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Will it effecting linux in a future?""Fritz chips&


Mandriva-user
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Listen, I'm not saying that the threat isn't potentially serious, but there has been a lot of active resistance to the implementation of this technology. Now that Congress has switched sides, it won't be as easy to have it mandated, and there are still economic forces to contend with...

 

Congress will not interfere in any way with the desires of Microsoft. I remind you it was the present administration, which now controls both houses, that allowed Microsoft to walk away without bearing any form of serious punishment. The settlement is a joke.

 

Against this backdrop, I am not very reassured that Congress will stand in the way of Intel et al as they shove Palladium/TCPA down our throats. When they do, kiss Linux goodbye. If you think this is a hasty conclusion, do a quick google and read Prof. Anderson's TCPA FAQs.

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In my opinion. Palladium or anything like it will fail totaly. No because of any philosofical belief but in the plain fact that " if man makes it man can break it".

You have to think of this as a type of lock. Given time( something we know we'll always have) the code can and will be broken or emulated. So since it can be( all things can be)hacked then the thing will have to have a way of being updated by software on the net. And since it can be reprogramed then it can be turned off or rendered useless. I don't think a million computer users in china are going to let this work for long. Just look at the Xbox. Even M$ is starting to give up on securing that one. And they have a billion dollers to just throw at the problem.

As soon a hack is out for it, and the company that is supposed to keep track of and update the code can't block the hack, then every corporate user out there that thought this was going to keep them safe will rethink their choice.

Can you imagine the lawsuits coming out of this," Use our chip and code and you'll never be hacked again". I for one would sue the pants off of the chipmaker for failing to keep their end of the deal. Billions could be lost if just one bank is hacked or just one credit card company is intruded on. Let alone if a code can be found to shutdown or lock up everyones computer with this in it. Go online, get your e-mail and BAM your computer is shut off untill you change the chip.

And M$ thought the slapper virus was bad this weekend.

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In my opinion. Palladium or anything like it will fail totaly. No because of any philosofical belief but in the plain fact that " if man makes it man can break it". 

You have to think of this as a type of lock. Given time( something we know we'll always have) the code can and will be broken or emulated. So since it can be( all things can be)hacked then the thing will have to have a way of being updated by software on the net. And since it can be reprogramed then it can be turned off or rendered useless. I don't think a million computer users in china are going to let this work for long. Just look at the Xbox. Even M$ is starting to give up on securing that one. And they have a billion dollers to just throw at the problem.

As soon a hack is out for it, and the company that is supposed to keep track of and update the code can't block the hack, then every corporate user out there that thought this was going to keep them safe will rethink their choice.

Can you imagine the lawsuits coming out of this," Use our chip and code and you'll never be hacked again". I for one would sue the pants off of the chipmaker for failing to keep their end of the deal. Billions could be lost if just one bank is hacked or just one credit card company is intruded on. Let alone if a code can be found to shutdown or lock up everyones computer with this in it. Go online, get your e-mail and BAM your computer is shut off untill you change the chip.

And M$ thought the slapper virus was bad this weekend.

 

We are going around in circles. I agree that the damn Fritz chip will not increase security. Most security breaches and privacy violations are inflicted by trusted sources.

 

Bypassing an instruction set built into a CPU will not be trivial. For the social and political implications of all of this, please read:

 

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

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Nice long winded article.

But the basic premic is still flawed. how is the update done? Since it MUST be done online then all the computers in the world that do not have the chip and ALL the chips made outside the US will NEVER get the updates so ALL the codes and serial numbers will still be on the trusted list.(There won't be a list to update) I.E. I can copy and modify then till my heart is content.

I will ALWAYS be able to buy a chip from outside the US no matter what law is passed.

 

The ONLY groups this will effect at first will be the in the buisiness sectors. So as soon as ONE application that they want doesn't make it to the list or is dropped for ANY reason then you will see this law tanked faster than it was made. Now since linux runs or will run almost half of the internet servers and many of the office machines in the next few years whats the first and second OS the BIG companies will want? And do you really think that they will be denied the right to use it?

 

And what about the Xbox/linux problem? Exactly what chip can't be replicated and replaced in a computer?

 

I realy do hope this law IS passed. It would be tantamount to taking my guns. They can have them when they take them from my cold dead fingers. America is NOT Great britan, Australlia or China. The market outcry will make everyone deaf.

 

Oh and I don't think our Prez or administration had anything to do with the M$ verdict. The whole case was a pile of junk writen up in a sloppy fashon. I'm not saying M$ was innocent of anything but even I could have shot holes in the case from a mile away. I see it everyday in multitudes of smaller cases, the prosicuters case is valid but weak so they take a lesser penalty just to get something for all their effort.

So in the end I don't think HE or the administration will have anything to do with making this come about. Anyone in congress who is talking about this is really just looking to shake someone down for a few million in campain contributions, no one wants this. No one BUT the recording industry and M$, who think of themselves as a publisher. If you want to find out who MIGHT vote for this look to who goes to who's parties and hobnobs.

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Hi;

 

@Yuyo: You have seen the problem of tcp-platforms really early. There are not many people who see that the system does not only makes it difficult to make (illegal ?) copies of somewhat.

 

A number of people here do not recognize the seriousness and the implications of TCPA/Palladium. Both Intel and AMD have committed to including the Fritz chip in the main processor. Please do read abou this. I have discussed it at length in the thread below and I suggest, humbly, that you give it a read.

 

You'll be glad you did.

http://forums.storagereview.net/viewtopic....&highlight=rape

 

The problem is _realy_ serious. A TCP-system can never be full documentated to its owner. You may read http://www.notcpa.org and follow the realated links. It encrypts your data in a way, that is hiding the data off you and gives the access to someone. Only with the sake of this someone you can even activate your TCP-system.

 

It is reported that fiest versions will be able to be swiched off. Truely ? What is with the _physical_presence_ ? I do not beleve them until a very well trusted organisation has reported that it _is_ possible to swich it off, wich is hard to do.

 

Never use systems wich are containing this stuff. Why? Maybe, you can deactivate it, but someone can activate it. It is only case of a bios routine to let someone have access to your computer. You can imagine what that means ?

 

makra

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I still fail to see how this will kill Linux. It may make online purchasing difficult for Linux-based systems, but Linux systems will still work with a "break once read everafter" file. Linux systems will still be able to run open-source software.

 

I, also see public reaction to this technology as being hostile. More so than to the Pentium chip ID. That was a fiasco for Intel. People will resist buying into this technology once the realize what it will do. Paladium and TCPA systems will not sell if users believe for a second that they can be forced into upgrade paths for eternity...

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You can`t do anything because the board is out now and it stay that way or you can get used computer in a future with out it . I`m not concern about that my next computer will run only linux os :wink: :D .

 

Ciao mandrake-user

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That was partly my motivation to get my current system,...

 

But I think the threat is really overblown. OSes and chipsets WILL be available that will not implement this thing. They will likely sell much better than the alternative. Once people realize that "Big Brother's" hand can reach into your PC and delete data or encrypt data that belongs to you and is your property, they will think twice about TCPA and Paladium.

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Is there a way to find out when they shipped the first fish chip on the board is it possible to find out.

 

Ciao

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Hi there;

 

When I see the words of "MandrakeUser" i see that the problem in this case is not seen by most of users. It is not the case that linux may not run. It is not the case that you cannot copy programs easy.

 

This, my friends, is Big Brother is knocking on our door.

 

This was the first attempt to control us by technical meanings, I remember in my life (I am quite old enough to say). And many other knockings will be heared. IF WE DO NOT WATCH THEY PUT IT ON US.

 

Cos this is basic problem, do not make any compromisses. Do not let have them part off your life. You may not use systems where you cannot scrape this off the board and examine the BIOS byte by byte. Cos the bios can have additional back doors. If you are not absolutelly fit in electronics and in assamler, you may never use them. Don't be afraid, just dont make compromisses. For me, it means, when I cannot find any systems without TCPA, then I use old systems as long as they go.

 

The handwriting of them is at hand. They try to tie up absolute control over everything we say, write, think, love and hate. Next could be a law to control the net by technical meanings and hard laws (you remember: selling a system, wich comes without TCPA, they would have punished with up to 5 years jail). This law is fought off. Next could be the money. A number, tatooed under the skin, or a transponder chip implantated, will ease the money traffic enourously. And it will give the Alliance (another alliance then TCPA) the total control.

 

The net is trying to find a way out of the danger of observation. They try to build up a highly decentral and anonymous network. It is good to support their work. Specially mentioned Ian Clark, who started one project http://freenetproject.org/

http://news.com.com/2008-1082-899662.html?tag=fd_nc_1 is an article wich describes the urgence, importance and need for this project.

 

Vote for freedom in the network.

 

makra

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makra

 

When I see the words of "MandrakeUser" i see that the problem in this case is not seen by most of users. It is not the case that linux may not run. It is not the case that you cannot copy programs easy.  

 

This, my friends, is Big Brother is knocking on our door.  

 

This was the first attempt to control us by technical meanings, I remember in my life (I am quite old enough to say). And many other knockings will be heared. IF WE DO NOT WATCH THEY PUT IT ON US.  

 

Cos this is basic problem, do not make any compromisses. Do not let have them part off your life. You may not use systems where you cannot scrape this off the board and examine the BIOS byte by byte. Cos the bios can have additional back doors. If you are not absolutelly fit in electronics and in assamler, you may never use them. Don't be afraid, just dont make compromisses. For me, it means, when I cannot find any systems without TCPA, then I use old systems as long as they go.  

 

The handwriting of them is at hand. They try to tie up absolute control over everything we say, write, think, love and hate. Next could be a law to control the net by technical meanings and hard laws (you remember: selling a system, wich comes without TCPA, they would have punished with up to 5 years jail). This law is fought off. Next could be the money. A number, tatooed under the skin, or a transponder chip implantated, will ease the money traffic enourously. And it will give the Alliance (another alliance then TCPA) the total control.  

 

The net is trying to find a way out of the danger of observation. They try to build up a highly decentral and anonymous network. It is good to support their work. Specially mentioned Ian Clark, who started one project http://freenetproject.org/  

http://news.com.com/2008-1082-899662.html?tag=fd_nc_1 is an article wich describes the urgence, importance and need for this project.  

 

Vote for freedom in the network.  

 

makra

 

You and everyone I got only one copy of office 2000 and the rest I have legal software,so if the law will knock on my door,I will tell them come in.

I have nothing to hide.

 

Best regards Mandrake-user

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makra

 

You and everyone I got only one copy of office 2000 and the rest I have legal software,so if the law will knock on my door,I will tell them come in.

I have nothing to hide.

 

Best regards Mandrake-user

 

Yeah. That I mean with not seeing the problem. You can imagine when someone on a hidden list can (defined by TCPA-definition table) have full access to your data ?

 

Not a software problem, but a security problem, indeed.

 

marcus

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makra

 

Yeah. That I mean with not seeing the problem. You can imagine when someone on a hidden list can (defined by TCPA-definition table) have full access to your data ?  

 

Not a software problem, but a security problem, indeed.  

 

marcus

 

You talking about security problem will never solved there will be a hole always it is matter of time to find the leak in firewall.

 

Ciao

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well.

 

The design of tcp-boxes is ill. For you it will be partly undocumentated. There are more then few possibilities to drag data off your tcp-box without your knowledge. Why ? You are second levil user at this box, defined by hardware. Think about linux what you can do as root. Well, user can check the tasklist. But that fails, when bios is "proper" configured. Therefor superuser can start tasks wich are hidden. Well, you may say it TCP-components are able to be swiched off. But who really knows ?

 

Firewall ? Any user program can be stopped or paused by root, or be configured ill by root. If superuser want to query something, he can swich on this port for a few seconds without your knowledge. Your Firewall IS an end user process.

 

Computers are stuffed with kind of technology, you cannot check so easy. How long will it take to dissassanble and understand the whole bios ? How long it takes to etch the TCP components and to understand how it works ?

 

So I cannot answer questinons like is it swichable ? Is NSA planning a BIG DEAL ? Is it planned to sabotate platforms just by typing a shell command or mouseclick ? No one knows, and no one can check it.

 

So it is a thing of trust. Query whom you trust then. Even that you not know, because this list confidential, it is said. So, you may trust anyone in a list wich is not documentated to end user. That is your choice.

 

This not with me.

 

makra

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