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AussieJohn

A Lemon

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I just want to put in my two cents (US) worth since I've quietly been following this thread.

 

I installed MDK9.2 and had some very difficult issues to get it to work with my laptop-unfriendly-to-linux legacy-free bios Toshiba 5005-S507.

 

On this laptop, installing MDK 9.0 and 9.1 both required a recompiled kernel (which scared the living daylights out of me because I'm a total non-techie), but I had great help and encouragement from one of the moderators in this user forum that "held my hand" and got me through it.

 

I've had totally different issues with MDK9.2 than with the others, but at least I didn't have to recompile a kernel. I just had to do an updated kernel and kernel-source and download the nvidia file .run to reinstall.

 

And...I had great help again from two of the great moderators of this forum. I didn't whine or gripe once --as I had done in the past --because I had faith in the wonderful forum and all the super people that are active on it. I finally was patient for once, asked intelligent questions, and got the answers I needed. And now--

 

toshiba_acpi is working beautifully

 

For the first time ever, I didn't have to do anything complicated or get help from anybody to get my Linksys WPC 11 wireless card to work.

 

I used Mandrake Control Center and DrakConnect configured it automatically and within a couple of short minutes I was on the internet with my wireless card set on eth1 (since during the installation last week I had a cat5 cable connected from my Linskys router to the laptop and the built-in ethernet card is set on eth0).

 

The only issue I have left, which worked fine in MDK9.0 and 9.1 is my USBmouse...I have both a Kensington Pocket Pro wired and wireless mice. Yet I'm being patient that this too will be solved.

 

Soon I'll be installing Libranet 2.8.1, Xandros 2.0, and SUSE 9.0 (which got uninstalled when I installed MDK9.2...on purpose). I want SUSE 9.0 to be installed last because I simply LOVE its GUI GRUB to boot up in. (It's just that right now acpi=on freezes everything up in SUSE 9.0, and I need acpi on this laptop for sound).

 

AND--I might even add Fedora Core 2.0 when it comes out...I'm too shy to try Core 1.0 yet.

 

So....9.2 may not be for everybody. Some may have to go back to 9.1 or 9.0, or even go to a totally different distro.

 

I'm still a totally non-geek, non-techie, but for me it's a nice hobby during my free time to tool around with a few good distros, learn their quirks and how to solve them...therefore, learning more about linux, command lines, vi editor (and others),

DE's and WM's.

 

Each distro has its own cool aspects, such as the updates that SUSE does during the installation for you: the free MS fonts that download and the Nvidia drivers with 3d acceleration.

 

In Libranet 2.8.1 it's the XAdminmenu, which will take all of two minutes to get the MS fonts, Realplayer, Flash, etc. downloaded and working.

 

Xandros is a brilliant distro that on most hardware, just automatically works. It is more sophisticated than Lycoris and a lot more friendly to its clientele than the money-grubbing Lindows. Its wallpapers that come with it are as beautiful as those from www.webshots.com (Xandros has a great wallpaper that is a photo of about six or seven penguins on an iceberg).

 

Yes, I get impatient, frustrated, and sometimes throw a fit when a quirk in a distro drives me up a wall, but some of the linux distros' user forums have the nicest people in the world on them to help. It's rare to get tangled up with arrogant or crazy people on them. I find them for the most part very patient, friendly, and extremely helpful.

 

So hang in there everybody. Each version as some improvements...like 4 steps forward...and some disappointments...2 steps back, but Linux distros have come a long way overall from two years ago.

 

Cheers,

 

Richard L.

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"Let the winers complain. Let them stay on windows."

 

You're not serious? You don't think it's enough that the drones out there believe Microsoft's drivel, so you want me to go back there and start telling everyone that Linux is crap as well, just to make sure the message gets home?

 

I have no idea why you feel personally insulted or offended. I was just stating something in general.

 

I care for those people whom I think are ready to move to linux and have the right mentality. Ready can imho be determined by reading this story and making up your mind: my story on switching to linux without failing and having the right mentality to learn to use linux.

 

Anyone who doesn't find himself in the right situation according to the first article (wants things that linux can currently not offer) or doesn't understand how to solve problems on linux/FLOSS (more or less according to the second story) and doesn't actually want to put in an effort, can AFAIAC stay on windows. And is possibly a whiner. The other way around: whiners are quite likely those people who don't fit into the category that is ready for linux....

 

It is up to you to determine with what I say here if you fit into the whiner category.

If you do, go back to windows. Linux is not for you. Or: you are not ready for linux.

 

With supporters like that Linux doesn't need any enemies!

 

Painting me as the friend that makes that linux doesn't need enimies... Hmmmm...

Yeah right, let's see.... Nope, doesn't compile:

{unmatched argument}

on my system...

 

Be realistic. Linux today needs more people so hardware support gets improved through market momentum. But you know what, with Brazil, China, somewhat India, that doesn't have to be with major growth in the US or Europe.

 

Next to that, most people can't properly install and configure windows. But there, they know they just have to deal with it. On linux, they curse linux. In so many cases the problems are due to user errors and ignorance. Sure there are plenty of bugs. But the only way to get rid of them is to file bug reports, not whine.

(Yes Gowator, I know the upgrade function in the install sucks. It's all over my site, it's all over this forum. We all know. But until Mandrake fixes it it will be one of the weak points; besides, in plenty of cases it does seem to work; my guess: it depends on whether one has installed some non-mandrake packages or done other weird stuff.. if you can do upgrade, you can do a clean install, why not.)

 

On the whole, the linux community needs to get those people on board that will help improve linux, and that are capable and willing to help others out with their issues. Not just anyone who would like to try/have something other than windows but doesn't want to spend any time adjusting, learning etc..

 

Only with preinstalled preconfigured machines will Joe User be able to use linux. Just as with MSWin or Mac.

We are not there yet.

 

And the only reason I want to get there is to be able to go out and buy a nice laptop that works well with linux. As a consequence, I do care about getting people to move to linux. But not just anyone, the brave must pave the way, and the path is not paved well enough for all. It is easy enough for more than 10 maybe even 20% of all current computer users. But they must make the choice, change always costs time and effort. Pushing someone to linux is not the way.

 

 

 

When I see people like linux_learner and lawsonrc, I think: that's who we need. BTW No offence, Deke, I was really speaking in general, I didn't follow your story, so will not comment on you.

 

BTW lawsonrc, you do know that in Mdk you can also use grub, right...?

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Thanks arTRee for your kind compliments about me.

 

BTW, I chose GRUB during the installation, but when I rebooted, Lilo still came up. Then I used MCC and changed to GRUB there. When I rebooted, I got the dreaded black screen with L88 and the 88's repeated about 25 times. (I think it was 88, it was a number in the 80's.)

 

Since I didn't know how to fix this, I took thirty minutes to re-install (no big deal) and just stayed with Lilo since MDK's Lilo doesn't play nice with the GRUB switch. :screwy:

 

Was I supposed to reboot in command mode and type my username and password? Would that have switched me to GRUB? :unsure:

 

Thanks again arTRee.

 

Richard L.

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Yes Gowator, I know the upgrade function in the install sucks. It's all over my site, it's all over this forum. We all know. But until Mandrake fixes it it will be one of the weak points; besides, in plenty of cases it does seem to work; my guess: it depends on whether one has installed some non-mandrake packages or done other weird stuff.. if you can do upgrade, you can do a clean install, why not.)

 

Yeah, I know but even a cosmetic upgrade (which Mandrake have been making lots of) would be better. Just a splash screen warning saying if this upgrade fail's then your likely to lose everything. Or even better a strong suggestion to move/backup the DATA before trying the upgrade.

 

My main worry is that people who haven't found mandrakeusers.org not those who have <G>. (or your site aRtee)

 

 

To me its about responsibility and Mandrake owe the linux community for everything from the kernel to 90% of the apps. We owe Mandrake for giving us a great distro too.

 

Far to to many people get a bad first impression of linux. Far too many don't come back and that is a big shame. I want Mandrake to succeed but some times I just feel like :wall:

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Richard,

 

don't know, if you don't mind, stick with lilo. I used lilo, then grub at some point, then back to lilo since it worked well (for some time, only grub could jump to partitions beyond 8GB on the harddisk) and grub users had some problems.

 

Don't know why one would prefer one over the other if the one you have just works.

 

If it doesn't, open a new topic and I'm sure there will be people with the right solution.

 

 

Gowator,

True, lots of things to improve. This is one of them, preferably by making it work properly. It's bad marketing if you put such a warning in the install...

 

I don't think that far too many people get a bad first impression. I think far too many people have the wrong expectations.

Sorry, if you did not make sure to buy supported hardware and then blame linux, it's your own damn mistake.

 

I'm not sure if far too many don't come back; those who have the right mentality will, and those who don't shouldn't until they can buy preinstalled preconfigured machines.

 

Mandrake should try to get more deals with preinstalled systems. HP have some 9.1 systems. Now it is time to get such systems into the shops and get some decent laptops out there too.

Hardware support on especially laptops is still likely problematic, we are going to have to be patient; IBM endorsing linux on the (corporate) desktop is a big thing, they have laptops there aplenty. Don't hold your breath, but realise it won't be an eternity anymore.

 

I would like Mandrake to succeed as well. But I choose not to worry; if they don't, the distro will live on in any case.

 

edited by bvc

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lawsonrc,

 

buggy installer I guess. I've always had probs getting the installer to install grub so I either tell it not to install a bootloader or let it install lilo and install grub myself.

Was I supposed to reboot in command mode and type my username and password? Would that have switched me to GRUB?
no it wouldn't have. You basically just boot normal to gui if you like, open a terminal, su to root, and do

 

lilo -u

urpmi grub

grub-install '(hd0)'

or

grub-install /dev/hda

 

to put grub on the mbr.

 

Or even better a strong suggestion to move/backup the DATA before trying the upgrade.
shouldn't that be a given? shouldn't have to be told that in any case.

 

many who find us here do because of there upgrade probs......too late.

 

Bottom line?.....there needs to be a warning about upgrading, period.

 

I'm not sure if far too many don't come back; those who have the right mentality will, and those who don't shouldn't until they can buy preinstalled preconfigured machines.
I agree.

 

Gowater, is it you that says you don't like the constant comparison between linux and windows? I think it is. I understand how you'd think that, I did at one time. The fact is, like it or not MS is the twisted standard and not the true standard. Linux will fight that til it beats it. That's all, and nothing else will rid the constant comparison. Most trying linux for the first time have no clue what to expect. Windows is all they've ever known, so it's all they have to compare. They will compare. This is when the rt or wrong mentality shines through. This is the moment of truth if you will. It's the moment that decides if you got what it takes. It's how it is for now and far better than it was 3 years ago. Slowly but surely linux rises and ms falls. Lets hope the trend continues. No worries! :thumbs:

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just a quicky

"Sorry, if you did not make sure to buy supported hardware and then blame linux, it's your own damn mistake."

From the original thread aussiejohn did a lot of checking and it worked faultlessly with 9.1 for him.

It was the 9.2 that screwed it up.

But also in general, (back to win/lin) but a lot of people probably don't realise for thier first time. I know aRTee advocates making sure even if your a windows user which is a good policy but unfortunately works and Works seem to be two seperate things. (i.e. partially working etc.) Also the majority of things can be forced to work by someone experienced with time on their hands. However many are best guestimates by chipset etc. OR like I did with netgear, just think Ah, yeah Netgear do linux drivers!!

 

edited by bvc

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Okay, bvc, this is what I did (and didn't do):

 

I was too afraid to do the "lilo -u" command because I feared that if I uninstalled lilo and then got some kind of error messages when trying to install grub, I would then not be able to boot at all into Mandrake9.2 again. Thus I'd have to do a re-install again and lose all the work I've done for acpi and other things.

 

Here is what I did as root in a terminal (I added the double quotes in this message for easier reading):

 

urpmi grub

"Everything already installed"

grub-install 'hdo'

"The file /boot/grub/stage 1 not read correctly"

grub-install /dev/hda

"/dev/hda does not have any corresponging BIOS drive.

 

Since you are familiar with my laptop, you know that it is a Legacy Free Bios laptop. I've been able to use grub before with MDK9.1 on this machine.

 

What next?

 

In advance, thanks! [i guess we should have started another thread for this in another forum, eh?]

 

Richard L.

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Xandros is a brilliant distro that on most hardware, just automatically works. It is more sophisticated than Lycoris and a lot more friendly to its clientele than the money-grubbing Lindows. Its wallpapers that come with it are as beautiful as those from www.webshots.com (Xandros has a great wallpaper that is a photo of about six or seven penguins on an iceberg).

Ah yeah, I am considering buying it, seems like a worthy project to support.

 

I checked out their website and they seem to offer *a lot* of value for their money. Actually I think Xandros is one of those distro's you do not have to know a lot about Linux to get it working/make it work for you. And if it does, it seems the Xandros support if far more professional than e.g. MandrakeExpert (even if you are paying. My guess is that on MandrakeExpert, everyone is just too darn busy with other projects/work to give decent answers).

 

On a side note, the text (sales pitch ;) ) on Xandros' website is one of the best I have aver seen on any website: concrete, to the point, honest, concise, ....

 

A distro based on Debian that requires no constant tweaking (and if it does, offers good support), offers free upgrades, includes Crossover Office and has good wallpapers :jester: is a winner to me! Version 2.1 is shipping this month I read.

 

On the other hand, without all of the issues present in Mandrake, I probably will not get that valuable experience learning Linux. I know it's kind of a paradox, but think about it: you learn a lot from fixing things and from your own mistakes. Mandrake gives you plenty of opportunity for that... ok so I'm only being half serious here.

 

 

End of rant

 

Darkelve

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You're right, Darkelve, that in other distros, you DO learn a lot from fixing things and from your own mistakes.

 

I still like to have Xandros 2.x added along with other distros so that I can just sit back and enjoy computing as a break from fixing/configuring. So since this laptop has a 40GB harddrive and is now "Windows free in 2003". I am eventually going to have the following distros on it:

Mandrake 9.2, Libranet 2.8.1, Xandros 2.x, and SUSE 9.2. I may add Fedora Core 2 when it comes out and fixes its bugs, or I may just put it on the second hard drive of my desktop.

 

So maybe you'll kick back and try Xandros 2.x, I hope, without replacing your MDK. If you have room, make a separate partition to install Xandros and try it!

 

Cheers,

 

Richard L.

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Hey, I have 80GB to split up and one WinXP to delete (well, not yet, but I can see it coming)!

 

What can I say?

 

Mandy was my first love, and she will be my last... will be in my boot menu from the future... and my bootmenu from the past...

 

sorry, got a little carried away there! :thumbs:

Edited by Darkelve

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I was too afraid to do the "lilo -u" command because I feared that if I uninstalled lilo and then got some kind of error messages when trying to install grub, I would then not be able to boot at all into Mandrake9.2 again. Thus I'd have to do a re-install again and lose all the work I've done for acpi and other things.

don't worry. you can still boot on the CD1, rescue mode. there you can reinstall a bootloader.

 

roland

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