Marrea

That said, it is a bug, which must be reported to Mandriva.

It already has - bugs 35255 and 37207, as mentioned in my posting of Feb 4 12:32 PM above. And people complain about Windows overwriting the mbr !!

Uh.. did you type all that when adjusting Grub?

Nope, although I am a touch typist I copy and paste too!!

... but can you edit the boot entries at the boot-screen with ntldr? Grub allows you to change them instantly (nice feature in case things go wrong. JMHO).

You can't edit ntldr's entries at the boot-screen but then you never have to because things never do go wrong with it. What it does is simply take you to the individual distro's Grub menu and if there is anything wrong once you have got to Grub of course you can then edit from there.

... the messy procedure of setting up the Windows bootloader to also boot into Linux.

On the question of relative messiness, here are my ntldr entries for booting the eight distros on my multi-boot Windows XP/Linux desktop:

c:\bootsec.man="Mandriva 2008"

c:\bootsec.fed="Fedora 8"

c:\bootsec.ubu="Ubuntu 6.06"

c:\bootsec.sux="openSUSE 10.3"

c:\bootsec.mep="SimplyMEPIS 6.0"

c:\bootsec.sus="openSUSE 10.2"

c:\bootsec.pcl="PCLinuxOS 2007"

c:\bootsec.zen="Zenwalk 4.4.1"

and here are the entries I would need to put in menu.lst if I used one of the distro’s Grub’s to boot them:

[entry for Mandriva 2008]

title linux

kernel (hd0,1)/boot/vmlinuz-desktop BOOT_IMAGE=linux root=/dev/hda2 resume=/dev/hda6 splash=silent vga=788

initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd-desktop.img

[entry for Fedora 8]

title Fedora (2.6.23.14-107.fc8)

root (hd0,2) kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.23.14-107.fc8 ro root=LABEL=/1 rhgb quiet initrd /boot/initrd-2.6.23.14-107.fc8.img

[entry for Ubuntu 6.06]

title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.15-28-386

root (hd0,4)

kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.15-28-386 root=/dev/hda5 ro quiet splash

initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.15-28-386

[entry for openSUSE 10.3]

title openSUSE 10.3 - 2.6.22.13-0.3

root (hd0,6)

kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22.13-0.3-default root=/dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_ST3160021A_4LJ044V0-part7 vga=0x31a resume=/dev/sda6 splash=silent showopts

initrd /boot/initrd-2.6.22.13-0.3-default

[entry for SimplyMEPIS 6.0]

title MEPIS at hda8, kernel 2.6.15-26-386

root (hd0,7)

kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.15-26-386 root=/dev/hda8 nomce quiet vga=normal

boot

[entry for openSUSE 10.2]

title openSUSE 10.2 - 2.6.18.8-0.3

root (hd0,8)

kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.18.8-0.3-default root=/dev/hda9 vga=0x31a resume=/dev/hda6 splash=silent showopts

initrd /boot/initrd-2.6.18.8-0.3-default

[entry for PCLinuxOS 2007]

title linux kernel (hd0,9)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=linux root=/dev/hda10 acpi=on resume=/dev/hda6 splash=silent vga=788 initrd (hd0,9)/boot/initrd.img

[entry for Zenwalk 4.4.1 - this being lilo would obviously have to be adapted for Grub]

image = /boot/vmlinuz

root = /dev/sda12

label = zenwalk

initrd = /boot/initrd.splash

read-only

[Entry for Windows XP]

title windows

root (hd0,0)

makeactive

chainloader +1

I know which set of entries I think is simpler and neater.

I have now run through a Mandriva 2008 installation again. As with my two previous installs on a desktop and a laptop it went straight from the Users screen:

to the messages (firstly) "Preparing bootloader..."

and (secondly) "Bootloader installation in progress"

When the summary screen appears (following the Monitor selection screen), /dev/hda is shown as the Grub location:

I click on Configure and change it to /dev/hda1:

And it says "Bootloader installation in progress" again, but on reboot I still get the Mandriva boot menu appearing - which I think proves that Grub is still on the mbr and has not moved to the root partition?

Well, as good as someone can feel after eating rotten fish by accident.

Nasty. :unsure:

Why don't you set XP as the default OS in Grub then? It only requires you to change one number. ;)

Yes, but set it as default in which Grub? As I said, XP is the only constant which is why I find it so convenient to use its bootloader for all the ever changing Linuxes.

(sorry, I didn't check bugzilla. Hehehe... when you are ill, the toilet has a higher priority)

Sorry to hear that. :mellow: Hope you are feeling a bit better now.

I am sorry to say it but you are incorrect about not being able to determine where the bootloader is placed in the initial segment that applys to the bootloader.

It simply means that you did not set it up correctly. ...... take the time to read and understand each step as you go

Hi AussieJohn

Thanks for your comments.

As I said above, I was not given the option to set it up. I believe something has changed with the latest Mandriva (2008) installation procedure and the bootloader is simply automatically installed to the mbr without the user being given a choice. And then when you alter this at the summary screen it has no effect whatsoever. I reproduce some excerpts from bug reports below:

http://http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=35255

Pascal "Pixel" Rigaux 2007-11-26 16:00:29 CEST -------

Mandriva installs on MBR without prompting when it detects "dos", "dummy" or "empty" bootloader.

Pascal "Pixel" Rigaux 2007-11-27 11:35:33 CEST -------

we install the bootloader *before* prompting the summary. At that time, the bootloader is already installed. When you change the configuration in the summary, it's too late for MBR.

http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=37207

GIreesh K. Bhat 2008-01-26 21:20 CEST

Told the installer to install graphical grub on /dev/hda3. It warned me and told me that I should have a bootmanager. It also asked me which hard disk I booted from. I selected hda. Turns out it installed grub on the MBR of hda rather than /dev/hda3 which I had explicitly told it to do.

GIreesh K. Bhat 2008-01-27 02:14:20 CEST -------

I find it astounding that Mandriva installs grub first and then asks you where you want it. That and not detecting another linux installation seems to be a serious issue in the installer..

In the case of dual booting with Windows, why would you want to apply the bootloader to other than the mbr

My main working operating system on each of my computers (except for one laptop which dual boots Linux only) is Windows XP. Windows is permanent, while the Linux distros come and go as the whim takes me. I am frequently chopping and changing different varieties to try them out. For instance, I have one particular desktop computer at the moment running Win XP alongside eight Linux distros (Mandriva 2008, Fedora 8, Ubuntu 6.06, SUSE 10.2, SUSE 10.3, Simply MEPIS 6.0, PCLOS 2007 and Zenwalk 4.4.1 - but any of these could change at any time).

Grub is exceedingly good at dual booting one Linux distro plus Windows but once you start adding extra distros, menu.lst has to be edited - as you say - to enable them all to be booted. Because Win XP is my main operating system and the one I simply must get into at all times without any problems I prefer to leave my mbr untouched. Having used the ntldr bootloader ever since I started using Linux five years ago I find it an absolute doddle, extremely quick and not at all messy. That's my preference, my choice, it works for me – just as Grub is your preference, which I respect, but I myself like using ntldr.

The day that ntldr is a better bootloader than Grub or even the older Lilo then I will eat my hat. I think a lot of other Linux users would as well.

Yes, no doubt they would, but I am not like a lot of other Linux users. I have no axe to grind re Windows. I just love using programmes on computers. The underlying operating system is of no consequence to me as long as it efficiently runs the applications I want to use. I run programmes on Windows, Mac and Linux: some paid for, some free, some proprietary, some open source. Sometimes I feel like using Photoshop Elements, other times I feel like using Gimp. Sometimes I want to use MS Office 2007, other times I want to use OOo. I find most programmes have their good and bad points (ie as regards ease of use, features, etc) and I enjoy having the choice.

It seems to me that you are trying to make something which is pretty easy such as dual booting into something really difficult.

Nope, I don't find dual booting at all difficult (as long as installers respect my wishes, that is ;) ).

With regards to multiple booting Linux OSs .... You then manually add the /boot/grub/menu.list details from each of the extra Linux OSs into the menu.list of the first Linux OS.

Yes, I'm well aware of this. I do it all the time on my dual boot Linux only laptop. But if you are dual/multi booting a Windows/Linux machine you then have the choice of using either Grub or ntldr. Using Grub you manually edit menu.lst. Using ntldr you manually edit boot.ini. Same result in the end, just a different way of doing it.

What makes you think that the Ubuntu Grub is anything different to the Mandriva Grub ???

I don't think Ubuntu's Grub is any different from Mandriva's. It's simply a matter of personal choice. On my dual boot Linux only laptop, Ubuntu is permanent and it is the other distro which changes. If I want Ubuntu's Grub in charge then Ubuntu's Grub in charge I intend to have. :)

Anyway, when I get a moment I will run through a Mandriva 2008 installation again in a vm v e r y slowly and take notes along the way to make quite sure I am not at fault regarding the bootloader location.

I will report back when I have done so.

Welcome aboard. :)

Many thanks for the welcome. Much appreciated.

The Mandriva CDs/DVD do(es) have a rescue option which allows to restore the XP or Grub bootloader with two clicks.

Ah, I wasn't aware of that, so thanks for drawing it to my attention. :)

The summary screen and its Grub placement always worked for me. What you could do is to simply bypass the gGub-installation step when it is shown first and install Grub later, at the summary screen.

How would I go about bypassing the Grub installation step? I can't remember what comes immediately before that step but in my case there was no obvious option to bypass - the screen saying "Installing bootloader" appeared immediately after the previous step and Grub was installed before I could do anything about it! :unsure:

During the Mandriva 2008 installation a screen comes up saying “Installing bootloader†without even asking first for a preferred location. When you get to the summary screen there is an option to change the location, so you use the drop-down box to change it from the MBR to, say, /dev/hda2. The “Installing bootloader†screen appears again, followed by the rest of the installation. However, on reboot, you find that Grub is not on the root partition but still on the MBR. Therefore the summary screen drop-down location box is obviously a dummy which does absolutely nothing – so why is it there?

I have had this happen to me twice with two separate installations on separate computers, and I know of someone else who also had his MBR hosed during installation.

This is extremely annoying for those of us (like me) who

a. have dual/multi-boot systems with Windows and like to use the ntldr as bootloader

and/or

b. have dual/multi-boot Linux only systems where one of the distros has Grub on the MBR and all the others have their Grubs on their root partitions. It may well be that you do not want Mandriva's Grub on the MBR, but for instance would prefer Ubuntu's Grub to be there.

I am generally pretty pleased with Mandriva 2008 (apart from all the usual quirks which need to be sorted out!) but am very reluctant to install it again on any other computer because I know I will have to get my Windows XP CD out and do a fixmbr which should not really be necessary. Also this procedure is not always guaranteed to work.

I have not had this problem in previous versions of Mandrake/Mandriva so why is this happening in the 2008 version?