIC does, but that method works, as I'm writing this throug 2008.1! YAY
  16. Im told I need to change CFLAGS to EXTRA_CFLAGS, but what part of makefile do I edit??? ########################################################################### # Copyright(c) 2007 Atheros Corporation. All rights reserved. # Copyright(c) 2006 xiong huang <xiong.huang@atheros.com> # # Derived from Intel e1000 driver # Copyright(c) 1999 - 2005 Intel Corporation. All rights reserved. # # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it # under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free # Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) # any later version. # # This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT # ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or # FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for # more details. # # You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with # this program; if not, write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc., 59 # Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA. # # There are a lot of defines in here that are unused and/or have cryptic # names. Please leave them alone, as they're the closest thing we have # to a spec from Atheros at present. *ahem* -- CHS # ########################################################################### # Driver files # core driver files CFILES = at_main.c at_hw.c at_param.c at_ethtool.c kcompat.c HFILES = at.h at_hw.h at_osdep.h kcompat.h ifeq (,$(BUILD_KERNEL)) BUILD_KERNEL=$(shell uname -r) endif ########################################################################### # Environment tests # Kernel Search Path # All the places we look for kernel source KSP := /lib/modules/$(BUILD_KERNEL)/build \ /lib/modules/$(BUILD_KERNEL)/source \ /usr/src/linux-$(BUILD_KERNEL) \ /usr/src/linux-$($(BUILD_KERNEL) | sed 's/-.*//') \ /usr/src/kernel-headers-$(BUILD_KERNEL) \ /usr/src/kernel-source-$(BUILD_KERNEL) \ /usr/src/linux-$($(BUILD_KERNEL) | sed 's/\([0-9]*\.[0-9]*\)\..*/\1/') \ /usr/src/linux # prune the list down to only values that exist # and have an include/linux sub-directory test_dir = $(shell [ -e $(dir)/include/linux ] && echo $(dir)) KSP := $(foreach dir, $(KSP), $(test_dir)) # we will use this first valid entry in the search path ifeq (,$(KSRC)) KSRC := $(firstword $(KSP)) endif ifeq (,$(KSRC)) $(error Linux kernel source not found) else ifeq (/lib/modules/$(shell uname -r)/source, $(KSRC)) KOBJ := /lib/modules/$(shell uname -r)/build else KOBJ := $(KSRC) endif endif # check for version.h and autoconf.h for running kernel in /boot (SUSE) ifneq (,$(wildcard /boot/vmlinuz.version.h)) VERSION_FILE := /boot/vmlinuz.version.h CONFIG_FILE := /boot/vmlinuz.autoconf.h KVER := $(shell $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -E -dM $(VERSION_FILE) | \ grep UTS_RELEASE | awk '{ print $$3 }' | sed 's/\"//g') ifeq ($(KVER),$(shell uname -r)) # set up include path to override headers from kernel source x:=$(shell rm -rf include) x:=$(shell mkdir -p include/linux) x:=$(shell cp /boot/vmlinuz.version.h include/linux/version.h) x:=$(shell cp /boot/vmlinuz.autoconf.h include/linux/autoconf.h) CFLAGS += -I./include else ifneq (,$(wildcard $(KOBJ)/include/linux/utsrelease.h)) VERSION_FILE := $(KOBJ)/include/linux/utsrelease.h else VERSION_FILE := $(KOBJ)/include/linux/version.h endif CONFIG_FILE := $(KSRC)/include/linux/autoconf.h endif else ifneq (,$(wildcard $(KOBJ)/include/linux/utsrelease.h)) VERSION_FILE := $(KOBJ)/include/linux/utsrelease.h else VERSION_FILE := $(KOBJ)/include/linux/version.h endif CONFIG_FILE := $(KSRC)/include/linux/autoconf.h endif ifeq (,$(wildcard $(VERSION_FILE))) $(error Linux kernel source not configured - missing version.h) endif ifeq (,$(wildcard $(CONFIG_FILE))) $(error Linux kernel source not configured - missing autoconf.h) endif # pick a compiler ifneq (,$(findstring egcs-2.91.66, $(shell cat /proc/version))) CC := kgcc gcc cc else CC := gcc cc endif test_cc = $(shell $(cc) --version > /dev/null 2>&1 && echo $(cc)) CC := $(foreach cc, $(CC), $(test_cc)) CC := $(firstword $(CC)) ifeq (,$(CC)) $(error Compiler not found) endif # we need to know what platform the driver is being built on # some additional features are only built on Intel platforms ARCH := $(shell uname -m | sed 's/i.86/i386/') ifeq ($(ARCH),alpha) CFLAGS += -ffixed-8 -mno-fp-regs endif ifeq ($(ARCH),x86_64) CFLAGS += -mcmodel=kernel -mno-red-zone endif ifeq ($(ARCH),ppc) CFLAGS += -msoft-float endif ifeq ($(ARCH),ppc64) CFLAGS += -m64 -msoft-float LDFLAGS += -melf64ppc endif # standard flags for module builds CFLAGS += -DLINUX -D__KERNEL__ -DMODULE -O2 -pipe -Wall -DDBG=0 CFLAGS += -I$(KSRC)/include -I. CFLAGS += $(shell [ -f $(KSRC)/include/linux/modversions.h ] && \ echo "-DMODVERSIONS -DEXPORT_SYMTAB \ -include $(KSRC)/include/linux/modversions.h") CFLAGS += $(CFLAGS_EXTRA) RHC := $(KSRC)/include/linux/rhconfig.h ifneq (,$(wildcard $(RHC))) # 7.3 typo in rhconfig.h ifneq (,$(shell $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -E -dM $(RHC) | grep __module__bigmem)) CFLAGS += -D__module_bigmem endif endif # get the kernel version - we use this to find the correct install path KVER := $(shell $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -E -dM $(VERSION_FILE) | grep UTS_RELEASE | \ awk '{ print $$3 }' | sed 's/\"//g') # assume source symlink is the same as build, otherwise adjust KOBJ ifneq (,$(wildcard /lib/modules/$(KVER)/build)) ifneq ($(KSRC),$(shell cd /lib/modules/$(KVER)/build; pwd -P)) KOBJ=/lib/modules/$(KVER)/build endif endif KKVER := $(shell echo $(KVER) | \ awk '{ if ($$0 ~ /2\.[4-9]\./) print "1"; else print "0"}') ifeq ($(KKVER), 0) $(error *** Aborting the build. \ *** This driver is not supported on kernel versions older than 2.4.0) endif # set the install path INSTDIR := /lib/modules/$(KVER)/kernel/drivers/net/atl1e # look for SMP in config.h SMP := $(shell $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -E -dM $(CONFIG_FILE) | \ grep -w CONFIG_SMP | awk '{ print $$3 }') ifneq ($(SMP),1) SMP := 0 endif ifneq ($(SMP),$(shell uname -a | grep SMP > /dev/null 2>&1 && echo 1 || echo 0)) $(warning ***) ifeq ($(SMP),1) $(warning *** Warning: kernel source configuration (SMP)) $(warning *** does not match running kernel (UP)) else $(warning *** Warning: kernel source configuration (UP)) $(warning *** does not match running kernel (SMP)) endif $(warning *** Continuing with build,) $(warning *** resulting driver may not be what you want) $(warning ***) endif ifeq ($(SMP),1) CFLAGS += -D__SMP__ endif ########################################################################### # 2.4.x & 2.6.x Specific rules K_VERSION:=$(shell uname -r | cut -c1-3 | sed 's/2\.[56]/2\.6/') ifeq ($(K_VERSION), 2.6) # Makefile for 2.6.x kernel TARGET = atl1e.ko # man page MANSECTION = 7 MANFILE = $(TARGET:.ko=.$(MANSECTION)) ifneq ($(PATCHLEVEL),) EXTRA_CFLAGS += $(CFLAGS_EXTRA) obj-m += atl1e.o atl1e-objs := $(CFILES:.c=.o) else default: ifeq ($(KOBJ),$(KSRC)) $(MAKE) -C $(KSRC) SUBDIRS=$(shell pwd) modules else $(MAKE) -C $(KSRC) O=$(KOBJ) SUBDIRS=$(shell pwd) modules endif endif else # ifeq ($(K_VERSION),2.6) # Makefile for 2.4.x kernel TARGET = atl1e.o # man page MANSECTION = 7 MANFILE = $(TARGET:.o=.$(MANSECTION)) # Get rid of compile warnings in kernel header files from SuSE ifneq (,$(wildcard /etc/SuSE-release)) CFLAGS += -Wno-sign-compare -fno-strict-aliasing endif # Get rid of compile warnings in kernel header files from fedora ifneq (,$(wildcard /etc/fedora-release)) CFLAGS += -fno-strict-aliasing endif .SILENT: $(TARGET) $(TARGET): $(filter-out $(TARGET), $(CFILES:.c=.o)) $(LD) $(LDFLAGS) -r $^ -o $@ echo; echo echo "**************************************************" echo "** $(TARGET) built for $(KVER)" echo -n "** SMP " if [ "$(SMP)" = "1" ]; \ then echo "Enabled"; else echo "Disabled"; fi echo "**************************************************" echo $(CFILES:.c=.o): $(HFILES) Makefile default: $(MAKE) endif # ifeq ($(K_VERSION),2.6) ifeq (,$(MANDIR)) # find the best place to install the man page MANPATH := $(shell (manpath 2>/dev/null || echo $MANPATH) | sed 's/:/ /g') ifneq (,$(MANPATH)) # test based on inclusion in MANPATH test_dir = $(findstring $(dir), $(MANPATH)) else # no MANPATH, test based on directory existence test_dir = $(shell [ -e $(dir) ] && echo $(dir)) endif # our preferred install path # should /usr/local/man be in here ? MANDIR := /usr/share/man /usr/man MANDIR := $(foreach dir, $(MANDIR), $(test_dir)) MANDIR := $(firstword $(MANDIR)) endif ifeq (,$(MANDIR)) # fallback to /usr/man MANDIR := /usr/man endif # depmod version for rpm builds DEPVER := $(shell /sbin/depmod -V 2>/dev/null | \ awk 'BEGIN {FS="."} NR==1 {print $$2}') ########################################################################### # Build rules $(MANFILE).gz: ../$(MANFILE) gzip -c $< > $@ install: default $(MANFILE).gz # remove all old versions of the driver find $(INSTALL_MOD_PATH)/lib/modules/$(KVER) -name $(TARGET) -exec rm -f {} \; || true find $(INSTALL_MOD_PATH)/lib/modules/$(KVER) -name $(TARGET).gz -exec rm -f {} \; || true install -D -m 644 $(TARGET) $(INSTALL_MOD_PATH)$(INSTDIR)/$(TARGET) ifeq (,$(INSTALL_MOD_PATH)) /sbin/depmod -a || true else ifeq ($(DEPVER),1 ) /sbin/depmod -r $(INSTALL_MOD_PATH) -a || true else /sbin/depmod -b $(INSTALL_MOD_PATH) -a -n $(KVERSION) > /dev/null || true endif endif install -D -m 644 $(MANFILE).gz $(INSTALL_MOD_PATH)$(MANDIR)/man$(MANSECTION)/$(MANFILE).gz man -c -P'cat > /dev/null' $(MANFILE:.$(MANSECTION)=) || true uninstall: if [ -e $(INSTDIR)/$(TARGET) ]; then \ rm -f $(INSTDIR)/$(TARGET); \ fi /sbin/depmod -a if [ -e $(MANDIR)/man$(MANSECTION)/$(MANFILE).gz ]; then \ rm -f $(MANDIR)/man$(MANSECTION)/$(MANFILE).gz; \ fi .PHONY: clean install clean: rm -rf $(TARGET) $(TARGET:.ko=.o) $(TARGET:.ko=.mod.c) $(TARGET:.ko=.mod.o) $(CFILES:.c=.o) $(MANFILE).gz .*cmd .tmp_versions
  17. [root@localhost AR8121-linux-ver1.0.0.7]# cd src [root@localhost src]# make install make -C /lib/modules/2.6.24.4-desktop586-1mnb/build SUBDIRS=/home/matthew/Download/AR8121-linux-ver1.0.0.7/src modules make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/linux-2.6.24.4-desktop586-1mnb' scripts/Makefile.build:46: *** CFLAGS was changed in "/home/matthew/Download/AR8121-linux-ver1.0.0.7/src/Makefile". Fix it to use EXTRA_CFLAGS. Stop. make[1]: *** [_module_/home/matthew/Download/AR8121-linux-ver1.0.0.7/src] Error 2 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/linux-2.6.24.4-desktop586-1mnb' make: *** [default] Error 2 [root@localhost src]# Where do I go from here?
  18. Hi Ian, sorry about slow reply, decided to redo the boot drive, so have been slow to resinstall 2008.1 The out put is: root@localhost ~]# lspci 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Unknown device 2e20 (rev 03) 00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Unknown device 2e21 (rev 03) 00:1a.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB UHCI Controller #4 00:1a.1 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB UHCI Controller #5 00:1a.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB UHCI Controller #6 00:1a.7 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB EHCI Controller #2 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation HD Audio Controller 00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation PCI Express Port 1 00:1c.4 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation PCI Express Port 5 00:1c.5 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation PCI Express Port 6 00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB UHCI Controller #1 00:1d.1 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB UHCI Controller #2 00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB UHCI Controller #3 00:1d.7 USB Controller: Intel Corporation USB EHCI Controller #1 00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev 90) 00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation LPC Interface Controller 00:1f.2 RAID bus controller: Intel Corporation 82801 SATA RAID Controller 00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation SMBus Controller 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation Unknown device 0641 (rev a 1) 02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Attansic Technology Corp. Unknown device 1026 (rev b0) 03:00.0 IDE interface: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88SE6121 SATA II Controller (rev b2) 05:03.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Agere Systems FW323 (rev 70) I copied the driver files off the motherboard cd into the Downloads folders, changed to the src directory within that, and tried make install as the readme file said to, but it has a couple of errors. The kernel dev files are installed, as I have installed the NVIDIA drivers already.
  19. Hi Aussie john. I dont get it either, I always am disconnected from the net/router when I install, normally I just plug in the cable and away I go. Im guessing as my board is fairly new that this is why.
  20. Thanks scarecrow, in my 2008 install it was easy to get compiz going...oh well progress I guess
  21. Hi guys, I have a fresh install of 2008.1 now, but I have no network. My motherboard cd has some linux drivers. In the lan folder I have: src folder atl1e.7 copying ldistrib.txt readme and in the src folder is: at.h at_ethtool.c at_hw.c at_hw.h at_main.c at_osdep.h at_param.c atl1e.mod.c kcompat.c kcompat.h kcompat_ethtool.c makefile Where do I go from here?
  22. Installed 2008.1, run XFdrake, could then start x windows. Perfect. Installed kernel devel, download and installed the nvidia driver. On my last system when I loaded x, it would display a big Nvidia symbol, it doesn't do it on this one, is this normal now?????? I installed from the free, 3 cd's and I cant get compiz running, packages are missing, so I'll have to down load these. Thanks all
  23. Ah, ok guys. Looks like I'll install 2008.1 as I have that on cd. Thanks all
  24. I ran XFdrake again, couldn't see this nvidia driver you mentioned. Any driver I select are met with the response of no device detected.. How can I fix this?
×
×
  • Create New...