spinynorman Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 (edited) PCLinuxOnline links to this critical ArsTechnica article. This release, within weeks of being unveiled, is almost up to a half a compact disc of updates. This is unacceptable in today's Linux market, and at this rate Mandrake will not survive long. We've all heard the "Mandrake is dying," yet somehow the company has managed to survive. Times are changing however: SuSE's latest release that is new and stable. Fedora is around the corner, and plenty of Mandrake users have learned enough about Linux to move on to Gentoo or Debian. This release is just plain bad, and a "Mandrake will kill your CD-ROM" reputation is not going to make things any easier on them. :( :( :( [Edited to restore the original title] Edited November 2, 2003 by spinynorman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmpatrick Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 What a bunch of BS. If you have broadband running the updates is no big deal and try running debian or gentoo w/o broadband :blink: And try installing anything on suse that's not include on their cds; what fun. At least Mandrake is promptly fixing the stuff. With linux, updates are a way of life; get over it. Just plain stupid to complain about 300MB of updates vs 150MB for another distro. This "just plain bad" release is running great for me and many others. Did this guy even bother to install and try it before bashing it? I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 I think people need to put up, or shut up. http://linuxiso.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t...1628&highlight= tired of whiney babies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 "This is unacceptable in today's Linux market, and at this rate Mandrake will not survive long. " Kind of depends what you think linux's market is. If it's becoming more "Business" like then being consistent matters. You need to think about what your customer wants. Small businesses don't have an IT department, linux looks good next to windows because of the scope it offers, cost etc, most can probably cope with windows because they have had to. There has to be fairly strong incentives to get used to another operating system. Muckng about with downloads its not everybody's ideal way of spending time and sticking in a cd and just loading has a certain appeal. There is also the slightly deranged idea that something downloaded can't be as something in a nice box. Its a sad fact of life that you have to cope with people you think are idiots. To survive Mandrake has to operate on several levels and be ready to change. There is no point having the best mousetrap if you give no thought as to how to tell people, especially those in numpty land. "tired of whiney babies." usually thers a good reson for whiney babies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 "tired of whiney babies." usually thers a good reson for whiney babies.more like rarely jester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngmug Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 With linux, updates are a way of life; get over it. Um, aren't updates a way of life with Windows also? As for the 1/2 CD of updates, loook at Microsoft's service packs. Just for the base operating system they run between 300 to 400mb in full. With Mandrake (and other distributions) this 1/2 CD also contains updates to the accompanying software. Thus, if you are going to complain about update size, make sure to apply it evenly. In addition, what versions are the distros whipping with? If Debian and SuSE are using a minor version or two behind there will be fewer patches to apply (since the newer releases are the ones getting the most concentrated work). To get them up to the same versions as Mandrake, it might be a lot larger download. Need I also mention the speed at which these things are fixed? Try getting as fast of a response with a typical vendor. (An opinion of a user of both Windows and Linux) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ral Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 (edited) Me I am kind of dissapointed with then number of updates. I am not on broadband, so downloading them will take a fair amount of time. Windows does have large updates, but a 300MB-400MB update (Windows 2000) is for something almost 4 years old and not something new release. I have used Mandrake 8.2 and 9 (but never did update them) and RedHat 8.2 and 9 (which I did update). I was surprsied by the number of updates in RedHat which were much less than 300MB's. But I think one issue here is not the number of or size of updates. Correct me if I am wrong, but most linux updates are really minor ones which you probably can avoid making with little risk while Windows updates tend ot be mandatory because they are to cover serious flaws. But it would be nice to see a release that nee not be updated so often or so much. Since a new version is released every six months... there should be no need to update at all. With linux, updates are a way of life; get over it. Hope some develops a "simple" Linux, fewer packages, fewer featues but fewer updates. Not cutting edge, but all tried, tested and without bugs. It would be nice to be able just to use a PC for a long time without needing to worry about maintianing it. Edited November 2, 2003 by ral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphitus Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 With linux, updates are a way of life; get over it. Um, aren't updates a way of life with Windows also? As for the 1/2 CD of updates, loook at Microsoft's service packs. Just for the base operating system they run between 300 to 400mb in full. With Mandrake (and other distributions) this 1/2 CD also contains updates to the accompanying software. Thus, if you are going to complain about update size, make sure to apply it evenly. Yeah, Micro$oft needs a whole CD almost to update a browser. It would be nice if Mandrake updated the ISO that they make available for download, and keep updating it, when it is available. When It was meant to be available before the end of October.... It's the 2nd November. Maybe even send out Club members 3 update discs in the first three months... They really need to fix their business strategy. And I wont be buying 10.0 if it's anything like this. iphitus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphitus Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 With linux, updates are a way of life; get over it. Hope some develops a "simple" Linux, fewer packages, fewer featues but fewer updates. Not cutting edge, but all tried, tested and without bugs. It would be nice to be able just to use a PC for a long time without needing to worry about maintianing it. Debian Stable. Tried, Tested and stable. Few updates. Not quite cutting edge, but it works well. No real need for regular maintinence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 Debian Stable. Tried, Tested and stable. Few updates. Not quite cutting edge, but it works well. No real need for regular maintinence. headbang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieJohn Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 Hello all. Mandrake is dying ????. I suppose Hell is currently freezing over at the moment as well !!!!!! java script:emoticon(':D') Has anyone given any thought that maybe the reason so many upgrades seem necessary at the moment is perhaps because Mandrake is acting far more quickly and precisely than instead of doing it over months as used to be the case. And all you Debian and Gentoo fans, I would like to ask why are you so prominent on this Mandrake website if you regard them (debian and gentoo) as so superior to Mandrake. Frankly I get sick of having to find my way through this kind of mush just to read the Mandrake stuff that I am interested in. If there is no similar debian or gentoo discussion websites ( if there aren't any then that must tell you something ) then you could always use JustLinux where you can discuss all OSs. What I am saying does not run counter to free speech as some of you might claim ( an argument cop-out ). This is a Mandrake Users interest website and some of the Moderators should know better and set a better example. And I do not denegrate the excellent contribution they (and others ) make to our better use and understanding of MANDRAKE. Cheers. John (69yrs young) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonMage Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 Now AussieJohn, be civil. There are a quite a few of us who "graduated" from mandrake to other distro such as debian, gentoo, slackware, etc. Yet, they all come back to this place because we are filled with nice people who are willing to help :) We are a Mandrake Users Board, not a Mandrake Only Board. In fact, some people goes back to mandrake after trying other distros, or use Mandrake for their primary desktop and other distro for something else. The fact is, all linux users are lucky mandrake exists. It is still have the right balance (imo) of ease-of-use, complexity, bleeding edge software, freedom and stability. Linuxindo still uses Mandrake (8.2) for their classes, even though they can choose something else (let's face it, knoppix is a lot easier to run than mandrake, but you don't "learn" linux by running knoppix) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphitus Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 Hello all. Mandrake is dying ????. I suppose Hell is currently freezing over at the moment as well !!!!!! java script:emoticon(':D') Has anyone given any thought that maybe the reason so many upgrades seem necessary at the moment is perhaps because Mandrake is acting far more quickly and precisely than instead of doing it over months as used to be the case. And all you Debian and Gentoo fans, I would like to ask why are you so prominent on this Mandrake website if you regard them (debian and gentoo) as so superior to Mandrake. Frankly I get sick of having to find my way through this kind of mush just to read the Mandrake stuff that I am interested in. Man! relax! Mandrake was the first Linux I used. 8.2 Bluebird. I'm now on Debian Sid/Unstable. I would never give a newbie debian, i have promoted Linux to friends and each who has agreed to try it has been given Mandrake CDs. And did I say Debian was superior to Mandrake? Nope. They both have their advantages. Mandrake is easily the superior for a newbie. Debian, a bit harder, good for the advanced/not so newbie. Are you saying, I should leave this board now that I use debian? but it is still linux I can still help people. The distros may have a different name and some subtle features/extras but it is still linux. iphitus ~ a proud debian user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 I think I understand you AussieJohn. After all the rows on Mandrake, not to say bashing, in PcLinuxOnline and even OSNews, I think Mandrake supporters are getting a little touchy these time. At least it's how I'm feeling. Sorry AussieJohn if I've missed your point. by roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieJohn Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 Hi Roland. You seem to be the only one to have understood the meaning of my post. I did not suggest anyone leave just because they were not actually using Mandrake. I appreciate your efforts to help Mandrake users but I am a little sick of constant promotion of debian and gentoo as being superior and that Mandrake is really only for the likes of us who are not smart enough and called newbies. Like Mandrake is for newbies but if you want to no longer be considered a newbie then you have to migrate to one these other OSs. It is called elitism and if you can't see that then that is sad. I would have expected Moderators to be the first to show against elitism by example. As a dedicated Mandrake user I CAN handle criticism of Mandrake because Mandrake was my choice as was coming to this site. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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